Complete newbie: how does activation/registration work?

[cassiel]

I'm looking into getting a Pulsar (I or II) - or maybe two - off eBay, to hook up to my OasysPCI cards. I've hunted around on Planet Z and the CreamWare site, but don't yet understand how the whole software registration thing works.

So, we've gone from the "Pulsar software" up through Scope to 4.5. My understanding is that the former is freely available but Scope isn't - so does this mean I could buy a copy of Scope and lock it to a Pulsar card (for each card)?

Presumably the third-party products are locked to the cards as well - do all third-party developers use the same scheme for licensing and locking?

Is licence transfer supported? (I've seen the threads which mention transfer fees.) I don't see how a transfer to Pulsar B invalidates whatever software environment let it run on Pulsar A - or does transfer just invalidate any future upgrades on the old card?

Sorry for any stupid questions. I'm seeing a few Pulsar II's on eBay, some of which promise hoards of plug-ins, some with licence keys available (it says here), and really want to understand the machinery (and legality) behind all this before splashing out the dosh.

Thanks in advance.

-- Nick.

[astroman]

in fact the eBay deals turn out much too complicated regarded registration.
the seller could just provide a copy of his allkeys.skf (a plain text file), sent via email or at least a printout, and then there wouldn't even be the need to contact CWA (at least regarding what comes with the card).
In fact there is nothing personal in the keysfile.

The file Scope.rgy in the sfp\app\bin folder is the actual file the (SFP) system uses - the entries from allkeys are simply added to the latter (it's empty when installing).

Since CWA maintains a customer database it would of course be a good idea to inform them about selling a card and pass the login info to the account to the customer - after editing all info that one wants to keep private.

Not all third party developers use CWA's protection scheme that adds devices to the allkeys list. Some include your name on the device's GUI - and of course the latter type of plugins can be used with whatever Scope system you have. The respective developers simply trust in you as a customer.

cheers, Tom

[cassiel]

The SW and the plugins are registered to the HW serial number of your scope card.

Ah, OK: so, for each product, the registration key is some kind of encrypted hash generated from the card's serial number? (i.e. the card is acting as a dongle.)

If you buy one second hand you get the registration keys necessary from the seller.

Right... if I'm buying the card, the registration keys are of no use to anyone else (they're locked to the card); I'd just need to make sure I got them.

If you upgrade the platform (e.g. from 4.0 to 4.5) you pay and get new keys for each plugin you own from creamware. Ralf Bach is the master of the arts.

Now I'm confused: why would I need new keys if the software platform is upgraded? Or do CreamWare tend to update their plug-ins as well (and hence issue new keys)? Would I expect existing third-party plug-ins to work unchanged?

At the risk of veering into a new topic: if I were to buy a card with (say) the original Pulsar software and a collection of random plug-ins (with registrations), could I expect the plug-ins to run in Scope? Would I be expected to upgrade the CreamWare plug-ins at the same time?

Only if you use the crads in separate PCs you have to maybe consider which plugin is registered to what HW serial (i.e. board).

OK - that makes sense. Part of the reason I'm looking into two Pulsars is that I have two ITOX rack PC's with an OasysPCI card each (like Scott, who I think has posted here). Part of the appeal of the Pulsar is the multiple ADAT's, so that I could link up some kind of dual Pulsar/OasysPCI lightpipe-based rig in 2U of rack space, but I want to understand how the software gets locked to the hardware.

Thanks for the reply.

[garyb]

when upgrading from 4.0 to 4.5 there are some new devices as well as a new 4.5 key. not all keys are updated.

it's good to inform CWA of the change in ownership. then you have a place for a backup to your backup of your keyfile. also, if you buy any new devices, you'll need keys from CWA. better that they already know you have the card.

[kylie]

when upgrading from 4.0 to 4.5 there are some new devices as well as a new 4.5 key. not all keys are updated.

there is no such thing as new scope 4.5 key. you run it with the 4.0 key, but you get additional devices, like the sbc, if you upgrade. you can, though, decide to forget about the additional stuff and run the scope 4.5 software with a 4.0 registration.
if your card has no 4.0 key (thus 3.x or older), you should consider upgrading.

-greetings, markus-

[garyb]

that's true, but...
you do get a new 4.0 key with 4.5.
nonetheless, you can install the 4.5 software and use the 4.0 keys as kylie says. also, it's correct that you don't get the 4.5 package.

[bill3107]

Remember that activation keys are related to the very eeprom of the card so that an activation key is - commonly said - attached to the serial number. Thus, you can transfer one plug in from one card to another but it is quite complicated and dangerous if you make a mistake during the procedure (as the eeprom may have to be reprogrammed by creamware Germany...). Sooo, it depends on what you really want. I would avoid a second hand board with only few plugins registered (i mean, officially on THAT board. A seller could try to give you activation keys of plugins that have been removed and transfered to another board...) as it would be better to buy a brand new one with the 4.5 version (and thus more plugins and last update). If you can get a second hand card at a good price, just buy the plugins you really need according to your projects, but avoid transfers as they can be risky for your board... Good luck !

