Help!!! Complete Panic.

[Atomic Marshmallow]

Hi

My perfectly working desktop isn't working anymore.

I decided to put two more GB of RAM in and it didn't work from then on. I am quite certain I have the correct RAM type. I took out the two new RAM chips to go back to the state it was originally in and still nothing.

I can't think what I could have done wrong. The only thing that concerned me was that I did have to apply quite a lot of pressure to install the RAM. I am wondering if maybe I damaged the mainboard.

The only thing that happens now when I switch on the PC is I hear a beep sound and that is it. Fans and stuff seem ok.

Please help!!

Thanks

[cortone]

Hey AM,

Not good! Here's a couple of things to try.

First, note the beep pattern (i.e., 3 short beeps, or a long beep followed by two short beeps, etc.) that you hear at power-on. These are usually debug info sent out by the BIOS to describe the error (not always). You can look up BIOS beep codes on the internet. This may help pinpoint the problem. There may be something about this in your mainboard's manual or website.

Next, unplug the AC power from the wall and let sit for several minutes (AC power cycling). Plug the system back in, and try booting.

If this still doesn't help, back to the MB manual and look for info about a 'clear CMOS' jumper or method. Follow the instructions, or just un-plug the system from the wall, move the jumper from 'normal' to 'clear' (or however it is described in the manual), let sit for 2-3 minutes, then put the jumper back to 'normal' and plug in and start the system. You will need to re-set the time/date in the BIOS, and restore any BIOS parameters that you changed from the default, including any disabled devices that you set here, etc.

Hope this helps!

Cory

[Atomic Marshmallow]

Hey AM,

Not good! Here's a couple of things to try.

First, note the beep pattern (i.e., 3 short beeps, or a long beep followed by two short beeps, etc.) that you hear at power-on. These are usually debug info sent out by the BIOS to describe the error (not always). You can look up BIOS beep codes on the internet. This may help pinpoint the problem. There may be something about this in your mainboard's manual or website.

Next, unplug the AC power from the wall and let sit for several minutes (AC power cycling). Plug the system back in, and try booting.

If this still doesn't help, back to the MB manual and look for info about a 'clear CMOS' jumper or method. Follow the instructions, or just un-plug the system from the wall, move the jumper from 'normal' to 'clear' (or however it is described in the manual), let sit for 2-3 minutes, then put the jumper back to 'normal' and plug in and start the system. You will need to re-set the time/date in the BIOS, and restore any BIOS parameters that you changed from the default, including any disabled devices that you set here, etc.

Hope this helps!

Cory

Thanks for the response. I haven't done the clear CMOS thing yet. I'll leave it to when I have more time.

My internet searching so far indicates one beep sound means that either the monitor and graphic card aren't connected. Or one of the chips on the mainboard is bad. The monitor and graphic card were fine before, as was everything else.

Another thing occured to me. I vacuumed some dust out and I wonder if a static charge could have come from the vacuum cleaner and screwed everything up. But I didn't notice any static discharge of any sort. If so could it have also messed up my Pulsar cards?

Is there a way to test if a motherboard is working or not? Is it beyond hope? What would clearing the CMOS achieve? Everything was working fine before. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks

[spacef]

This problem has 2 causes in most cases:
- ram not placed where it should, uncompatible ram etc etc... (very common "problem").
- fried motherboard or ram (less common, but always possible, eventhough motherboard are generally protected against this).

Static electricity can also be a problem: so first try to switch off the PSU for 30 seconds then back on, then switch the computer on (this is something generally affecting hard drives but you never know). that's the first thing to try and can solve many problems.

Other tricks:

- Try changing the ram slots (1 or 2 hours - do it one by one, testing all rams in the same slot to check that they are all recognized when only 1 ram slot is occupied, then place them as said in the manual). If none of the rams is recognized, the motherboard has a problem (may be tryiong top clear "CMOS" is a solution if it became corrupted for any reason.
- check that the ram is supported by the mobo
- make sure all ram are the same brand, capacity, cas etc
- Search in google for "asus p6T+ram+problem"
- go back to the shop to try to change against a working board or other ram brand.

A motherboard can "not start" for many reasons, most often it is because some connection is missing somewhere. An unplugged cpu fan or GPU fan can be more than enough to stop the computer from starting, because the unconnected hardware will not start if all that has to be connected is not connected (some graphic cards , or even electrified internal hard drive cases, have this design where they don't start when fans are unplugged, which i supposed is designed as a security but is really stupid when talking about hard drive cases).

[cortone]

AM,

Have you tried re-seating your video card? It's possible to bump when you are putting new memory (or whatever) into a computer. Also, beep codes can vary between BIOS manufacturers, although for the most-part they are very similar, so you may need to check multiple lists if you dont' know who made the BIOS.

