PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Hi Guys!

If anyone can help me with this one...
I bought a new AMD based DAW and can't shake this one off.
When I use Cubase the system totaly hangs/get stuck when I setup and change setting related (I think) with ASIO.
Few examples are when I try changing output of an audio track, adding/removing audio tracks, Adding/removing busses.
another issue is that I don't have in cubase the option to add more than 2 stereo busses even after I've put more ASIO inputs and outputs in the SFP project.
When the system hangs I'm left with no choise but to manualy reset the PC. Task manager is not loading and when it does it doesn't stop the hanging.
Before I bought this system I convinced my PC dealer to let me test the system befire I choose between Intel and AMD based system.
AMD64 seems more atractive with its features but the Intel is reported more stable in this forum as a DAW.
I find it hard to believe that this problem is related to the fact that I'm using AMD. at this point I'm so down that I wouldn't mind changing to Intel, but if that's not the thing then I'll find my self with the same problem.
By the way, after managing between resets to build a testing track - this is by far a great system - when the file is loaded with all the audio tracks, midi tracks, VSTi and effects the system generates great sound with no clicks or noises even when my task maneger reports steady 90%-100% usage and VST performance is 70%. and CPU doesn't go above 39^C degree (I use a Zalman cooler).only problem when I try changing output busses as mentioned.

My System:

AMD Athlon64 3000+ (which I want to upgrade to 3200+ with 1MB cache when I solve this...)
Asus K8V SE (VIA K8T800 chipset)
1GB RAM (Kingmax BGA)
120GB W.D SATA
Gigabyte Radeon 9200

Pulsar-1 on Slot 4 (not shared) + A16
Midiman 4X4 USB
Virus Rack
Nord Micro Modular

Cubase SX 2
Reason

I tried installing XP in ACPI and also Standard PC but got no good results (actualy ACPI works a bit better...).
I tweaked window as described in MusicXP.net.
I use SFP mode (not XTC - which didn't get better results also) and ASIO2 drivers.
of course every possible this in bios is disabled (not necesary USB, COM, Parallel, Plug&Play...)

If i forgot to mention any detail - ask me.
If I'll have no choise - I'll replace my AMD with P4 3.2c (northwood) and my mobo with Intel 875PBZ. anyone think that would fix this problem?
Guys, If anyone has a clue - It will save my poor AMD from being replaced by Intel and from meaningless life as game station for another PC zombie kid.

many thanks to everyone taking a moment to help me out here.

Keep On Rocking!
Raniel

Hello.
Are you sure you've got all the settings right in Cubase ?....
A silly question, but you have set SX to use ASIO Scope ?....Have you reset all ASIO channels in Devices/Device Setup/VST Outputs (& Inputs)?

Plato, I think you're on to something.
I've already set ASIO Scope, but haven't tried the reset for inputs and outputs.
When I did, all the chanels apeared in the dialog box.
Still, changing output and adding audio tracks cause my system to hang.
I didn't have much time to test it. had to go to work - internet support, ("sir,
nothing is wrong with your modem. just press the power button..." ) so I know - nothing is obvious when you don't know and everything is simple when you do.
I'll play around with these settings after work, but if you have any other ideas - I'm listning. this is probably something so stupid and obvious, but I don't know what it is. (yet...)

ThanX for that one Plato!
Any ideas, obvious or not, from anyone would be most welcome.

Do you get an error message when the system hangs?
Are you using the correct MIDI ports in Cubase ie. the non-emulated ones.
How is your Midi configured in Scope?
How many midi source/dest seq modules have you got in Scope....you should only need one pair to get things going, but I think there's something about matching the number of mods to the setting in Device Manager.
Are you using any virtual midi port apps like Midi Yoke/Hubis....incorrect settings in these can cause Midi feedback loops which rapidly halt your system.
In your BIOS what is PCI latency set to...try raising it if it's only small to at least 64.
There are quite a few set-up tips in the support pages of the pdf manual.
Good luck, and keep us posted.






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Plato on 2004-06-01 12:30 ]</font>

Plato, I can't thank you enough.
I still got this problem, but the fact that you're trying to help me out really cheered me up. I was on the way do feed my PC to the fish along with my dreams of ever enjoying my studio.