[kylie]

Remember that activation keys are related to the very eeprom of the card so that an activation key is - commonly said - attached to the serial number.

the eprom should hold the serial number and is, thus, relevant for the registered plugins, since they're bound to the serial.

Thus, you can transfer one plug in from one card to another but it is quite complicated and dangerous if you make a mistake during the procedure (as the eeprom may have to be reprogrammed by creamware Germany...).

it's not complicated at all. you just buy a transfer-plugin item, tell cw which plugin from what card to what card, and you get new allkeys files for both. that's the way I bought 2 or 3 plugins from other users that had them registered to their boards.

I see no necessity to reprogram any eprom, since the key(s) are not written to the card. try it out, cut some plugs from your allkeys file, make a fresh install and try if you can get the plugins running.

you might need a eprom (re)program if your card died and you sent it in for repair. I never had to do that, but I'm quite sure that you won't notice if cw had to do it...

Sooo, it depends on what you really want. I would avoid a second hand board with only few plugins registered (i mean, officially on THAT board. A seller could try to give you activation keys of plugins that have been removed and transfered to another board...)

I haven't bought any board new (well, let aside the pulsar XTC, which was NOS ).
even with scope 4.5 update they were much cheaper than new, and when I bought them, 4.5 wasn't even there...

I would suggest buying a board that has at least a scope 4.0 key registered to it.
running a keyfile that contains keys "officially" removed from the board might violate... well, something... (if you not register the board, you will never find out, but that's another story...).
if you want to buy additional plugins, you will surely get a new keyfile, though, where you can see if all the plugins you believe to be registered ARE registered to that board...

I see no real pain here (apart from cw not getting another card sold).

-greetings, markus-

[bill3107]

may be the procedure has recently changed... i can tell that i have already done plugins transfer and i know people who did so.... You had to use 2 special plugins epincpider and another that - for sure - removed the plugins from the eeprom (this is a simplification of course). If you failed you could block the board (due to eeprom)... have a look on the search option ; there was a thread dealing with the transfer procedure.

Indeed if the procedure is now simplier, a transfer does not bother (it will cost you 55€ for several plugins transfered in one go) but the plugins MUST be officially registered on the board (activation keys or allkey file sent by the seller do not prove it is the case...). As for version 4.0 it is free if the board has scope 3.1 if i remember well... And as scope 4.5 may add interesting plugins (B2003 for e.g.), just compare if it is worth it or not...

[kylie]

You had to use 2 special plugins epincpider and another that - for sure - removed the plugins from the eeprom (this is a simplification of course). If you failed you could block the board (due to eeprom)...

umhh... well, I really just bought plugins before...
I read some threads and, well, it seems you're right. there are several hints that you have to run some software that will really reprogram the eeprom, which indeed means you can render the card unusable...

Indeed if the procedure is now simplier, a transfer does not bother (it will cost you 55€ for several plugins transfered in one go) but the plugins MUST be officially registered on the board (activation keys or allkey file sent by the seller do not prove it is the case...). As for version 4.0 it is free if the board has scope 3.1 if i remember well... And as scope 4.5 may add interesting plugins (B2003 for e.g.), just compare if it is worth it or not...

I've always been on the receiving end, until now. but the plugin transfer item description reads as easy as I described it.
I admit I was not aware that cw indeed hardcoded information to the board itself. and, yes, I wondered about misuse already...

maybe some planetz user may confirm that the procedure does still involve running the eeprom cleaning tool...?!

( I'm interested in selling boards myself, but not "fully loaded"... )

-greetings, markus-

[astroman]

I see few reasons why the procedure should have changed - you just don't notice the transfer if you're on the 'receiving side'
The seller has to erase all keys from the board, then a verification (some intermediate code #) must be transferred to CWA to assure your really did.
Only then they will generate the new keys for both customer and seller - otherwise you could just pretend you followed their advice and keep using the installed plugins
I'd either sell with all plugins or not at all - if there is a chance something can go wrong it will, sooner or later... and 2nd hand prices are ridiculously low anyway

cheers, Tom

[garyb]

yeah, it's not an issue for the buyer really.....

[kylie]

Only then they will generate the new keys for both customer and seller - otherwise you could just pretend you followed their advice and keep using the installed plugins

I understand what's the reason behind it. I just thought (maybe a freudian thought) it was somewhat easier...

