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FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:59 am

braincell wrote:Yes to new cards with all new modules and no modules I already paid for.

wouldnt you rather have less powerfull Xite ?

Post by **garyb** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:04 am

that's hardcore trolling.

Strattosphere · Post by **Strattosphere** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:33 am

Hi all

I can't wait to get the new 5.0 software but I have no intention of buying an XCITE-1 until I know exactly what it is capable of, or how expandable it is for i/o etc. I mainly use Scope for i/o, routing, mixing and effects with the occasional B2003 and Dubsub.

I wonder how much of the new stuff in 5.0 has been written with the huge power of the Xite-1 in mind, thus making it difficult or impossible for legacy Scope users to really use the new functions properly. Developers typically write code to fit into available resources, ram and processing power etc.

My cynical side suspects that for users like me who have two Pulsar 2 cards or similar, 5.0 may be a teaser of what we can expect if we upgrade to an Xite-1.

Stratt

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:44 am

what is so difficult to understand that
the XITE is the new card
with lots of processing power, less noise and heat senstivity, full mobility, improved set of IOs for performing musicians etc

PCIe is a serial bus - the external version does nothing but extend the distance a little bit, saving you a Magma (in case you were interested)

would you mind to stop the bla bla for a short moment of time to read the lines above for a 2nd time, so you may slowly realize that ->

SonicCore listened to user demands - they deliver more power, higher sample rates, compatibility, release an external and an internal device with this two birds with one stone approach
what else would you expect ???
that the DSPs are below the top cover to keep your coffee warm ???

now go on whining - it's ridiculuous - Kindergarten

cheers, Tom

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:02 am

Strattosphere wrote:...I wonder how much of the new stuff in 5.0 has been written with the huge power of the Xite-1 in mind, thus making it difficult or impossible for legacy Scope users to really use the new functions properly. Developers typically write code to fit into available resources, ram and processing power etc.

to be honest, I'm not a processing power geek with a humble trio of old Pulsar ones, so we share the same chip count...
I have a ton of stuff that I cannot use to the degree I'd like - and I'm very reasonable regarding polyphony, I wouldn't even play a Minimax but strictly mono.

Scope 5 will (imho) not bring a completely new processing architecture - most effort will have been put in compatibility (adjusting code to new Sharcs) and PC OS adaption

cheers, Tom

FrancisHarmany · Post by **FrancisHarmany** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:05 am

Yes its either that or a coffee machine with each Xite you buy!

with special SCoffee which keeps you Scopin` all night

Warp69 · Post by **Warp69** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:56 am

[quote="astroman"] deliver more power, higher sample rates, compatibility, release an ........................[quote]

Higher samples rates you say - I was not aware of this feature. Are you sure? I would think that 96Khz is the highest samplerate supported in XITE............

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:11 am

Warp69 wrote:
astroman wrote:deliver more power, higher sample rates, compatibility, release an ........................

Higher samples rates you say - I was not aware of this feature. Are you sure? I would think that 96Khz is the highest samplerate supported in XITE............

Actually, Astroman's right. 96KHz was largely unusable on the old cards due to the fact that big modules seldom could fit on the DSPs. This will likely be fixed by the new, improved hardware. Every time *I* ever tried anything at 96K, it wouldn't work.

The new DSPs are likely to be much more stable than the old ones, I'm thinking.

Fede · Post by **Fede** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:44 am

astroman wrote:the XITE is the new card

PCIe is a serial bus - the external version does nothing but extend the distance a little bit, saving you a Magma (in case you were interested)

EXACTLY!!!

I'll repeat it here too:

the XITE is the new card

the XITE is the new card

the XITE is the new card

the XITE is the new card

the XITE is the new card

....

(..his name was Robert Paulson...)

....so people asking for new pci-e cards look some centimeters farther beyond your nose!

cheers
Fede

Warp69 · Post by **Warp69** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:05 am

Shayne White wrote:Actually, Astroman's right. 96KHz was largely unusable on the old cards due to the fact that big modules seldom could fit on the DSPs. This will likely be fixed by the new, improved hardware. Every time *I* ever tried anything at 96K, it wouldn't work.

The new DSPs are likely to be much more stable than the old ones, I'm thinking.

Well Im able to work in 96Khz right now - Im probably some of the few who wants higher sample rates i.e. 192KHz and even 384KHz support. You'll still have the problem with large DSP modules with XITE-1 - it will be up to the developer how to manage the DSP allocation - more power equals less optimization in the developing process.

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:58 pm

All I want is the addition of 88.2k, but if the others are added too, then sweet.

