PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

starcorp wrote:i ordered the xite month ago and i expect 64 bit driver when it will release. nothing less.
jan

Maybe we can kindly ask them to hold it back until the 64bit are ready.

Most of my songs are 2-bit anywho.

ns

next to nothing wrote:

starcorp wrote:i ordered the xite month ago and i expect 64 bit driver when it will release. nothing less.
jan

Maybe we can kindly ask them to hold it back until the 64bit are ready.

maybe they already are - not sure.

From what I heard/saw at NAMM, they were just buttoning up some issues with PCI cable, and finishing up manufacturing issues with the case.

Greg

too many versions of xite-1 will stop the sale of current version.
i have apogee mini-me so i guess i dont need the preamp but many ppl will do + its a mobile solution. how much money we can save by xite-preamp? $300?

Warp69 wrote:
I do believe that $1200 (or even $800) is too expensive for plugins - IMO the best price point would be between $249 and $499 for truly high-end plugins - so the next questions are :

* What is truly high-end?
* Do we have any plugins in that category right now?
* What should be the first plugin in that category?

Those are good questions. My opinions are below, but i would be interested in yours aswell since your the expert.

1. Much of what's high-end is subjective i believe. If its a developer like you making a reverb plugin then to your taste the sound of the plugin should be in the same league with your favorite hardware units that brings a big smile to your face. The reverb plugin does'nt have to be all the way as good as some of your favorite hardware but still in the same league in order to be "Truly high-end" to your taste. As a consumer Likewise, but high-end from a relative sense is it needs to be better then the current crop of plugins in virtual-world or as good as those who hold the crown "powercore" to a large group of consumers. The developer will know it when they make it and we'll know it when we hear it ..

2. I think XITE-1 will be top-notch in terms of dsp power, routing, modular 3, convenience, etc but no truly high-end effects/processors for SCOPE imo (unless new plugins released with Xite are that level). I'm not saying the SCOPE effects and processors are bad cause some are quite good actually to my taste, and i generally prefer the SCOPE Processors and effects over those i've tried of Big-name companies plugins on other platforms (i never tried Powercore, duende, nor Algorithmix tho). And they get the job done just fine generally. But to answer your question i don't believe there are any effects/processors in SCOPE that are truly high-end. Personal taste ofcourse.

3. The first high-end plugin effect/processor i personally would want for SCOPE is either reverb or compressor. ATM i'm satisfied with EQ's (Nugen Audio SEQ2, and Brainworx). I think Virtual-world is in Greater need for the truly high-end Reverbs and Compressors then other things. That's my opinion tho, i'm sure some may disagree.


P.S Your price points for "truly high-end" seems very low compared to what the rest of the market charges for what they consider high-end plugins (often my ears disagree tho the plugins are very expensive, but i'm no expert i only buy according to my taste), ofcourse as a consumer i have no complaints about your prices and hope it becomes that way.

Truly high-end plugins for me are plugins that rivals the best from the hardware world. Not many plugins do that. My next reverb release will rival the 2nd best hardware, which is still regarded as truly high-end. It's extremely difficult to create insanely awesome plugins (well - a new category - IAP) and it takes ALOT of time. Bricasti will probably not release another hardware box in the future, since the current product should last 10+ years - they will update the firmware with additional algorithms - the same is probably true for Quantec as well. Casey used 3 years to develope the current algorithm and will use 2 years for each additional algorithm. The Bricasti algorithm requires a sustained memory access rate of almost 3 Gbytes/sec - The algorithm maintains thousands of 30+ second delay paths through 100s of Mbytes of memory. Casey states that the first algorithm took a fast Intel processor 9 months SOLID of processing in order to optimize it (delay lengths and coefficients), and that the newest algorithm is taking a solid year. George Massenburg will release a compressor - combining analog and digital (operating at 384+KHz) parts - the unit was delayed because the required processing power was WAY too expensive - he will probably use multiple sharcs now, like Bricasti. I don't think we would get close to that quality in the plugin world for the next 5 years.

It's not easy to emulate analog hardware, because of the zero delay feedbacks used in both EQ's and compressors - the easy way is to process the samples at 192Khz+ with oversampling. The problem is processing power - would you buy a truly high-end plugin that used 1-2 of the DSPs on XITE? Not many would.

I don't think that Scope have any truly high-end plugin right now either - I obviously don't need a high-end reverb for the XITE platform - I would much rather have compressors, EQ's and especially Eventide like effects.

