Laptop or desktop? Please read...

[CreamWare4Ever]

Hello fellow musicians,

I have a BIG dilemma. In short terms, I'm wondering if, and how much, power I will get if I migrate from desktop machine with:

WinXP
AMD Athlon XP2600+
CPU 1.92 GHz
2 GB Ram
160GB HD 5000 rmp

to laptop:

Hewlett-Packard Compaq Presario CQ60 Notebook
Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU T3200 @ 2.00GHz
3,00 GB RAM
320HD 5000 rmp

In my desktop I have 3ms latency on scope card which is excellent for virtual instruments etc. That shall be possible with laptop I guess to?

My question is: Any estimation regarding how much better performance I will get if migrate to Hewlett-Packard Compaq Presario CQ60 Notebook as stated above?

I will really appriciate some inputs. Thanks!

[astroman]

a Scope card doesn't fit inside a laptop, so why bother at all ?
Xite isn't released yet...
but as a rule of thumb you can pretty much consider any laptop for less than 3K Euro a piece of crap in one or the other way
all laptops notoriously suffer from heat problems
no laptops are designed and built with real-time audio processing in mind

well, I should not be that negative...
(imho) you may find what you need in the military and outdoor category... say Grid Computers (as an example for a supplier)

ok, enough kidding - but power and laptop are opposites, unless you're willing to spend a lot of cash.
of course you can process audio on a laptop (thousand are doing it)
but for any given amount paid, you'd get the same performance for one third in a desktop - or for half the price in a rackmount.

with a laptop you better ignore performance completely and just enjoy the mobility
... though the peripherals (often) don't make it that 'handy' at all - it's not like taking it to a corporate presentation or so

cheers, Tom

[CreamWare4Ever]

Hello,

Thank you for your input. You have a point there. My intention is to use laptop as a music workstation so that I can be more mobile. Since this laptop I bought use a powerfull Intel CPU, I think that it shall be able to run 30 audio chanels with some plugs? Or?

Regards.

[CreamWare4Ever]

Not much to add. tom said it very precisely.

Scope PCI cards do not mach wih a notebook unless you use a external box.

Well yes, I will use external Scope & other hardware.

When moving on thin ice with an estimate i would say you can expect roughly the same or a bit less performance in terms of CPU and HD with the planned change.

You mean in comparison with my desktop AMD machine I stated above?

[dawman]

If mobility is what you're after, and 30 audio channels, the Intel should be no problemo.
Also w/ some extra gadgetry most of the heat issues can be removed. HDD's IMO seem to be the culprits.
SSD also as an O.S. + Apps. solution is quiet, and since you won't stream audio from it, it will be a possibility to consider.
You could keep the same HDD's from your AMD DAW, and migrate them to the litlle rack below via the 2 port 34mm connector.
Barebones laptops are cheaper, and right now companies are hurting for sales.

[pollux]

Hello,

Thank you for your input. You have a point there. My intention is to use laptop as a music workstation so that I can be more mobile. Since this laptop I bought use a powerfull Intel CPU, I think that it shall be able to run 30 audio chanels with some plugs? Or?

Regards.

If you get an XITE-1 it shouldn't be an issue
Try to get a notebook with an eSATA port already there. With the XITE you'll use the express card port.

[CreamWare4Ever]

Big thanks to all of you. I bought a Hewlett-Packard Compaq Presario CQ60 Notebook
Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU T3200 @ 2.00GHz, 3,00 GB RAM, 320HD 5000 rmp and will test how its takes all my stuff that I'm doing.

I'm planing to fix an external HD as XITE-1/4LIVE suggested, but not now. First I need to test and do some LIVE benchmarking - driving laptop crazy with tons of plugins and audio channels at the same time.

Thanks!

[dawman]

Right On Brotha' Man CW4ever.

I have tested the external rack, and it is a Chinese cheapo, but the speed of the internal HDD's moved to the external rack shows the same speeds when streaming Gigastudio libraries using an ancient Layla and Indigo.
I never knew how hot these things really were until now. Noisy as hell too.
It's not an elagant solution but very cheap, and no performance hit.
The nice thing about it is the 2.5" adapter that is included. It will allow any 2.5"/3.5" HDD.
The SSD O.S. + Apps. drive is suppose to be faster than a mechanical HDD, but I see no difference. The heat issue though, and noise is elimated 100%.

ttp://www.sata-io.org/esata.asp

[CreamWare4Ever]

Right On Brotha' Man CW4ever.

I have tested the external rack, and it is a Chinese cheapo, but the speed of the internal HDD's moved to the external rack shows the same speeds when streaming Gigastudio libraries using an ancient Layla and Indigo.
I never knew how hot these things really were until now. Noisy as hell too.
It's not an elagant solution but very cheap, and no performance hit.
The nice thing about it is the 2.5" adapter that is included. It will allow any 2.5"/3.5" HDD.
The SSD O.S. + Apps. drive is suppose to be faster than a mechanical HDD, but I see no difference. The heat issue though, and noise is elimated 100%.

ttp://www.sata-io.org/esata.asp

Huh, 111.3 MB/Sec benchmarking on SERIAL Truly amazing. Thanks, I will set up everything now.

[astroman]

Jimmy, that disk probably costs more than his notebook...

