Some experiences with PulsarII and Behringer BCF2000 control

VenuZ · Post by **VenuZ** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:16 am

I would like to test it... Any experience?
Thanx

Jez · Post by **Jez** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:19 am

I use the BCR2000, which is the same as the BCF but with rotary encoders. I had a few teething probs with third party synths, now all solved. The midi outs of all the devices send controller messages, so the faders on the BCF will update when you load a new preset.
Two strange things do happen with CW synths, though:
Firstly, when you first set up the device controls to respond to midi, some of the synths stop making the right sound for the preset or responding to midi controller messages until you reload the device. I found that if you set the controller number for a few controls, save, then do a few more, you can save a comprehensive Midi controller preset. When you reload the midi controller preset, all your settings should work.
Secondly, when you load the midi controller preset, the devices go silent, and only start working again after you change through a few sound presets. Then everything works fine. This only happens the first time - once you've saved the project, they work fine each time you load.

I've asked CW about these bugs, but have received no response.

Hope this helps - I love working with the BCR.

[ This Message was edited by: Jez on 2005-04-19 07:19 ]

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:22 am

all the problems above don't exist if the midi cc are made at the development stage, which still allows to use CC presets like before (in fact it is more efficient in many respect).
A BCR2000 is on its way to spacef

I already have controllers, but I can't wait for those extra knobs

!!

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2005-04-19 10:25 ]

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:54 am

just received the BCR2000, (my single investment since a long time).
It works great except that I haven't managed to have the software editor to send the edited presets to the BCR.... I hope this will be fixed soon.

Parameter fedback : works great too (you can imagine that i tested it with DXD, which has all those pre-assigned CCs). But with scope it works only with midi. doesn't really matter, the Learn function of the BCR works very fine (you move a device parameter with a CC and it is updated immediately).
Well, all works fine, the leds are updated as expected when you change a synth preset, and there is no jump in parameters when you move knobs (which are good quality, it is quite precise).
I guess it can be recommended : it's better than other no-paramter-feedback controllers, and probably as good as more expensive ones such as the mackie c4.
BCR 2000 = 24 basic controllers (infinite) and 4*8 Push buttons groups + 20 buttons .
So that's a minimum of 56 rotary controls per presets + 20 buttons (or 52 buttons if you use the push-buttons)....
now, some parts are quite complex and the manual is not always very clear, but i've been playing with it for an hour only, and it does what i wanted it for... for the price, and if you want to make your software partially hardware, i would recommend it.

ps: i got it from thomann, which sells it at 129 euros, + 10 euros shipping charge, that's 139 euros....

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2005-04-29 07:00 ]

Ganool · Post by **Ganool** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:45 am

On 2005-04-19 07:19, Jez wrote:
Two strange things do happen with CW synths, though:
Firstly, when you first set up the device controls to respond to midi, some of the synths stop making the right sound for the preset or responding to midi controller messages until you reload the device. I found that if you set the controller number for a few controls, save, then do a few more, you can save a comprehensive Midi controller preset. When you reload the midi controller preset, all your settings should work.

Argh!! I've been trying to solve these problems with CW synths for ages. Are you telling me that you actually can control the parameters in a CW this way? What synths have you tried?

I've asked CW about these bugs, but have received no response.

They never do. I think I mailed them about 20 times about this.

Carl.

steffensen · Post by **steffensen** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:48 pm

nice to see people using their BCR different that i am.

guess i'm the only one using it thru Logic (just using USB mode) and assigning wich knobs on the BCR to control what in SFP using Transformers. wich is fairly easy.

i tried other ways before tho, but it just felt kind annoying having to keep track of wich prsets on the BCR i should flip over to depending on wich creamware/vst synth i planned to use. so i rather set things up as i go, depending what i wanna control with the BCR.

borg · Post by **borg** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:32 am

has anyone opened up one of the behringer controllers? i'm thinking of combining a few midi devices' components in a single handmade unit.

the bcr/f seems rather big.

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:52 am

it just felt kind annoying having to keep track of wich prsets on the BCR i should flip over to depending on wich creamware/vst synth i planned to use. so i rather set things up as i go, depending what i wanna control with the BCR.