Regarding price - UA and SSL prices are in the same range (even abit cheaper).

Kind regards
Martin

O.K.

I have another wish.
You develope high quality reverbs for XITE-1.
You know you are torturimg me talkin' like this.
Count me in on the R & D.
I'm good for it.....

2 x ADSP-21369's ....hmm. I'm thinking I'll use 12 DSP's for the uiltimate surround mix, and 6 DSP's for other Synths, FX and SpaceF mixers.

Yes, this all highlights a very valid point.

With all the Xite DSP horsepower - what's really possible?

Greg

Warp69 wrote: The problem is processing power - would you buy a truly high-end plugin that used 1-2 of the DSPs on XITE? Not many would.

i will.

'I don't think that Scope have any truly high-end plugin right now either .. .'
.................

well than im sure you didnt try harmonic bundle;

this is NO emulation of existing units;
there are NO existing units!
this is new tech!

we spend half a year just for the frequency determination of the fundamental frequency!
and im proud we find a new way to determin;
it doesnt exist not in HW nor in SW!
we are faster in determination than all avail;
we even had to slow down the circuit to get a better effect;

i can tell you i know more than 100 ways that dont work;
i know a few ways that work but are to slow or not exact enought;
and i know 1 way that works!!
------

dont talk about the other tricks in for the harmonics;
dont talk about SAW at all which is new tech too;
------

you may like the effects or not thats a sort of personal taste of course;
(you may like reverbs or not too but there are a lot to choose from _)

as long as there is NO equal;
and let me add it is only avail for SonicCore platform!
i would call harmonic bundle as high end pluginbundle in any definition;


the low price is just a sign of our spirit vibes

Well, for my taste and considering the price, I think that we already have wonderful tools on Scope ! As soon as you have a good original take/sound (good mic, good preamp, good instruments and good musicians...) we can already have a ******* good sound thanks to Scope !

what does high end really mean is another story... A good emulation is just 1:1 but we all know that it is VERY difficult to review an emulation just because many vintage units sound different (e.g. : synth). What's a hight end comp or reverb too ? I mean who really notice the difference IN A MIX ? I am not ready to pay 10 000 USD for a "high end" reverb nor 800/1000 usd for a "high end" software one if the result is just slightly different. High end often refer to technical data / features that only few people will ear at the end (MIX). Whereas... every body will ear a good take or a bad one (just try to compare a Chandler TG2 with a Presonus ). Sooooo ... I think that (that's my humble opinion though) high end gear is sometime necessary for getting THE sound but when it comes to software, you must first of all trust your ears

Nevertheless, I fully understand that we do not have the same needs... which is great !

tgstgs wrote:'well than im sure you didnt try harmonic bundle;

Correct - I haven't tried the harmonic bundle. It was not my intention to be disrespectful to any one. Im looking for specific category of plugins - like Eventide effects and haven't found any yet on any platform except on the Eventide platform obviously. Second - I don't think anybody have nailed the magic of hardware compressors - some are closer than others - I think the UA Neve 33069 is at the top, but still haven't managed to capture the magic.

New tech or unique products doesn't necessary mean that they're truly high-end products in my opinion. We all have different definition of truly high-end plugins and that was the reason why I asked - Apparently SoundDesigner was the only one who would share his believes.

In which direction should SC (and 3rd parties) move to attract new customers to the platform? What should SC and 3rd parties focus on?

hi,

tgstgs wrote:
'well than im sure you didnt try harmonic bundle;


Correct - I haven't tried the harmonic bundle.

hmm ... interesting ... so Martin, what did you try, i mean a good try , not just open / close ...
and what is NOT high end ? except P100 for sure , that IS high end !

cheerz
olive

sonolive wrote:what is NOT high end ? except P100 for sure , that IS high end !

I wouldn't place the P100 in the high-end category.

And no - I wont make reviews of 3rd party products. I will only make comments about my own products and the standard plugins supplied with Scope. I would happily answer PM's or mails, if you have some questions.

we focus at the prof. artists and sound engineers;

course i know what crazy things they do to sound just a bit different;

and if their sound reaches the public all wants to have it too;
--------

if you focus at cash _ well than forget development and pull out a vst.dll every 3 months;
spending more time in pr than development and your done;

----
a smile in my face grows up when i read about 'new tech' from famos companies to determin frequency for defined sources for exampl.. . .
and i know better . . .

