getting into Scope SDK?

[Sextant]

Hello everyone,
I'm seriously starting to think about getting into Scope SDK. Since it's a significant investment (both in purchase and training time), I'd like the SDK gurus on this forum to give me their opinion on the feasibility of the main projects that motivate me and make me want to step into development.

1/ An advanced quantizer for Modular IV. I believe this is the last major gap in our modular platform. I'd like to develop something similar to what can be found in the Eurorack module Ornament & Crime: the ability to select from a list of scales (Dorian, Ionian, etc.), including extended scales spanning two or more octaves (such as in Olivier Messiaen's modes of limited transposition). The ability to choose which notes of the scale can be played and to hide the others. The possibility to modulate the tonic of the scale in real time (e.g., with a sequencer, an LFO, etc.).

2/ An advanced version of the Waldorf oscillator with the ability to change the waveform in real time (not just its looping zone) without clicks or temporal shifts. The ability to synchronize oscillators, allowing for a master and slave setup. The ability to perform audio-rate FM while maintaining pitch stability.

3/ I do a lot of additive synthesis, and I have several fairly advanced additive synths built in Modular IV (special thanks to CWM additive tools!). The issue is that these patches are very resource-intensive (when using 16 partials, which seems to be the minimum for serious work). As a result, I can only really use them in monophonic mode. I was wondering if the optimization possibilities offered by Scope SDK would allow me to turn these synths into standalone "devices" so that they run with fewer resources and better polyphony.

I precise that I haven't any codage skill and a very low level in math (I'm a musician, not a scientist )

[fra77x2]

Hi,

About your specific objects from my personal experience I am not really that confident. Perhaps others have found solutions that I missed.

a. midi was difficult to work with. The sequencer atoms were broken or too complex to be used. I ve build a sequencer from scratch but was very complicated. I have been able to work with midi for simple things after years... not worthy What can be done in c in half an hour may require months in circuit level for trivial things

b. working with wavetables was a no-go for me. I have been able to use the waldorf osc for COS and VOID after a lot of trial and error

c. 16 sine oscilators use some dsp cycles. I cant retrieve from memory exactly but do not excpect 16 voices on a single dsp

This said I consider my investment of time in scope sdk a good one. I use it in my music, use it for production. I have hundreds of devices made that i rarely use but I am trained enough now to use anything. It lets you focus on the signals. It is very well made stable and reliable

If you care I offer an sdk tutorial via skype and you can also check my sdk tutorials videos on youtube.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o-OtlKemgfs

Regards,
John

[Sextant]

Thank you John!

For the quantizer, I'm not thinking about midi things or sequencers. Just a most advanced one than standard modular or Flexor quantizer, with addition of scales principally. It can be approximate with some flexors tools but in a manner that is not optimal

[fra77x2]

Isn't a quantizer a module that takes the midi input and forces it on some type of regular beat? So you have to take the midi input store and trigger the events on quantised timing. To change scales you have to manipulate each event to conform with certain scales. It is possible but not sure how much difficult.

I use c for such programming. Actually I am making a humanizer that imposes human feel on quantized data.

Or a quantizer just takes a value and quantizes it to some pre set values and you like to swap between different sets of values so to experiment with different scales?

I have to use the modular for years so I can't remember.

[Sextant]

A quantizer that take a CV signal e. g. from an LFO and adjust it on just notes

[fra77x2]

Working with arrays in the sdk is not very user friendly. Most of them are used for panel stuff like holding names and they do not work at audio rate. With some will a lot of things can be done but i am not sure it worths the time. I use the sdk for its ready atoms which are similar to the ones the modular offers. I have made hundreds of devices but not a quantizer. Right now I can't thing of a way to make it in the sdk, but it should be feasible, (I can't think about it right now because i am developing my modular synth for android tablets and I am kind of exhausted mentally)

There is not really sdk optimization under the hood, it is similar to modular, but you can find some lighter versions of the modules in the modular because modules at the modular may include modulation options and stuff. I have used it to prototype oscillators of my own invention that use the saturated arithmetic the dsps offer. ( this is one of the integrals of scope sound )

For additive synthesis programming because controlling many parameters at once is not very straight forward or easy in the sdk I am not sure it is the best environment.

But scope is very interesting for creative additive synthesis. I have made an 11 partials sawtooth by using the natural harmonic series. Scope has a very nice fm oscillator that is a sine with adjustable many parameters like sync, phase, freq, detune. (it is included in the modular) Very good for fm and additve synthesis patches.

[Sextant]

Thanks fra77x2 what you say really help me

[fra77x2]

You are welcome.

I checked the eurack module you mentioned
A quantizer is a map table. One example is how we map the 127 midi notes to midi frequencies. You take the val to quantize you divide it in a number of steps and then you create a table that contains whatever these values should be. You can do microtonal alternate scales check how fractals or chaotic attractors "sound", logistic maps, shift registers. It wouldn't surprise me if most of these sound similar at the end of the day so too many names for noise and randomization.

Anyway cool project. I am not impressed by the eurorack module ( you need a technician just for the quantiser) but yes why not.

In the sdk there is a curve editor but i don't remember if it can be used for such a functionality. Probably not. You can't really compute data or import like you can in a programming language.

I have used reaktor for some microtonal experimentation many years ago. I think it had the functionality to import tables.