I'd either sell with all plugins or not at all - if there is a chance
something can go wrong it will, sooner or later...

that's what murphy teaches us. right.

and 2nd hand prices are ridiculously low anyway

for the boards, that's right. that's why I bought them used. plugins are somewhat different. the market for "used" plugins is very small, and mostly limited to plugins that are expensive...

-greetings, markus-

[bill3107]

you are right... for example i do not have Prodyssey ( ). but i prsonally won't buy it at 200 euros for sure as i know the klang version (rack, external power) is just the double price. For 2 plugins i can get a hardware... On this subject, plugins (vsti too !) are quite expensive, and they the CPU is little by little on its knees...

As for the transfer of SonicTimeworks plugins, forget about it as i had problems with that 1 year ago (for a 4080). Of course, the A100 and P100 are so cheap that a complicated transfer is not worth it. Instead of thinking "i want all the plugins", i think it is better to chose those we really need. B2003 is universal (for all style) whereas Minimax , Prodyssey, ... are rather electro,.... oriented.

[kylie]

for example i do not have Prodyssey ( ). but i prsonally won't buy it at 200 euros for sure as i know the klang version (rack, external power) is just the double price.

that's where the winterspecial came handy. no, wait, I already got it in summer...

it's not only a matter of choosing what plugins to buy, but also where to store...
I twice made the mistake (not uncorrectable, since there is the transfer option) of registering a plugin to the "wrong" card, but at that time I had not the choice I have now. unfortunately I can not plug all cards together for having all desired plugins ready...
sometimes I want to load something and are faced by the fact that it won't load in the current setup
(and that's something I'd like to correct, but I'm somewhat confused now...)

-greetings, markus-

[bill3107]

yes you are right. I would definitly avoid Pulsar1 or luna when it comes to register plugins except if your system won't grow. We all know that sooner or later we need more DSP for big projects (and the more you try a good plugin, the more you want to use it) and i would always register plugins on big cards : Pulsar2/scope projects or scope pro... I have a scope Pro now and i plan to buy again a P100/A100 ; i will register them on the big board. It is worth it as - because you can gather 3 board - you will always keep a scope pro.

I have the feeling that it is better to buy a new board (scope 4.5, synth, effects...) if it is your first one or if you do not have any good plugins, whereas a seconf hand one is great to add just more power (an empty board can be quite cheap). I would add that a second hand board (i have good and bad experiences) is more risky of course. So, i would prefer a very recent or new board as the main board (register the plugins on it) and second hand empty board for adding power and i/outs... IMHO of course...
Second hand market helped me to upgrade my system when my budget was low... But i remember a used pulsar2 which was blocked (i had to send it to creamware), another one which was the result of a robbery (blocked too !) and another P2 with missing components (electronic elements desoldered during the delivery..). for those reasons, I would prefer a planetz seller rather than an unknown ebayer for example... just my advice...

Jo

[kylie]

i will register them on the big board. It is worth it as - because you can gather 3 board - you will always keep a scope pro.

absolutely. I have no scope pro right now, but the amount of pulsar2 grew recently from one to three, thus making the lunas kinda obsolete. but the latter were loaded with some interesting plugins at the time I bought them, so I did not only buy them for the simple reason of adding dsp power, but also plugins (and since my first card was a pulsar xtc, even more adding i/o capability at all... )

Second hand market helped me to upgrade my system when my budget was low...

mine is still, so I kinda depend on the market. I would not buy a 3dsp card anymore (not only because I have some ), but the next level (scope pro) sets the entry level above my current financial possibilities... and I don't know of an ebay or (preferable) planetz seller who would allow me to pay by instalments.

for those reasons, I would prefer a planetz seller rather than an unknown ebayer for example... just my advice...

I, nevertheless, agree with that. although there were recently cards sold by people almost new to the forum, so you can never be really sure...

-greetings, markus-

[kylie]

ok, guys...

some minutes ago I got a reply from ralf that the procedure works as described.
the document he sent sounds a bit less dangerous (as it actually may be), but it involves the mentioned procedure.

just for the record...

-greetings, markus-

[cassiel]

Thanks again for all the information.

I've just bought a Pulsar II from eBay, and will see what arrives with it. (A "massive software bundle" it says here.)

The whole EEPROM thing sounds interesting, shall we say. As has been commented, the problem with transfers is that it's much easier to duplicate data than destroy it, so I guess it's possible that a transfer to board B can require a permanent erasure of the licence on board A at the hardware level. (But would that mean that it would be impossible to transfer back?)

I'm on three OasysPCI's now but have never ever used a Pulsar. Adventure awaits, I'm sure.

[astroman]

as mentioned, it's a concern only to the seller...
But any transfer of whichever licence will erase all licences on the respective 'source' board
the seller,too, will receive new serials for all remaining items, otherwise the procedure would be just a time-consumimg joke

cheers, Tom