Who has more than 15 dsp ?

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:43 pm

Everything has been working great on my mobo Asus P4G8X with a 15+6 creamware system... until i add the P100 from sonictimeworks.

Well, we all know this great reverb needs a lot of bandwidth and now i randomly get "pci overflow" messages. Hum... I will try few tricks (pci latency...) and i hope i will get a stable (again) system.

I think it could be intersting to know who has a stable system (at least 15 dsp) and what are the plug ins + mobo you have. Just for those (like me!) who would like to have 30 or 45 dsp sooner or later...

Here are my data :
mobo : asus P4G8X dual ddram + P4 2,4 + 1Go ram
creamware cards : 15 + 6
Everything perfect (all the plugs except P100 that leads to random "pci overflow". Gathering a P1 has been even worse.

Hoipe it helps.

Post by **garyb** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:51 pm

intel d865perl
15+4+4(pro, p1, p1srb)
i have almost all the plugins and they all work.

dbmac · Post by **dbmac** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:16 am

2 Scope Pro + SRB (34 DSP on 3 boards) on an Asus P4C800.
I have lots of projects with >80% dsp.

Try rebuilding your pro and add the P100 first (so it's totally on the 15 dsp board). Some of the complex devices (Zarg synths, Warp's reverbs) don't like "straddling" two cards.

/dave

katano · Post by **katano** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:06 am

the pci performance is also heavy used by lots of active ASIO connections... how many asio in's and out's do u use?

ah, on which samplerate does it occure? i had bad exp with rates higher than 44.1khz...

greez
roman

[ This Message was edited by: katano on 2006-09-14 07:07 ]

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:25 am

thanks a lot guys, answers are very intersting.

Hey Garyb and dbmac (as it seems you can handle P100 and big projects), have you done some special tricks? Never got PCI overflow message? What sample rate?

As for me, my PCI overflow problem occurs at 48 khz. As for sharing cards (P100) , i have tried to run the P100 just with the 15 dsp card so that's not the problem here. It is true that if i work on 44,1 khz, there is no problem at all.

As for the asio, i use to create 20 to 30 asio source as i mix every track from nuendo into scope. Everything has always been ok (even if i feed all the channels of the big mixer 48/96)

Again, just want to stress that i have pci overflow only with the P100 (the 4080L works great). My system has been always very stable before. But when i add minimax or 4080L, that's to much for my pci bandwidth. Damn, i love so much this reverb i cannot live without it ! On the other hand it is a pity if i need to use only few synth or effects (2 diffrent reverbs is necessary for my projects). Any other tweaks guys in order to run the PCI bandwidth problem ?

Jo

[ This Message was edited by: bill3107 on 2006-09-14 07:29 ]

[ This Message was edited by: bill3107 on 2006-09-14 07:31 ]

katano · Post by **katano** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:31 am

On 2006-09-14 07:25, bill3107 wrote:
As for me, my PCI overflow problem occurs at 48 khz. As for sharing cards (P100) , i have tried to run the P100 just with the 15 dsp card so that's not the problem here. It is true that if i work on 44,1 khz, there is no problem at all.

As for the asio, i use to create 20 to 30 asio source as i mix every track from nuendo into scope. Everything has always been ok (even if i feed all the channels of the big mixer 48/96)

Again, just want to stress that i have pci overflow only with the P100 (the 4080L works great). My system has been always very stable before. But when i add minimax or 4080L, that's to much for my pci bandwidth. Damn, i love so much this reverb i cannot live without it ! On the other hand it is a pity if i need to use only few synth or effects (2 diffrent reverbs is necessary for my projects). Any other tweaks guys in order to run the PCI bandwidth problem ?
on 2006-09-14 07:31 ]

hey bill3107

i think you would never be able to use P100 with 48khz. this is also my expirience (have a look at the samplerate thread i started a few weeks ago http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 96&forum=5

it's to much for the pci bus, and you have lots of asio channels, too. for me it works best at 44.1khz, i also have large projects in more or less your dimensions, and i'm able to use 30 asio2 channels (in and out), A100, P100, Masterverb Pro, Masterverb Classic, Optimaster, bx_digital, a few delays, about 4 to 6 vinco's, 2 dynatubes, spl transient designer and attacker, ALL AT THE SAME TIME WITHOUT A PROBLEM!

So, you have to work with 44.1khz i think, the benefit you got from 48khz is to small to give up the P100...

think about...
Roman

btw. i have 2 PowerPulsar II (15Dsp's each)

[ This Message was edited by: katano on 2006-09-14 09:35 ]

[ This Message was edited by: katano on 2006-09-14 09:36 ]

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:03 pm

Stardust My Brotha',
I have found a work around 4 my 2 x Type II, 1 x Type I combination. Since all of these are 15 DSP cards I want to build an FOH / Monitor DAW, and a Drum sub-mixer DAW, using the 2 x Type I cards which are SRB's with no in's or outs, and buy 2 x Type II Project cards to use as my I/O connection. I will use a couple of ADA8000's as these are live rigs, and the fidelity will not be noticed in that venue. If I replace the 2 Type I cards in my new DAW with 2 x Type II 15's, and run them at 32Khz, will I see an increase in the amount of synths I can load. I now have BiOsc 4, Prodyssey, Solaris Modular 4.1, ProOne, and Morpheus Vrs. II, all at 8 voices with the exception of ProOne which is a Mono synth? I noticed a slight increase with respect to polyphony when I dropped down to 32Khz, and was wondering if you think that I would see an even larger performance increase with 2 x Type II 15's?