Are there any other LED indicators, like various power supply voltages and a power-good signal? This would be described in your manual. Are they indicating any problems, such as a bad power supply?

It's possible that a glitch caused something in the BIOS to get hosed, and this could potentially be cleared with the CMOS jumper, which is really just a way to set the BIOS parameters back to their default states in the event that a parameter change screws up your system. That may or may not be available on your board, but if it is, it's worth a try.

The vacuum causing a static discharge is a bit unlikely, but not impossible. Do you live in a low-humidity area, or frequently get a static shock in your studio? Is it possible that the vacuum knocked something off, like a heatsink fan connection?

If static discharge did fry your board, it probably didn't affect the scope cards, but again it's not impossible that it did. You will have to try them in another computer to know for sure. It's not a bad idea to remove them while you are sorting this out, just to be certain.

Also, try taking all of the original memory out and installing only one of the new sticks, and then alternate with the other new stick alone in the board to see if either of them will bring it to life. Some boards can be very sensitive to having different memory types in them, even though both types are known to work with the board on their own.

Cory

Just as I was sending this through, SpaceF made some similar suggestions. I would back up that likely this is due to some incompatibilities between the different ram types, but there are a wide range of possibilities.

[spacef]

>>>> The vacuum causing a static discharge is a bit unlikely, but not impossible. Do you live in a low-humidity area, or frequently get a static shock in your studio? Is it possible that the vacuum knocked something off, like a heatsink fan connection?

Too low temperatures can also cause static electricty to accumulate. However, when you dismount the computer, with bare hands, you generally get it out so i don't think it is the problem. This could have happened if you made your changes with the window open in a low temperature area (below 5° celsius in general, but also depends on the kind of metal(s) you have here and there in or around your PC. I tried the effect of low temperature up to -12 degrees celsius external temperature - by the way, some internal passive hard drive cases meant as "silencer/coolers" are very reliable protection against magnetic problems (i tried with a magnetized screwdriver, all i got is a nice trail of electric sparkle on the hard drive silencer, but all data is safe and HD is running smooth as always).

Not well connected graphic card also happened to me once: i could not see that it was disconnected, but it was. The "security" for pci slots on asus are weird (on mine at least).

You often DO have to push hard to put ram slots , but mobos are more solid than that.

[garyb]

static from a vacuum, can certainly fry everything....

i'd try unplugging power and reseating everything, and then see what happens...

[Atomic Marshmallow]

Hi all,

Thank you all for your responses!!

I won't be able to try all your suggestions for a few days as I have no time. This has been a shitty day.

I really hope it's just a case of reseating stuff. So far the only thing I have tried is removing the RAM. I removed them all and started replacing them one by one, but it is the same as I described above. No improvement. Fans, power supplies etc.. seem to be functioning fine.

When I removed all the RAM, I started up the PC and heard a whole series of beeps, which according to the manual is what I should have heard. I don't know if it indicates something, that maybe the motherboard is still working (he hopes optimistically).

Excuse my language, but I am so fucking disappointed seeing I finally had that machine going after such a long time of it not working properly.

I am hoping that it something as simple as a graphic card being not seated properly, as I do remember my hand occassionally bumping into it when putting the new RAM in. Somehow I doubt it, because there was hardly any real pressure on it anyway. But you never know.

As far as static goes, it is a maybe, but I don't recall seeing or feeling any static discharge.

If worse comes to worse, it means a new motherboard (and all the hassle of researching what is good etc.. and finding one that has 3 PCI slots) and hopefully I haven't fried my cards if it was static. If I have, does that mean they are beyond repair? And is there a way to check if I have broken my mainboard?

I am not so optimistic about all this. My PC was working brilliantly until I changed the RAM. Plus it's not as if I haven't changed RAM before. I am so annoyed with myself.




Thanks all

[garyb]

i really doubt if the cards are fried. the computer would probably boot if the cards were the only problem.

always use air to clean dust, not a vacuum, though. serious charge accumulates at the end of the cleaner's nozzle. in the end, it's probably not the vacuum cleaner that's responsible, but it's possible.

do you have another video card? the best way to check the motherboard is to try and boot it with the minimal number of things connected. remove the cards and all but one stick of ram. try the other video card. try the other stick of ram. at some point it should boot and then you can eliminate the bad part. if it won't boot under any conditions, it's probably the motherboard.

still, before totally freaking out, make sure that all the other cables, hd, power, etc., are all firmly attached....