What I will try to do is to have 3 or 4 presets for SFP stuff. That shouldn't be hard to do. Then i can switch between midi and usb according to the remote controlled software (device or vstis).
The problem is more about vstis I think as most of them do not have dynamic assignement of CCs (most of them are fixed and you cannot change them).
For those, it might be hard to manage, but I think a good technique is to define on BCR where you want you filters, adsr etc without thinking about CCs numbers at the begining (for ex, first row = filters, second = envelopes and so on). After that, I would assign CCs according to the vstis/devices.
CCs will change between presets of the BCR, but not the "location" of filters/adsr etc on the bcr... I will make a list of the presets of the BCR, and stick that paper somewhere near the bcr.
It is a bit of work at the begining, but once it is done, there would be no need to assign anything each time. I would just look at the list and select the relevant preset.
On some presets, because all synths and effects do not have the same number of filters/oscillators etc, some knobs/buttons would do nothing, but that's not really a problem as long as you know where are the "main" parameters (lp filter cuoff, res, env depth etc), and as the location of the "hardware parts" is the same on all presets, it guess it allows not to think too much (for ex, i know that those knobs at the bottoms are for the filters, the ones above for the adsr etc etc).
after a litlle while, I would know by heart which preset to use whith which synth and not to assign anything anymore.
Well, I know that some synths would need their own setups, because of different or numerous controls, but those are not the majority...
But I haven't done that yet

ps : the bcr editor software works, it had to be switched to usb to allow to upload editor's presets (in midi mode, it can retrieve from the bcr, but not upload to it).

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:56 am

On 2005-04-29 08:45, Ganool wrote:
On 2005-04-19 07:19, Jez wrote:
Two strange things do happen with CW synths, though:
Firstly, when you first set up the device controls to respond to midi, some of the synths stop making the right sound for the preset or responding to midi controller messages until you reload the device. I found that if you set the controller number for a few controls, save, then do a few more, you can save a comprehensive Midi controller preset. When you reload the midi controller preset, all your settings should work.
Argh!! I've been trying to solve these problems with CW synths for ages. Are you telling me that you actually can control the parameters in a CW this way? What synths have you tried?

What I noticed is that all seems to work fine if you load your midi controller preset just after loading the device.
Only after you can change presets. I haven't dug too much into this but quick tests made me think it was ok (not 100% sure though).
Loading a midi controller preset may reset some controls to some values, but they seem to be updated ok when you change the synth "sound presets" . may be all devs do not react the same it is possible.

I've not been able to assign CC8 to anything (in my devs). it won't "stick" on device re-load . so that CC number is banned from my studio

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2005-04-30 06:06 ]

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 5:04 am

the bcr/f seems rather big.

30*33 centimeters, (*10 cm height counting the knobs height)...it is not small, it takes space. 33 cm is almost like 2 octaves of my keyboard. Here, I have to find a way to put it almost vertically...

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2005-04-30 06:14 ]

Ganool · Post by **Ganool** » Mon May 02, 2005 3:21 am

What I noticed is that all seems to work fine if you load your midi controller preset just after loading the device.
Only after you can change presets. I haven't dug too much into this but quick tests made me think it was ok (not 100% sure though).
Loading a midi controller preset may reset some controls to some values, but they seem to be updated ok when you change the synth "sound presets" . may be all devs do not react the same it is possible.

Yep! I tried that this weekend and I made it work with Pro-One and Prodyssey. But with Minimax I still have some problems. Some of the patches get a bit twisted after assigning controllers - and it's completely impossible to assign MIDI CCs to the buttons (such as osc on/off). Weird... but I'm sooo happy to be able to use Pro-One with my controller...

Carl.

maakbow · Post by **maakbow** » Sat May 14, 2005 9:06 am

HELP PLEASE. it seems way complex to connect.

I got the BCF200 to controll sfp mixer. and or logic [PC]

logic seems way dificult to set up so ill settle fo sfp mixer to strt with.

How do i get sfp mixer to talk to midi via usb????...or must I use luna midi ports for this?

ChampionSound · Post by **ChampionSound** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:15 am

Hi there,

Sorry for bringing up a quite old thread, but I just bought the BCR2000 for controlling some Scope synths instead of using the mouse for turning the "knobs".
I made the BCR work via USB using midi-OX. That's the first good step.
I hope there still are some BCR2000 users out here who have some presets for some scope synths by any chance.
I am totally new in the midicontroller world, and have no idea what would be a logical location of the functions on the controller for the synths.

I have Minimax, Pro-12, Vectron (and all the other standard scope synths) which I like to control with the BCR.
Does anybody have a BCR preset with matching midi preset of the device itself?

I'd even like to control the STM2448 with my BCR2000. I know it's obvious that a BCF2000 is more suitable for controlling a mixer, but I don't have that one.
So I think controlling the mixer with the BCR is at least better than using the mouse.
What would be a logical layout for the mixer functions (STM 2448) on the BCR?

example:

First row rotary knobs (encoders) for gain
Two buttons for molo an mute
Second row rotary knobs for channel fader
... ?

Maybe some of you have a midi preset for the STM2448 with a matching preset for the BCR2000, or at least a short description for a good and intuitive layout?

I hope somebody can help me out a little bit!

Highly appreciated!

Thanks guys!