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Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:22 am
by cjw1378
Hmmm, okay, a couple of components for my new system came in really under budget, so I got a lot more money to play with. I'm now looking for a good pair of active nearfield monitors. I got about £2,000 to spend. What do people recommend?

Also, where can I find out all about monitoring? I'm pretty sure I want nearfields, but wha tother types of studio monitor are there? How should they be used?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cjw1378 on 2005-03-11 02:22 ]</font>

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:39 am
by marcuspocus

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:58 am
by astroman
keep an eye, or better an ear... on the room's audio properties :smile:

cheers, tom - livin' in a bass box :eek:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2005-03-11 03:58 ]</font>

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:17 am
by cjw1378
Hmmm, okay , read that, very interesting, however:

- doesn't explain to me about all the different types of monitors

- only covers the budget end, I've got £1000-£2000 to spend, if the expense makes a difference that people think is worth it.

The room they're going in is about 5m wide x 5m long x 2.5m high, and I sit in the middle of it :smile:

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:53 am
by wayne
Tom's just saying look at the room acoustics - i suppose your 5 metre room will have standing waves along the harmonic series of around 68.8 Hz or something.

this thread and this one contain good reads/links on that.

So, perhaps 2000 quid will be best spent partly on room treatment, partly on monitors.

Cheers, W

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:51 am
by Mr Arkadin
Oh, this is so refreshing after all those KvR monitor threads for best speakers under $200. You want good monitors you've got to pay.

Well, since i tried PMC speakers i've never even bothered looking at any others, they don't get better than these boys. i power my old TB-1s off an old Bryston. The active version of the replacement TB-2 is the TB2S-A which obviously hikes up the price a bit, or you could try the more diminutive DB1S-A. As you're UK based demoing shouldn't be a problem

Mr A



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2005-03-11 05:53 ]</font>

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:06 am
by cjw1378
Refreshing it may be, but I'm still a newbie when it comes to monitoring and I worry abotu blowing the budget I have on something that's not what I want or not as good as it should be.

As far as active nearfields go, the choice seems to be between PMC TB2S-A, PMC DB1S-A, Mackie HR824, Mackie HR624 and Genelec 8040A.
Can anyone recommend anywhere near Reading (or in London at a push :-S) where I can demo these all in one go?

That said, I'm still wondering if a pair of near fields really what I should be after? I have a 5m wide x 5m long x 2.5m high room with me in the middle and racks and racks of 12 vinyl along two of the walls. I'm looking to produce mainly dance music but would like as flexible a setup as possible. I do know that I care lots about bass and would like to be able to hear it while I'm mixing.

Should I pick from the monitors I listed above or should I look at a totally different monitoring setup?

See? I really am a newbie :smile: All I know is what I have said above and that I have a budget of £1000-£2000 to play with...

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:21 am
by Mr Arkadin
If you want to hear real bass (as opposed to flattering bass) then the TB2S-As are the one to go for in that size (obviously you get more bass from the bigger models, but size/cost may be an issue for you). The DB-1S-A will be too small for you. Also make sure you get some decent stands (sand-filled) as this will help you bass end too. You can also add a subwoofer at a later stage (though it starts to get a bit expensive in the PMC range).

i think you'll have to come to London to demo i'm afraid. i used to go to Raper & Wayman - but i can't get their site to load so i dunno if they still operate - try calling on 020 8800 8288 (if the number is still valid) or try one of the places here (you can even search, couldn't see anything for Reading though :wink:)

Mr A

PS. If you come to London i could come along help you demo them if you like (i haven't tried the newer models yet) as i love any excuse to try out PMCs :smile:





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2005-03-11 08:36 ]</font>

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:06 am
by hubird
I have this P11A from German A.D.A.M., check http://www.adam-audio.de/professional/
in some extended (musical) tests they got most points :smile:
I compared them with Mackie and Genelec, Adams won :smile:


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2005-03-11 09:53 ]</font>

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:55 am
by Mr Arkadin
Yeah, hub, but PMCs would beat Adams any day :wink:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2005-03-11 10:55 ]</font>

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:18 am
by Immanuel
Your room dimensions are just about as bad as they can get. Do you make music at home? Is it possible to swap rooms, so something else gets the horrible equal dimensions. x*x*½x. is trully a no go. You will have exessive boosts and cuts through out the frequency range. The standing waves you get will be on the same frequencies in all the basic diretions: left/right, front/back and floor/cealing. Personally, if I had your budget, and I had no choice but to use that room, I would spend some good effort on the room - especially research. You've really got to know, what you are doing in there. Buying 1000£ of acoustic "miracle" stuff is no guaranty things will turn out good. I am not an expert in acoustics, but on the other hand you will get a lot of advice from people knowing far less than me, when you start your research. Please spend the time to become able to distinguish carismatic writers who may be wannabee experts from the true capacities. My personal bet would actually be something like physically changing the dimensions of the room. You could make one wall shorter by adding a huge pile of mineral wool and putting a fancy curtain in front of it for better looks. Leaving 2 feet of air behind piles of 1.3 feet wide mineral wool will shrink you room to 5*4 meters. Then you at least only have to directions helping each other (the 5 meter and the 2.5 meter). A nice thing about adding such a pile of mineral wool is, that you can make it not go all the way, and then you can make an opening wide enough to pass sideways. Behind the pile, you can put up your PC - this will diminish the noise from it (sorry - I forgot you allready spend a good deal of dough on a quiet PC, but for others in the same situation, the trick is still valid). The treated room could look something like this:

Code: Select all


------------------------------
|________________________  __|
|    S                  S    |
|                            |
|                            |
|             Y              |
|                            |
|                            |
|                            |
------------------------------ 


| = wall
- = wall
_ = mineral wool "wall"
S = Speaker
Y = You :smile:
(the suggested place for your PC was behind the mineral wool behind the right speaker)



The basic thing is to make the room NOT square (like 5*5) or "multiples" (like 5*2½)

In my proposed set-up you are still kind of in the middle of the room. I don't know, if this is a problem.