------

i dont want to sound disrespectfull to other companies too;
im just proud that if . ., then we gets emulated by them ;

original vibes from vienna

Maybe a definition of hi end should be made within a "domain" rather than comparing digital and analog......so, hi end dsp devices, hi end analog stuff etc. This also because a lot of the digital has no counterpart in the analog, emulation is only a part of it. I think that new technology brings new languages and new aesthetics. If you think that mastering compression was something introduced in the first place to overcome vinyl's dynamic limitations, how can this be related to digital? The whole function of it changes, it became a way to do different stuff....personally I hate squashed and dynamically flat stuff, I think that one of the benefits of contemporary digital is the vast dynamic range available, my idea of hi end mastering tools is not fulfilled in any way by any of the hi end analog compressors if used like it is now as the result sucks anyway, in my opinion....

All is relative.

tgstgs wrote: dont talk about the other tricks in for the harmonics;
dont talk about SAW at all which is new tech too;
------

the low price is just a sign of our spirit vibes

Thanks 4 reminding me of what I need to do on the B2003 today.
I have to make it sound as sweet as the Rotary cabinet I use live.
I have been trying cabinet emulations the whole time, and completely forgot about SAW's unique Wave cutting appraoch. Thanks Brotha' Man tgstgs.

Good Vibes From Lake Tahoe.



BTW....here's 2 examples of why the Harmonic Bundle is totally unique.

http://forums.planetz.com/download/file.php?id=4026

Solaris using SAW inside of the Dynomic.

http://forums.planetz.com/download/file.php?id=3915

Solaris using Dynomic.

http://forums.planetz.com/download/file.php?id=4448

B2003 using Dyomic and SAW on the crossover frequency of the Leslie cabinet emu.

These are great tools, synths sound unique, but vocals and instrumented inputs are better suited IMHO. Their signals and original sounds can be altered to unheard of transformations.

Thanks tgstgs...

XITE-1/4LIVE wrote: http://forums.planetz.com/download/file.php?id=3915

Solaris using Dynomic.

Hi Jimmy,

Freakshow sounds awesome (minus the distortion) - put it through some chorus/stereo enhancedment plugin and voila! Those kind of demos will sell more products - very impressive.

had no time to realy listen to _ will do _

the b2003 btw is the most tricky device to determine;
thers a spezial circuit in dynomic just for b2003;

the use of our plugs by the prof. is the second smile that grows up
thanks a lot for the demos vibes

firubbi wrote:

Warp69 wrote: The problem is processing power - would you buy a truly high-end plugin that used 1-2 of the DSPs on XITE? Not many would.

i will.

1 or 2 xite dsp is nothing for synths, most of the ones i envision would take about 3 in a high polyphony configuration...
1/2 an xite ("half" is what warp69 meant right?) is probably more questionable: i would need may be 3 or 4 reverbs, may be 6 if i can , but 3 or 4 is good enough, with a litle bit of resampling for some special effects i do commonly for my own works.
I already evaluated my own set up on xite that would take about a dozen of dsp (if 1 scope = 1/x of xite), a bit less in fact (10 is more realistic)... that seems to leave a high headroom of more than 3 or 4 scope board (this number happens to be the resource i used to dedicated to run a project live: i haven't been able to do so in the past, but that's exactly what i need in trems of composition, to keep everything in projects, without bouncing: when i had 2 scope and 2 pcs, i could go very far in track building and needed only 1 more pass before final mixing (where "1 pass" is 1 project fully loaded on 1 scope board).

I personally bought pulsar 1 for its synths, nothing else, mixing was done in bigger studios in that time, andin pulsar, it was quite anecdotic (the "Big Mixer" lol. what a nightmare it was to use...). Then the native world evolved and they proposed synths that were more advantageous to run on cpu... Native sampler also sent STS5000 to the dark pits of vintage softwares... still, scope has a very present sound, that i find better and easier to work with than native stuff in general, with a few exceptions.... but rarefaction of resources in comparison to proliferation of possibles, has brought scope to be used for mixing by the majority; that is still the best way to combine limited resources and possibilities in mixing, but that's still very short for "serious" work, eventhough it is possible to achieve by using the sequencers eqs/comps etc for the main parts and finalizing inside scope with group mixing.
Xite, will be able to reconcile the 2 worlds of composers/musician/producers with mix engineering, which at the moment is not possible anymore on a single board.... and on 1 cpu and 1 gpu which is also an advantage in some respects (yeah, 2 computers doubles the amount of native resources available, but doesn't have the flexibility of what you'd have in a single station, at least from what i experienced using 2 scopes in 2 pcs).