Cool Gear PCI to PCI Expansion

[fraz]

Hi,

Just been looking at one of these expansion boxes - Please see below

https://www.coolgear.com/product/pci-ex ... ansion-box

Is there any technical impediment or reason why this would not work with 3 X PCI cards onto a PCI-e slot?

After reading the tech specs it shows 2.5 Gb/s (Giga-bits-per-second)

USB 2 = 480 Mb/s (mega-bits-per-second) which is good for 24 channels I/O simultaneously

480 X 4 = 1,920 mega-bits-per-second or 1.9 Gb/s - Giga-bits-per-second so - Which is enough bandwidth for 96 channels I/O

The reason why I write this is that a 3 Scope PCI system would not have as many I/O channels simultaneously and should work no problem with this expansion box - But I ask here to see if anyone can offer any reason why this would not work? - Thanks -

[valis]

Try & report back, perhaps they have a good return policy.

[fraz]

Try & report back, perhaps they have a good return policy.

Hello - - This isn't a good comment - - But don't worry - I did figure I'd try this out - and it has plenty of bandwidth 2.5 Gb/s.

Star Tech do a big box version as well but it has 2 X PCI & 2 X PCI-e - X1 - So this box will fit in two PCI cards - Two Scope Pro's 28-30 DSP - So I'll try this version out.

A little while back I got an RME card - PCI-e X1 - model was AIO - Long story short is it didn't load the drivers when the card was in the X1 slot - But when I moved to an X16 slot - The drivers loaded and RME was up and running - This was my first experience of RME - But it did revolve around a PCI-e X1 slot - and an X16 slot.

This Star Tech box is the same idea - a PCI-e X1 card that may have a better chance in an X16 slot - If it does work it means any boards from X79 to X99 to Z390 / Z490 / Z590 & X570 & C602 / C612 / C621 & TRX40 - Would be a go-er for the PCI cards - If it can work -

[valis]

Often cards are X1 for logical connections, but still require the amperage (watts) supplied by an X4 slot. I have video capture devices that are similar.

Also, I suggested to try because it's doubtful anyone has yet tried it and it might be advantageous to the community. Hope that's ok!

[fraz]

Hello - Yes I will try one out at some point - I've bought it and now its arrived - It is STAR TECH https://www.startech.com/en-gb/cards-ad ... pex2pcie4l

Which is 2 X PCI & 2 X PCI-E - But it was cheaper to buy

The Cool Gear version looks very much the same but is 4 X PCI

No driver is required and native support is mentioned from within Windows so I see no reason why it should not work - But the elctrical connection you mention from an X4 slot or higher will be used.

Total bandwidth is 2,500 mega-bits-per-second or 2.5 Gb/s - giga-bits-per-second - So there is more than enough bandwidth

I checked the user manual which stipulates to power the unit on 1ST - Before main PC is booted - In time I'll try this out - But I can't try it now as I'm too busy looking at other things - But I've got a unit -

[at0m]

That looks very promising.

Initially I was a bit sceptic, cos "it's not just about throughput'. But I was also a bit lazy, so a quick search turned up this superuser.com post on PCI max throughput:

Conventional PCI buses operate with the following bandwidths:

• PCI 32-bit, 33 MHz: 1067 Mbit/s or 133.33 MB/s
• PCI 32-bit, 66 MHz: 266 MB/s
• ...

I remember taking my cards on the road in a magma chassis, maybe 15y ago, on PCMCIA expansion card. For some more details, here's on old z post on them.

In theory this PCIe-to-PCI expansion box should have plenty more bandwidth, indeed.
Looking forward to reading your experience!

[Bud Weiser]

For 3 hot running Scope cards, this Coolgear case might need a fan.
Enough space in the back for a 80mm NB Noiseblocker or such ?
How to power the fan ?
The ext. PSU might not provide enough power for additions.
Warranty is lost when modding the case.

Otherwise it might work when it really provides enough power for 3 5V PCI cards.

IIRC, Pulsar-2 needs ~ 11W and a Scope Power Pulsar or >Pro ~ 14W.
I downloaded flyer and owners manual but don´t see any specs (Watts or VA / ampere) for the 12V AC/DC PSU.



Bud

[Refrochia]

Hi Fraz

Did the box work ok? I’m having issues with one of the PCI slots on my almost 13 year old motherboard and would like to buy a new PC but trying to find an up to date MB with PCI slots is proving difficult so want to know if one of these boxes is a viable alternate.