********************************************

About speaker types
You have heard about near fields. Basically people talk about three types of monitors: Near field, Mid field and Far field. The difference is in what distance you should idealy be in from the speakers. Near field are most always 2-way constructions. They need to have the drivers very close to eachother, so you don't experience too much faze shift when moving your head. As you get farther away from speakers, it matters less how close the drivers are - because the angle between them, from your ears, will be smaller due to the increased distance to you. Near filed speakers often have less extended bass than the other speakers. Far field speakers will often have the most extended bass. They will also need the biggest room. If you put speakers with huge bassextension in a small room, you will get too much bass, because the room will "amplify" the low frequencies below a certain point.

You want good bass. The problem is, that you room is very "dishonnest" - especially in the bass range (but you problems will extend pretty high up in the frequency range). There is NO speaker which will sound honnest in your room as it is now. I am sorry to say, but that is the (99% sure) fact. However, if you don't want to modify (pun: dis-muddyfy) your room, or if you don't want to do it very drastically, you may still have one option. I don't know too much about this, but it may be the right thing for you. There is something called "critical distance" (the word may be different in English - I just translated it from a Danish book). When you are within critical distance, the room will have less effect on your perception of the sound. The less vibrant your room is, the bigger will the "border" of the critical distance be. It may be, that you will be able to get along if you stay within dritical distance. This does indeed mean, that you will need to use near field monitoring in you not-too-big room (I'd love to actually have 25m2 just for music though).

Find a free test tool to run frequency sweeps thru your speakers. If you find that sertain frequncies are heavily emphasized, it may be your speaker - but could definnitely also be your room. If the critical frequencies arive at multiples of each other (like 100Hz, 200Hz, 300Hz, 400Hz, ...) then you have a room problem. You may not be able to notice the fundamental bad frequency, so it may look like 200, 300, 400. Just as there are frequencies being bosoted, there will be frequencies being canceled too - these will even themselves out in your room, so they sound weaker, than they actually are. I believe Celmo made such a tool once. Othervice programs like WinISD have sweep tool. WinISD is a free program for calculating speaker's bass responses in various speaker cabinets.

Immanuel (I know, that I am mostly found in the off-topics section. I read most of the board though, and when I do write it often does get pretty longwinded (one reason I do not write too many serious posts :wink: )

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:20 am
by Immanuel
I am sorry, that the dimensions on you virtual room doesn't look square. I hope you get the idea anyhow :smile:

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:27 am
by cjw1378
okay, okay, my room measurements were rough, more accurately:

3.9m long, 4.2m wide, 2.4m high.

There's also lots of shelving, equipment and a fireplace to break up flat edges and the like.

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:29 am
by Immanuel
Sigh, that was a one hour post. I hope somebody got something out of it.

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:34 am
by cjw1378
hehe, no worries, the info was much appreciated...

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:36 am
by Mr Arkadin
Immanuel :lol:

Also he's got lots of vinyl which should act as a good diffuser (perhaps arrange them so some stick out further than others to create a random diffuser - i'm only half-joking too).

Mr A

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2005-03-11 14:42 ]</font>

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:23 pm
by hubird
On 2005-03-11 10:55, Mr Arkadin wrote:
Yeah, hub, but PMCs would beat Adams any day :wink:
never ever :grin:
but PMC pro's look good, except the attention drawing motive on front/right side.
btw - what is the price setting of the TB2S-A?

http://www.pmcloudspeaker.com/tb2sa.html

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:53 pm
by Immanuel
On 2005-03-11 11:36, Mr Arkadin wrote:
Immanuel :lol:

Also he's got lots of vinyl which should act as a good diffuser (perhaps arrange them so some stick out further than others to create a random diffuser - i'm only half-joking too).

Mr A

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2005-03-11 14:42 ]</font>

Those vinyl records makes very little diffusion. There are some physical rules, and those records will difuse nothing in the bass range.

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:42 pm
by garyb
http://www.abluesky.com

i have the system one.
best value for the dollar imo.

Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:20 pm
by cjw1378
I actually ended up going rather enthusiastically for the BlueSky MediaDesk 2.1: http://www.abluesky.com/p_s_gb/p3s7.html

Yes, this might be their entry level system, but it whipped the ass of everything else.

In order of preference of the ones I tried:

FAR OBS 5 - Amazing range and clarity, if anything lacking a little in the bass end

Bluesky MediaDesk 2.1 - At half the price of the FARs and with amazing clarity and an added controlable sub, these were my winner

ADAM P11A - Great clarity and range but seriously lacking in the bass end.

Makie HR824 - Pretty nondescript, not good, not bad

PMC TB2SA - muddy sounding, disappointing after the hype they received above :wink:

Genelec 8030A - again, muddy, no range, quite frankly disappointing after the BlueSky and FAR

Hope this helps anyone else looking for monitors!