This post came out long, I hope you won't age reading it as much as I did writing it...

I describe in the following the progress I've had isolating the process that cause the problem, but there is a more urgent question at the end about processor/motherboard choice that I need your opinion as soon as possible.

I had some progress and have some more specific data about this error.
The only things I found that are making problems are actions concerning input/output busses. when I start cubase I can make just one change with the bus and after that one change every thing still runs OK. then I can save and after resetting my PC and loading that file I can use with no problems whatever I changed. a change would be - add bus/change ASIO port (left is 1, right is another)/add audio track/change audio track output/add FX track, you get the point. that means that with 5 resets to my PC I could create a working audio track (add buss, s+r, change left ASIO port, s+r, change right ASIO port, s+r, add audio track, s+r, change audio track output, s+r (s+r=Save and Reset)).

this way (yeah, about 40 resets ) I've created 8 audio tracks that are working perfectly (as long as I don't change their output). I can use effects, edit, record - whatever with no problem. I even recorded 5 tracks from different inputs at the same time - with no sweat to my DAW. It goes smooth with everything no matter what I throw at it. I can also switch the waves between track with no problem, while playing. I found that I also can change the input of a track without having problems as many times as I want. however, adding input bus creates the same hanging.

I used task manager to monitor the problem. I found that after 1 change every thing looks the same (cpu about 10%, PF about 280MB). but after the second change cpu still the same but PF jumps to 0.98 or 1.2 Giga!
at this point I can still save these 2 changes but I can't restart within XP (after only 1 change everything is normal, I can still restart) and have to use the reset button (system is unstable. trying to close cubase, even with shutdown and task manager doesn't do the trick). at this point trying to perform another action with cubase - adding/changing/removing/playback - will cause serious hanging.

By "hang" I mean totally stuck. no error massage. task manager has no effect over the situation (cpu usage OK, PF 1.2Giga as mentioned). U know, I can move around windows if I wait 30-60 second for it to change but I can't do actions, I can end task but it gets stuck closing the program. that kind of hanging. at this point there is no other option but the reset button.

That was long but it describes exactly what's happening. hopefully that gives you some idea.

and the urgent question:
My PC dealer gave me 14 days period to test the AMD system I wanted, so if I can't make it work because of the AMD/VIA chipset, I can take P4 3.2c and 875PBZ mobo. Should I decide to stay with AMD he will order the Athlon64 3200+ (1152KB cache) instead of the 3000+ (512KB cache) I'm using now.Tomorrow I have to give him my answer.

I tried installing pulsar and cubase back on my previous PC (P3 1GHZ, Asus CUSL2-C Intel chipset) and got same problem (I've never used audio on that PC only midi, so I wasn't aware of this). Also whatever changes I've made in bios - PCI latency, ACPI, APIC, disabling everything, standard PC in XP - all made absolutely no difference.BTW midi is fine and I detect no midi loops or errors, in fact even when "light" hanging occurs (very rare - usually total hang) and some play back is possible - then the audio is out of sync but the midi still is!
The ridiculous thing is that the audio tracks work perfectly and I can make 1 bus change so why not 2?
I'm sure that eventually we'll get over this one , but now I have to decide. It seems to me after all these test that the problem is not AMD/VIA related and I'd find my self with the same problem on Intel system (plus the HT problem... ), would you agree?

I waiting for your reply.
ThanX again.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raniel Or on 2004-06-03 17:52 ]</font>

Hello Raniel, hope you're coping!.....This all sounds very strange.....I take it you have had some experience using Cubase etc, and that you're not doing anything out of the ordinary ?......I'm afraid I have no experience of AMD machines - I'm on a P4 2.8 with Intel D865PERL mobo and have now got the system working like a charm - all I can say is I'd go with what I know & trust.

One last thing to check...your ULLI in Scope...maybe try running at max latency - see if it helps.

As a last ditch attempt at working this out, why not upload a few screen-shots of your system (press ctrl-PrintScrn, and paste into Windows Paint) to give me an idea of how it's all set up:
Scope Project Page;
Cubase Devices/Inputs & Outputs + advanced page in VST multitrack (in Devices too);
Resources by Connection page of Windows Device Manager (to show IRQ allocation)...