[spacef]

I always used a 1800 watt vaccum cleaner to undust the computer... the nose is plastic and unlikely to convey electricty... never had a problem... The Scope Pro DSP are firmly attached to the board . I use magnetic dust filters nowadays though, as well as fans with magnetic "bearings" just behind the hard drives (because you don't hear the bearing noise, the magnet is strong but I use hard drive cases that also protect them from magnetic interferences)...

[Shroomz~>]

It's very unlikely that none of your RAM is working, so that should be easy to rule out.

I'd suggest that if clearing the CMOS doesn't help & your GFX card is definitely seated properly, the issue will likely be one of 2 things. A faulty PSU or a dead GFX card. I've had a passive OEM Nvidea card just die on me before, so it's certainly not unheard of. Luckily for you, both GFX cards & PSU aren't expensive, so it won't cost you much money to fix the problem.

Obviously there's a slim chance that the mobo is dead, but it's probably the last thing to look at.

[Atomic Marshmallow]

Thank you Cortone, SpaceF,Garyb and Shroomz for your responses.

You have no idea how grateful I am! It turned out to be the graphic card not being seated properly. I was in the process of removing everything from the mainboard. Starting with the graphic card first. I couldn't quite figure out how to get the thing out (Thermaltake towers use a different system to the more conventional ones), but as I was jiggling it about, I noticed that the card could actually go further into the socket than it originally was. I pressed it firmly in place and thought I may as well switch it on and see. Eureka!! it worked. Luckily I didn't have to go through the hassle of removing everything. It all works as before. Phew!!!!!!!!!

Sorry guys that I appear to be a panic merchant, but I can't help it. I would so much like to be cool, calm and collected, but I am afraid it's a bit like asking a leopard to change it's spots. I am working on it, but not making much ground.

I would like to say that in my opinion at least, Planet Z is the most helpful and informative site with regard to music technology I have come across. There are lots of very knowledgeable and helpful people around here that are very, very patient and helpful to the technically inept like me. Not always the case in other forums. There is a pleasant atmosphere here with no real hostility towards members and troll problems seem to be dealt with well (as we have recently seen). I wish there was some way I could repay you all for your kindness.

Of course I would help others if I could, but I am not so knowledgeable about the technicalities. So for the time being I seem to be doing a lot of "taking" rather than "giving" in the information area, but at least accumulating knowledge, which hopefully I can pass on to other people in need if I can help.

Anyway, a huge thank you. You guys have often helped me out and if I could I'd hug you all.


BIG THANKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS. The only drawback to this now is I am stuck with a 6 or 7 year old desktop and I was almost looking forward to buying something more powerful and up to date, but I will stay with what I have for now and get on with making music.

PPS. I prematurely returned the RAM I bought and got my money back. I was a bit hasty in returning it, so I'll have to buy the RAM again. But is it "normal" to have to press so bloody hard to get it in? It did concern me and made me think I pressed too hard and so damaged the mainboard.

[Shroomz~>]

Great news!

Computers can be a real pain the ass sometimes!

Yes, it normally quite difficult to push/click RAM into place. Sometimes it seems to take a crazy amount of pressure & it's even worse if you're trying to fit it in a system where the mobo is attached to the case with shitty plastic stand-offs instead of a full set of solid metal ones. With the plastic ones there's movement when you put pressure on to fit the ram, whereas it's better with metal stand-offs where there's no movement of the mobo because it just feels less likely that something will break.

[garyb]

[Atomic Marshmallow]

Great news!

Computers can be a real pain the ass sometimes!

Yes, it normally quite difficult to push/click RAM into place. Sometimes it seems to take a crazy amount of pressure & it's even worse if you're trying to fit it in a system where the mobo is attached to the case with shitty plastic stand-offs instead of a full set of solid metal ones. With the plastic ones there's movement when you put pressure on to fit the ram, whereas it's better with metal stand-offs where there's no movement of the mobo because it just feels less likely that something will break.

Hmmm. Funny you should mention that. It seems the person who built my PC didn't attach all the "stand offs" (I didn't realise they were called that). Seems like quite a few are missing, which could explain maybe why there is so much bend.

Another thing I noticed in the BIOS is that there is no "Primary" or "Secondary" IDE master. My two DVD drives are, Third IDE Master and Third IDE Slave, and my two hard drives are, Fourth IDE Master and Fourth IDE Slave. What I noticed was that when I pull out one of the hard drives and then start the PC, my DVD drives no longer work or exist within the BIOS. Only one hard drive is seen and not the DVD drives. Seems strange. Then I put the hard drive back and all is "normal". Shouldn't there always be a Primary and Secondary IDE master? Does all that seem standard? My guess is the person who built it didn't really know what they were doing and connected it all wrongly. Am I right?

Thanks

[Shroomz~>]

Hmmm. Funny you should mention that. It seems the person who built my PC didn't attach all the "stand offs" (I didn't realise they were called that). Seems like quite a few are missing, which could explain maybe why there is so much bend.