...I bought a Hewlett-Packard Compaq Presario CQ60 Notebook
Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU T3200 @ 2.00GHz, 3,00 GB RAM, 320HD 5000 rmp and will test how its takes all my stuff that I'm doing. ...

to be honest, I didn't know they shell them out that cheapo - so at least even if it is totally unusable in musical context it will serve great as an office/internet/etc box
an sustained-load-real-world-test would indeed be quite interesting...
you may benefit on the plugin side from increased cpu cache, but you certainly loose on the disk side - which you probably expected.
the tricky part is that they design (the powermanagement) of such notebooks for the average Joe, so either expect the cpu fan to accelerate to rocket speed or the thingy to clock itself down in fright of heat death
my guess is that overall performance will decrease (noticably) compared to your desktop system, even though the latter doesn't seem to have a fast HD.

cheers, Tom

[CreamWare4Ever]

Jimmy, that disk probably costs more than his notebook...

...I bought a Hewlett-Packard Compaq Presario CQ60 Notebook
Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU T3200 @ 2.00GHz, 3,00 GB RAM, 320HD 5000 rmp and will test how its takes all my stuff that I'm doing. ...

to be honest, I didn't know they shell them out that cheapo - so at least even if it is totally unusable in musical context it will serve great as an office/internet/etc box
an sustained-load-real-world-test would indeed be quite interesting...
you may benefit on the plugin side from increased cpu cache, but you certainly loose on the disk side - which you probably expected.
the tricky part is that they design (the powermanagement) of such notebooks for the average Joe, so either expect the cpu fan to accelerate to rocket speed or the thingy to clock itself down in fright of heat death
my guess is that overall performance will decrease (noticably) compared to your desktop system, even though the latter doesn't seem to have a fast HD.

cheers, Tom

Regarding heat issue, I will try to use this one:

http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Pro ... sp?idx=130

So help me God...

[astroman]

I'd rather save the cash - it only helps with the last 10% of heat.
there are too many layers between the source and the cooler for effective dissipation.
it may read funny, but getting rid of heat actually is the most expensive part of PC/notebook construction.

I remember a so-called 'silent' desktop unit from the P4 days sold by Siemens for about 2.5k Euro.
Not only did it have a solid (read massive) alloy case, but all those heatpipes required a complex manual mounting procedure.
In a 'regular' notebook the situation is even worse, as a tight connection to the case would introduce serious tension when moving the unit around.
That's why I mentioned the 'rugged' or 'military' versions, which are massively built - but that (understandably) drives prices into completely different regions.

Btw I have an old Thinkpad (P3 850MHZ), which doesn't engage it's fan for word processing, email, programming and such stuff (around 55 celsius), but as soon as I browse YouTube it jumps up to 80 degrees and the fan starts to blow...

cheers, Tom

[CreamWare4Ever]

I'd rather save the cash - it only helps with the last 10% of heat.
there are too many layers between the source and the cooler for effective dissipation.
it may read funny, but getting rid of heat actually is the most expensive part of PC/notebook construction.

I remember a so-called 'silent' desktop unit from the P4 days sold by Siemens for about 2.5k Euro.
Not only did it have a solid (read massive) alloy case, but all those heatpipes required a complex manual mounting procedure.
In a 'regular' notebook the situation is even worse, as a tight connection to the case would introduce serious tension when moving the unit around.
That's why I mentioned the 'rugged' or 'military' versions, which are massively built - but that (understandably) drives prices into completely different regions.

Btw I have an old Thinkpad (P3 850MHZ), which doesn't engage it's fan for word processing, email, programming and such stuff (around 55 celsius), but as soon as I browse YouTube it jumps up to 80 degrees and the fan starts to blow...

cheers, Tom

Ah, to late, I have already purchased this laptop I will get back to you with result...

[astroman]

...Ah, to late, I have already purchased this laptop I will get back to you with result...

yes, that was clear - but the post above wasn't intended to discourage you...
it just meant you cannot avoid the side effects of heat - not even my less-than-1Ghz Oldie can

cheers, Tom

[CreamWare4Ever]

...Ah, to late, I have already purchased this laptop I will get back to you with result...

yes, that was clear - but the post above wasn't intended to discourage you...
it just meant you cannot avoid the side effects of heat - not even my less-than-1Ghz Oldie can

cheers, Tom

No problem

[garyb]

hey, you logged on the the "tech talk" forum. you knew the job was dangerous when you took it...

[siriusbliss]

a Scope card doesn't fit inside a laptop, so why bother at all ?
Xite isn't released yet...
but as a rule of thumb you can pretty much consider any laptop for less than 3K Euro a piece of crap in one or the other way
all laptops notoriously suffer from heat problems
no laptops are designed and built with real-time audio processing in mind

well, I should not be that negative...
(imho) you may find what you need in the military and outdoor category... say Grid Computers (as an example for a supplier)

ok, enough kidding - but power and laptop are opposites, unless you're willing to spend a lot of cash.
of course you can process audio on a laptop (thousand are doing it)
but for any given amount paid, you'd get the same performance for one third in a desktop - or for half the price in a rackmount.

with a laptop you better ignore performance completely and just enjoy the mobility
... though the peripherals (often) don't make it that 'handy' at all - it's not like taking it to a corporate presentation or so

cheers, Tom

Personal experience shows that it's worth getting a beefier laptop like an Alienware and then consider getting an Xite and go fully mobile.
Should be plenty of horsepower for your needs.
The HP's and Dell's out there are not necessarily hefty enough to handle the stresses of a mobile DAW.
This is the direction I'm going for my mobile studio, while leaving the main Scope DAW at home studio.

now...about running Xite on batteries (or solar)....hmmmmmm.....

Greg