I'll check here again throughout the day

Hi Plato,

All very strange indeed. And since I've had same results on my P3+Intel chipset I'm probably going to enjoy the same sexy hangs and freezings on that P3.2c system.

Well, in last attempt here are some screen-shots of my system, at it's best and on it's knees.

First of all - IRQ's

[img]D:PC-PicsDeviceManager.JPG[/img]

And Scope project (I always used Max latency, also tried different ASIO input/output with same results)

[img]D:PC-Picsscope.JPG[/img]

Now for cubase device setup

[img]D:PC-PicsAllMidiInputs.JPG[/img]

[img]D:PC-PicsDirectMusic.JPG[/img]

[img]D:PC-PicsInputs.JPG[/img]

[img]D:PC-Picsoutputs.JPG[/img]

[img]D:PC-PicsMultitrack.JPG[/img]

[img]D:PC-PicsProjSetup.JPG[/img]

I'm not using 2 PC's yet, but maybe somehow...

[img]D:PC-PicsSystemLink.JPG[/img]

[img]D:PC-PicsSync.JPG[/img]

Also VST connections (as I managed to setup with 30 resets... , but it was worth it)

[img]D:PC-PicsInputCnct.JPG[/img]

[img]D:PC-PicsOutputCnct.JPG[/img]

Cubase after loadin the save file. everything working great - Playback, Recording, Effects, VSTi, Scope, Reason... you name it.

[img]D:PC-PicsCubaseOK.JPG[/img]

And after adding 1 audio track this happens.

[img]D:PC-PicsCubaseHang.JPG[/img]

at this point doing anything in cubase besides saving the file (playback, mute track button...) will cause serious hang. after saving the file and reseting - next time I load the file everything including the added track works great.

and this what happens if I try to close cubase. I could close Scope and take this screen-shot or anything else not in cubase. (if I'd try to playback I wouldn't be able to do anything).

[img]D:PC-PicsCloseHang.JPG[/img]

Hope this gives you any ideas.

ThanX a lot. for everything.
Raniel

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raniel Or on 2004-06-04 09:28 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raniel Or on 2004-06-04 09:30 ]</font>

Sorry, Raniel, but I can't see any of the scree-shots.....are they appearing in your web-browser ?

darn it!
I that time of the day again (me doing something stupid and not knowing what it is... )
When I posted it seemed fine, but now I'm at work and I can see it too. The BBcode specify that I can use URL. I don't know how exactly it works. I've put there the folder name as such:
[img"]D:ScrShotsDevicemanager[/img"].
is that how it should be done? when I looked at the post it seemed fine, I guess it was loaded from my computer...
how do I load the images to the forum then so you can see them?

just check the planetz' faqs...

Hubird, I've read the FAQ - BBcode:

To add a graphic within your message, just encase the URL of the graphic image as shown in the following example (BBCode is in red).

[img"]http://www.totalgeek.org/images/tline.gif[/img"]
In the example above, the BBCode automatically makes the graphic visible in your message. Note: the "http://" part of the URL is REQUIRED for the [img] code.

(I've added " so the command is visible)

so I've put the path [img"]D:ScrShotsDevicemanager[/img"].

I guess that's not right.
how does it work? are the files loaded to the forum or there is a link to my PC (in that case I should leave in on?) or should I upload the files somewhere and link to that location?
Sorry, I just didn't get how it works...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raniel Or on 2004-06-04 13:14 ]</font>

You don't even need the tags, just type in the address starting with http.
I looked at the source of the page and I noticed that you typed in the local path, of your hardrive, of the images . That's not how it works, you have to upload them to a server then type the address of the server + image name.
That's the problem.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BingoTheClowno on 2004-06-04 13:21 ]</font>

If you need hosting just email them to me and i'll have them up as soon as I get them. If they don't get to me until I'm sleeping I'll upload first thing when I awake (5 hours or so).

I had a feeling that was the thing.
thanx for the offer valis. I'll send it to you when I'm back home.