Jimmy V.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:19 pm

I find what is worse than having a type 1 card is a type 1 rev 1. You might need to get rid of the old card.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:32 pm

I'm thinking that these will work fine at a medium meter reading of around 60%, and since a Type II Project card would be the I/O's these would work fine in set and forgot scenario. The optimising windows might reveal themselves, but I would be able to use a work around when loading 1 large project 4 FOH / Monitor / or drum sub-mixing.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:49 am

On 2006-09-14 07:25, bill3107 wrote:
...My system has been always very stable before. But when i add minimax or 4080L, that's to much for my pci bandwidth. ...

I can't tell for the 4080, but with Minimax it's most certainly a loading 'inconvenience' of the latter.
I have 2 Pulsar Ones (hence 5 Masterverbs max).

Whenever the Mini is added to a project that already contains the P100, the bandwidth error shows up - and disappears after after confirming the 'optimization'.
When the P100 is added to the very same project with the Mini already present, then there's no complaint at all.

cheers, Tom

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:21 am

cool... it is right i am ready to avoid 48 and shift to 44,1 just to keep 1 P100 on all my projects...

I do think that of course there is a physical limit with pci slots. i am really happy with my asus P4G8X that works great at 48 khz with ALL the plugins (even 3rd party). The P100 is the sole one that lead to pci overflow... too bad.

i will initiate a thread concerning the new mobos available (pci-e and of course with also pci slots!) and see if teh pci bandwidth is more optimized....

Jo

jimmypage · Post by **jimmypage** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:56 am

I have from last 4 years one very stable system,now have added two scope card and now have up 45 DSP system

My system
P 4 2.8 no HT
intel d8508 rambus
1Gb rdram
geforce fx 5200
3 scope card

I get 15 masterverb without reach
I,m very happy with my system

[ This Message was edited by: jimmypage on 2006-09-18 12:57 ]

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:33 pm

great, but could you tell me if you use the P100, Minimax? Are you working under 44,1 or 48khz? Just say that because i have pci overflow only with the P100 and Minimax sometimes.

And you Katano, what's your mobo and graphic card?

Thanks.

[ This Message was edited by: bill3107 on 2006-09-19 00:34 ]

[ This Message was edited by: bill3107 on 2006-09-19 00:35 ]

katano · Post by **katano** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:32 am

jo,

I use a cheap Dell Dimension 5000 with Intel 915GV Express chipset, Intel Pentium 4-Processor 3,00 GHz, 2 MB L2-Cache, 800 MHz FSB, 1GB RAM, 2 S-ATA disks

128MB PCI Express x16 ATI Radeon X300 with DualDisplay enabled

greez
roman

ps.: i tested a bit yesterday and i could use near 100% of my 30 (28) DSP's. Also with A100 and P100, i was still able to load minimax... at 44.1khz of course...

[ This Message was edited by: katano on 2006-09-19 04:33 ]

Post by **garyb** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:18 am

i can use both no problem at 44.1 as well.
what is the advantage of 48khz, especially if you are going to end up at 44.1khz on the cd anyway?

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:24 am

well, it is just obvious that the more effects you put the better must be the sample rate. Applying effects will just be sharper. But i must admit that i am ready to stay at 44,1 just to take advantage of my P100...

Jo

Post by **garyb** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:27 am

what's not so obvious is that downsampling actually does more damage than the high samplerate fixes...

there is no advantage if you are going to downsample!

bill3107 · Post by **bill3107** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:53 pm

i do not agree with you though. Applying effects on a sharper signal (with more details), will lead to a result that will be more. ALthough you reduce the samplerate at the end, the basis remains more precise. You will take into account more details. If i exgerate, let's say a wave sound registered with affects at 96 khz, the 44,1 khz final sound will have more details than the same operation remaining at 44,1. BEcause some details of the effects have been registered ! At 44,1 khz, for sure you lose a host of details at the very beginning. Those details won't be created ! Of course if the original sound (synth for e.g.) has a 44,1 khz samplerate, it is useless to use a 48khz samplerate. Would you ear the difference after all? We all know that it depends on the entire process... good converters, good effects, etc... so you are right : there is not a huge difference. But if you apply a lot of affects, that drastically changes the result...

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:08 am

as you said, the (quality) difference between 44.1 and 48k is so small that the re-sampling outweighs it for sure, unless you use an extremely sophisticated resampling program - or one that takes ages for the job

on 96k it's a different story - (imho) it's not the 'more detailed' presentation of sound, but the absence of aliasing products that makes it more transparent in the end.

btw reverbs lack highs anyway, as an environment of pure metal and glass (to be able to 'reflect' these frequencies) is highly unusual

On the other hand not all aliasing is bad by default - a Linndrum is 28khz 8bit and supplies most of the drum sounds on Miles Davis' Tutu record, an Emu1200 and MPC60 are still highly sought and a TX802 with 14bit converters smokes it's digital remake regarding 'full' sound..., but my all-time-favourite is the fake Theremin on Air's Kelly Watch the Stars (a Casio SK1)

imho a careful choice of sources (and their mixture) is all that's needed for a good sound - but you knew that anyway

cheers, tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-09-22 01:14 ]