PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

With a new computer two years ago, I changed my recording setup from 16bit/44.1kHz to 24bit/96kHz. As I was using Pulsar2 with ADAT outputs and an A16-ultra, I used SMux and was limited to only 8 in/outs. To increase the number of in/outs I bought a 3DSP card and another A16-ultra. So now I have 9DSPs in my setup and thought that this should be sufficient to comfortably run a Minimax plug in, which I bought a week ago. Unfortunately the Minimax only gives me 1-2 voices in 24/96-mode compared to about 8 in 16/44.1.
I tried to use it in a setup with 24bit/44.1khz, where I also got 6-8 voices but some of the timing in my Cubase set didn't work properly. All synced delays, arpeggios and stepsequencers wouldn't run tight at all. By the way I never read about anybody using 24bit with 44.1kHz, but I don't know why it shouldn't work.

Has anybody got suggestions about how to best use a minimax with a reasonable polyphony on 9 DSPs?

After a few hours of playing around with the minimax, I have to say, that this is the best "analog" sound I ever heard from non-analog equipment.

real minimoogs never had midi. record it(as audio, the old fashioned way).

you can record the midi info at the same time in case you need to alter it...

... and they were monophonic synths
stupid me wouldn't even think about polyphony on that one

in a less kidding way:
if you stack too many voices of the Mini, you'll loose the beauty and expression of the single one
it turns into 'just a pad sound' then

but that's only my very humble opinion, use it as you like

the Mini uses an oversampling filter internally, so it wasn't supposed to do 96 at all
(maybe they've changed something about that)
you cannot tell a 16 bit from a 24 bit version unless you're a bat in real life
I don't intend to be negative, I just like to keep things simple when they are...

cheers, Tom

I use Analog Synths and also use DSP synths from Creamware since the other DSP synths are better for digital types of sound.
IMHO 16bit for synths is better when DSP conservation is being considered.
I have the power to use 24bit all of the time now but for live work I used my samplers and synths at 16bit whenever possible.
It isn't noticable. But for recording SMUX has better results on samples or synths that use samples like Vectron or Wavetable stuff in Modular. The samples seem to get a slight shimmer in the high end which I hear and like.
But on synths,I just don't hear it.

ASB's are cool and BTW the new Voyager MiniMoog isn't analog and doesn't sound any different in a mix. WHich means the ASB is cheaper, has more voices, but geez......it would sure be tough though not having all of those cool lights on the Voyager.

If you ever really want a FAT Analog sound and don't mind a 3U unit the SE-1 and SE-1x's are as strong as an old MiniMoog and next to the ASB's, new Moogs and new Prophets its very east to hear the FATTEST BASTARD of the 3. But it is strictly monophonic, and that's an important feature to consider.

btw many people use 24/44.1 all over the world. What is your ULLI setting?

Also you would better off having a single 14 DSP card, because the way you have it now Scope is splitting processing across 6+3, which usually results in less of everything (voices etc.).

If your music has no tempo changes then just set the tempo manually in each device (delay etc.), rather than trying to lock to external clock.

emmm... if you use one A16 Ultra via Z-link connection you can have real time 24/96 16 X in-out. There was no need to order another A16 ultra but hey...now you can have 32x IO at 24/96 via z-link

96khz takes over twice the dsp, cpu and hd resources as 44.1. there's no reason for your machine to no run at 44.1khz. check stardust's link. something is not setup properly....

ASB's are cool and BTW the new Voyager MiniMoog isn't analog and doesn't sound any different in a mix. WHich means the ASB is cheaper, has more voices, but geez......it would sure be tough though not having all of those cool lights on the Voyager.


The new Voyager MiniMoog is indeed analog.
Yes the ASB are cool!

24 bit at 44.1 works just fine. Like it was said maybe you need a 14dsp card, I have one for sale if you're interested, just a booster no i/o, but I used it with a 6dsp for years and it works great, adds alot of extra power. If you are interested pm me.

Jah Servant wrote:24 bit at 44.1 works just fine. Like it was said maybe you need a 14dsp card, I have one for sale if you're interested, just a booster no i/o, but I used it with a 6dsp for years and it works great, adds alot of extra power. If you are interested pm me.

Pmmed you.

electric guillaume wrote:I tried to use it in a setup with 24bit/44.1khz, where I also got 6-8 voices but some of the timing in my Cubase set didn't work properly. All synced delays, arpeggios and stepsequencers wouldn't run tight at all.

Tell me, the Virus plug from TC Group had issues such as you describe, so how does it work, for example is the protocol used purely MIDI?

If so there may be hope as Access Virus managed to fix it in the end but only due to widespread stomping of feet.

When you say 16-bit vs 24-bit, do you mean what is set in the DAW? I wasn't aware of Scope allowing you to change the bit rate, only the sample rate.

Peace \/
chisel316

the bitrate depends on the device. some have VERY high bitrates. what you CAN choose is what bitrate communicates with your software.

garyb wrote:the bitrate depends on the device. some have VERY high bitrates. what you CAN choose is what bitrate communicates with your software.

I have a Creamware Pulsar II. No mention of bitrate in the settings.

bit rate to software is chosen by which wav or asio modules you choose. what up chis?

astroman wrote:... you cannot tell a 16 bit from a 24 bit version unless you're a bat in real life
I don't intend to be negative, I just like to keep things simple when they are...

I always thought bitdepth was dynamics. Bats hear ultrasone, that's your Hz Keep it simple, but above all correct.

Oh, and sad as may be, but Minimax is clearly documented not to support 96kHz...

at0m wrote:. Bats hear ultrasone, that's your Hz ...

well, not mine - and neither the bat's
it probably doesn't mind any frequency response at all...
they are supposed to have extremely detailed hearing abilities and could (potentially) detect processing artifacts way better than us.
but quantization noise seems boring to them and phase errors only relevant when based on moth wings

cheers, Tom

garyb wrote:bit rate to software is chosen by which wav or asio modules you choose. what up chis?

Doh! I gotcha now. Thanks!

Peace \/
chisel316

XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:BTW the new Voyager MiniMoog isn't analog and doesn't sound any different in a mix. WHich means the ASB is cheaper, has more voices, but geez......it would sure be tough though not having all of those cool lights on the Voyager.

???

The Voyager is Analog.

It has analog VCO's (not DCO's), VCF's, Analog Envelopes, Analog LFO's. You can open it and see the analog circuits. The original Voyager has digital controls which map to voltages, and you can actually bypass almost all of them by feeding voltage directly into the synth. The MIDI board is very small, and separate. The Voyager old-school discards the preset digital circuitry and just maps to the circuits.

XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:If you ever really want a FAT Analog sound and don't mind a 3U unit the SE-1 and SE-1x's are as strong as an old MiniMoog and next to the ASB's, new Moogs and new Prophets its very east to hear the FATTEST BASTARD of the 3. But it is strictly monophonic, and that's an important feature to consider.

Doesn't the SE-1x have digital envelopes?

The Voyager is very very analog. It sounds awesome. I have a lot of synths, and the Voyager is pretty awesome.