Oh, that's a total nightmare. It's horrible trying to fit RAM in a system if the mobo isn't securely fixed in all the right places. There should ideally be a stand-off in every appropriate position to make the mobo as secure as possible. If you decide to buy the RAM again I'd probably take the mobo out & re-fit it properly before installing the RAM. If you can't be bothered doing that or aren't confident about it, something you can do is wedge something behind the mobo where one of the missing stand-offs is causing a weakness, but you have to be very careful doing this & make sure that you aren't wedging something behind a component that's solder joint could break when you apply pressure on the mobo to fit the RAM.

[garyb]

Great news!

Computers can be a real pain the ass sometimes!

Yes, it normally quite difficult to push/click RAM into place. Sometimes it seems to take a crazy amount of pressure & it's even worse if you're trying to fit it in a system where the mobo is attached to the case with shitty plastic stand-offs instead of a full set of solid metal ones. With the plastic ones there's movement when you put pressure on to fit the ram, whereas it's better with metal stand-offs where there's no movement of the mobo because it just feels less likely that something will break.

Hmmm. Funny you should mention that. It seems the person who built my PC didn't attach all the "stand offs" (I didn't realise they were called that). Seems like quite a few are missing, which could explain maybe why there is so much bend.

Another thing I noticed in the BIOS is that there is no "Primary" or "Secondary" IDE master. My two DVD drives are, Third IDE Master and Third IDE Slave, and my two hard drives are, Fourth IDE Master and Fourth IDE Slave. What I noticed was that when I pull out one of the hard drives and then start the PC, my DVD drives no longer work or exist within the BIOS. Only one hard drive is seen and not the DVD drives. Seems strange. Then I put the hard drive back and all is "normal". Shouldn't there always be a Primary and Secondary IDE master? Does all that seem standard? My guess is the person who built it didn't really know what they were doing and connected it all wrongly. Am I right?

Thanks

yes, i think you're right...

[spacef]

>>>> Shouldn't there always be a Primary and Secondary IDE master? Does all that seem standard? My guess is the person who built it didn't really know what they were doing and connected it all wrongly. Am I right?

Probably. I think with SATA the concept of master slave is something of the past.
With IDE drives (PATA), it is still applicable, eventhough at some point they made drive that could automatically detect if they were master or slave. so may be it is a matter of "age"

Now, something that happened to me once, is the jumper falling off the hard drive after some manipulation, and so there was no master anymore it took me a while to find out what it was. If you use a vaccum cleaner to clean the computer case, the jumper may be lost .
Don't excuse yourself, installing new hardware in a computer can cause big stress.... and it also happens that some hardware doesn't work, like iun any other industry (product defects or else).

I am happy that it is solved for you and that it is the graphic card that was not well connected.

Now, have some fun with the PC

PS: big or small graphic card, it is always better to provide ventilation for it, so it last long. heat can reduce the life span of a computer hardware by big amounts.
@Shroomz, if you can, get a temperature probe and see by how many degrees the GPU goes up as soon as you open an app like photoshop (more stress than a high end 3D app). Just opening photoshop is almost like running a game that require midlle to high GPU processing power.
Graphic card heat comes mainly from the number of pixels to display on a screen -> big screen=more GPU power required (and ram too, even with non graphic apps. In fact, the high amount of ram found on recent cards is necessary for the big screens that you find nowadays, 22', 24' and more.... that's the main use of ram of graphic cards).

[spacef]

by the way, about pushing the ram hard: I guess you have opened the "security" brackets on the ram slots ? (i am sure you did).
But it is not abnormal that you have to push hard (except if you have to use a hammer)....
On my gygabyte mobo, it is the pci slots that are a bit too tight and have to be violented a little bit...
bloody computers

[spacef]

ok, found something
On the asus boards, it can be the security brackets that are a bit too tight and therefore don't fit the hole on ram barrets by a few 10th of a milimeter. On my board, that's what is making it hard to put ram in the slot (asus p5Q-E).

You have to push the ram in the slot, while pulling the security bracket upward so it gets on the hole of the ram bar more easily.
Don't pull too hard of course, it just meant as a "help" for the security brakcet rather than pulling like crazy, which might lead to breaking the plastic bracket ....


Do this either with the case opened and placed horizontally and with good lighting so you can see what you are doing, or remove the board from the case and work on a table making sure that, when you push, you don't crush the soldering at the back of the mobo (so use something between the table and the board, like foam, or even a pillow, or something like that).

It is not so hard once you know the thing about the ram security brackets that are a bit too tight. I am pretty sure it will be the same on your asus.

Good luck !
let us know !

Mehdi