If you have reaktor you can try import your tables and create your CV there and send it as audio to scope.
For total confusion you can send from scope an lfo back to reaktor...

I am using some times reaktor together with scope so for me it is not that strange.

[Sextant]

This operation can be roughly achieved by combining the Freq2Note, NotetoFreq and ScaleTunig from Flexor modules, but in a way that isn't really suited to basic quantization operations (in particular because Scale Tuning doesn't allow you to “forbid” certain notes). Bringing these three modules together and modifying them slightly in a single module would give you a perfectly decent quantiser.

[fra77x2]

There is some analysis in the user manual of the eurorack module you mentioned

https://ornament-and-cri.me/user-manual ... ermaschine

It seems that originally it is a shift register application. In the sdk there are sample and hold modules and basic math and boolean modules.
I can't search it now more but i will soon because i will make a quantiser for my modular app. ( thanks you for reminding me how useful is a quantiser in a modular)

I have a patch in Reaktor with all these scales ( wendy carlos etc) and experimented at the past. I have made a 24 notes per octave synth once.

[Sextant]

With Expert Sleepers Disting EX you'll find very advanced quantizers, especially polyphonic ones. They works with STAB protocol (Soprano/Alto/Tenor/Bass) and even tintinabulism paradigm from Arvo Part. I own one in my set up and these tools are very, very powerfull for algorithmics "in tune" patches. And modular entousiasts loves in tunes generatives patches

https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/downl ... l_1.26.pdf

[fra77x2]

I'll check this out.

Also found this

https://www.neatnetnoise.com/synapse-se ... 76-page-17

An article about using an analog shift register for constructing arabesque type melodies for Serge modular

[fra77x2]

wow this module (Expert Sleepers Disting) looks like a studio and the surrounding buildings in a module. Does it send email too?


No no a tablet is better suited to this stuff.

Now I can understand why only one person has bought my wt-3d synth. Everybody is occupied by trying to program digital devices through three button interfaces and reading a thousand pages manual on how to play three notes. All seem so much reasonable now.

[Sextant]

You need a tablet to control it (via OSC), otherwise it's a maze of sub-menus where you get lost and die...

[fra77x2]

Ok that makes sense

[Sextant]

Lol, it's a rediscover of a medieval compositional technic. If you want serious and technical answers, limit you're search by combining tintinabulism and "Arvo Part" (or ask chatGPT, wich work well for music theory). High risk of new age bullshit otherwise

[fra77x2]

I checked wiki. I got discouraged with the "discovered under mystical experiences with chant music" and the amount of info available. If it is included in a device it doesn't mean something to me. I also checked youtube and heard a couple of seconds from a couple of vids. Well it sounded like chant music. Now don't get me wrong but we have the 400+ chorales of Bach do we need more of it?

I dont use chatgpt.

But I shouldn't be negative but I just try to not get excited with anything I hear. I have some kind of adblocker for everything

Ok i found a paper from uni.

I'll check it out. If it is gothic it interests me. I only read Fux. Its small one and contains everything. Chant music

[fra77x2]

Tintinnabuli
Tintinnabuli is a musical technique that Arvo Pärt created around 1976 as mentioned
above. The word tintinnabuli comes from the word tintinnabulum, the Latin term for a small bell.
Pärt named this style after he had been practicing the technique.29 Hillier understands Pärt’s
compositional technique in relation to medieval and Renaissance music. For him, tintinnabuli is
a simple structure that is based on a unique relationship between melody and harmony. The
harmony does not move, but it leans “sideways” in order to create a musical line:
In medieval and early Renaissance polyphony, the harmony is formed by the confluence
of the constituent voices to such an extent that harmonic analysis becomes at best
secondary. Similarly, in tintinnabuli music, where the harmony does not ‘move’ [sic], the
harmonic framework has been tilted sideways to form a musical line, and the relationship
between two different kinds of melodic movement creates a harmonic resonance which is
essentially the triad and the fluctuating attendance of diatonic dissonances. What we hear
might be described as a single moment spread out in time.30
There are two parts in the tintinnabuli texture, which are the Melodic voice (M-voice) and the
Tintinnabuli voice (T-voice) as suggested above. Hillier provides theological terms for the M-
voice and T-voice in tintinnabuli technique as, “sin” and “forgiveness” respectively. In their
discussions, Pärt described to him that the M-voice represents the subjective world and everyday
sin, whereas the T-voice signifies forgiveness. He explained further that the M-voice can appear
freely; however, the T-voice always holds tightly to its M-voice. This idea can be related to the
“eternal dualism,” such as the “body and spirit,” or “earth and heaven.”

I don't know about this compositional technique. To me all these sound kind of excessive. I am also an atheist so I can't relate to the notions that Pärt assignes to his structures. They have philological interest at best. I have an interest for the bell sound but a compositional system based on influence of the bell sound on harmonic writing seems quite odd to me.
I helieve my adblocker correctly recognised this reference as a potential ad and correctly blocked it.

So to summarize the expert sleepers not only contains in a single module the sum of digital technology but also an extended chapter of the history of music itself. If it could it would also contain the world itself because it actually wants to fulfil every possible desire and give to everyone everything. I think some product designers act like the master capitalist in parakrousis on their device design.

You need 17 technicians, 12 musicologists, and chatGpt to summarize the manual so to operate the device succesfully.