I was also wondering how you supply power to the IO boards using one of these boxes to house the cards-can you shed any light on that please?

Thanks
R

[valis]

Look at server vendors for motherboards. There are many embedded applications (business 2 business) where PCI slots are still needed (there are still ISA slots!!) and companies like Supermicro offer boards. I went with a 2015 era board with 3x PCI slots and an older quad core XEONz

[Refrochia]

Hi Valis

Yes I've seen some posts about using a XEON server board however I would rather get an up to date processor and MB if I can. Just really hope the PCI to PCI-e converters work!

Thanks
R

[garyb]

PCI slots are obsolete.
look at server boards, as Valis suggested. consumer boards will likely not have PCI slots anymore.

[roy thinnes]

I'd like to recommend MSI B350.
I have a Tomahawk Arctic which has two PCI slots and gives 13 Masterverbs.
I think it's from 2018, but together with a Ryzen5 CPU it gives you enough power for your DAW.
Be sure to have the mainboard updated to the last version, otherwise you cannot use the newer Ryzen CPUs.

[Bud Weiser]

I'd like to recommend MSI B350.
I have a Tomahawk Arctic which has two PCI slots and gives 13 Masterverbs.
I think it's from 2018, but together with a Ryzen5 CPU it gives you enough power for your DAW.
Be sure to have the mainboard updated to the last version, otherwise you cannot use the newer Ryzen CPUs.

I did a search in germany ...
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=MSI+B350&t=ffab&ia=web

try to find a shop ...
Unavailable, even @Amazon.
"Mediamarkt" has it on disply for EUR 90,- w/ the announcement: "available SOON again"

And what´s up when there are more than 2 Scope PCI cards ?

I also googled for serverboards,- and there´s just only 1 (One) "Supermicro" w/ PCI slots @Mindfactory,- and it´s VERY expensive compared to the MSI.

It´s not so easy to buy the right electronics these days.



Bud

[garyb]

there are companies that only make server boards, other than supermicro....

[valis]

For Supermicro we can look at their motherboard matrix: https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/ ... rds/matrix

In the 12th generation (X12 boards), you are correct there is only 1 PCI slot on those Supermicro boards. But these are intended for consumer applications. Going backwards in generation I see:

https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/ ... d/X11SSA-F i (I own this board, it has 4 PCI slots!)
https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/ ... d/X11SAE-F (2 PCI slots)
https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/ ... d/X11SAE-F (2 PCI slots)

And GaryB is correct, this is far from the only server/embedded motherboard manufacturer that will have boards that will have PCI slots.

https://servers.asus.com/products/Serve ... /P10S-V-4L (4 32bit/33mhz PCI slots)

MSI & ASRock have some server boards with PCI slots in the 2 previous generations as well.

If you're looking for a motherboard on par with current generation consumer gear AND 3-4 PCI slots, probably not going to happen.

Btw I run Scope alongside my DAW using ADAT, analog i/o, Midi, RTPMidi, etc.

[nebelfuerst]

DFI also offers pci, like this with 5 pci slots:
https://www.dfi.com/de/product/index/1606

Nevertheless, those pci-expanders also worked for me (using magma brand). The number of masterverbs was 50% of that of the mainboard, but in my usecase not a limitation.

[Refrochia]

Some great motherboard suggestions so thanks for that

@nebelfuerst - what Magma product are you using and how is the latency? Also, if its an enclosure how are you providing the power to the boards?

@Fraz - are you able to report on your experience with the Startech enclosure?

[nebelfuerst]

I have two magma expanders. One with 3 slots and one with 13 slots. The card on the pc-side can either be pci or pcie.
I tried scope in the 13 slot and an old pulsar in the 3 slot-version, both worked.
The 3 slot came with its on powersupply and case, but not sure if a 15 dsp would fit there.
the 13 slot is in a standard pc case, with an atx powersupply.

These are quite old, so you might look at ebay to find them. The pcie card seems still to be quite expensive.

[valis]

Magma is the standard (PlanetZ) approved solution for using an external PCI expansion chassis.

[Refrochia]

Thanks Nebelfuerst

What latency settings did you use with the cards plugged into the Magma boxes? Did you have any issues with lower buffer size settings?

Regarding the power question-the pulsar and scope cards need the old floppy drive power cable style connector plugging into the IO board-do the magma boxes have such a cable? If not what did you use for this?