--Sam

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:38 pm

Warp69 wrote: it will be up to the developer how to manage the DSP allocation - more power equals less optimization in the developing process.

thats an important point, imo. I think its quite easy to waste the 10x power of the xite with "overfeatured" plug-ins.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:58 pm

Why does it cost so much? Besides the extra power which is nice it has a lot of things we don't need such as analog and digital inputs and outputs. I already have them out the wazoo. I also have tons of modules. A simple internal card is all I need and preferably, one that connects to the others through a cable. We were promised a system we can grow with. This isn't a part of that. You want me to throw away everything I have? Don't say "sell it on ebay" because you know damn well it aint worth jack sh*t on there. I can get a decent used car for the price of this device! This is your answer? I respect you in a lot of ways astro but this is just not a realistic option for most of us and I am not sure why you can not see that. Do you know what the exchange rate is?

astroman wrote:what is so difficult to understand that
the XITE is the new card
with lots of processing power, less noise and heat senstivity, full mobility, improved set of IOs for performing musicians etc

PCIe is a serial bus - the external version does nothing but extend the distance a little bit, saving you a Magma (in case you were interested)

would you mind to stop the bla bla for a short moment of time to read the lines above for a 2nd time, so you may slowly realize that ->

SonicCore listened to user demands - they deliver more power, higher sample rates, compatibility, release an external and an internal device with this two birds with one stone approach
what else would you expect ???
that the DSPs are below the top cover to keep your coffee warm ???

now go on whining - it's ridiculuous - Kindergarten

cheers, Tom

Warp69 · Post by **Warp69** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:48 pm

braincell wrote:Besides the extra power which is nice it has a lot of things we don't need such as analog and digital inputs and outputs.

That should have been "......... it has alot of things You don't need such as analog and digital inputs and outputs.", since I need alot more I/O's than the current version of the XITE have for all my external gear.

braincell wrote:.............but this is just not a realistic option for most of us and I am not sure why you can not see that.

You're clearly not in the target group for the current XITE platform so why complain?Why dont you check out the Powercore or the UAD platforms - they have most of the characteristics that you like?

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:10 am

Again, I am not looking to start over. The point of the Creamware system *was* that you can build on what you already bought. you seemed to have missed that in my post.

Warp69 wrote:
braincell wrote:Besides the extra power which is nice it has a lot of things we don't need such as analog and digital inputs and outputs.
That should have been "......... it has alot of things You don't need such as analog and digital inputs and outputs.", since I need alot more I/O's than the current version of the XITE have for all my external gear.

braincell wrote:.............but this is just not a realistic option for most of us and I am not sure why you can not see that.
You're clearly not in the target group for the current XITE platform so why complain?Why dont you check out the Powercore or the UAD platforms - they have most of the characteristics that you like?

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:13 am

It's odd to me to start a new product line form the top down. It would make more sense to develop a cheaper product, grow your base and gradually introduce more expensive models but let's give them a chance and hope they don't have the same miserable, and totally pathetic business skills that Creamware had.

stardust wrote:I guess it costs what it costs because like any other new product it is not just dropping from heaven.
You need to design, develop, test, adapt etc.
Even if it is (thankfully) repeating the advantages of scope, it is a new circuitry.
It costs time and money to guarantee compatibility and performance .

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:08 am

braincell wrote:... The point of the Creamware system *was* that you can build on what you already bought. ...

that is exactly what the XITE would be in my case - I have 3 Pulsar Ones and aquired Plugins for about 3k Euro over the years. My original hardware lacks the power to make fully use of that investment.
XITE would host them to a much, much better degree

I have a couple of guitars and basses - taking them on stage with the current setup would be a PITA and a mess.

XITE one would allow me to plugin the instruments, amp-model and fx-process them with Mehdi's and Warp's devices saving me a small fortune in 19" gear.
Adding my old A16, a set of MicPres and a 1 unit rack PC would provide a 32 track HD recorder to capture the whole band, all in a small 4 units rack.
It saves a digital mixer, with remote control it can even serve as a FOH device.

I know a lot of people who would gladly jump on exactly that train, if they only knew it existed

Whatever I'd work out in the studio could join effortlessly the 'live-pack'

My cards are about 10 years old - I have the creeping suspect that the analog stages slowly fade away - as I seem to loose transparency.

Admittedly - the currency exchange rates may make it more expensive on your side of the ocean, but for decades we suffered quietly from the very same issue

Anyway, if I were to buy a bass rig tomorrow the gear of choice would cost me close to 2k Euro as well, just for an amp and cabinets - so what ?
It's quality stuff and that doesn't come for bargain. Period.
Still the afforementioned functionality of the XITE would be much more expensive to achieve with other gear, if at all.
It may indeed not fit your specific case, but it's a well placed product that really does adress it's market segment - imho

cheers, Tom

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:54 am

Fair enough but for me an internal card, the same cost as one of the lower end current Scope cards except with PCIe is *exactly* what the market in my house is demanding and nothing else.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:00 am

the major point is that they cannot rely on old customers only but need to adress a new (or additional) group of buyers

I really hate to remind you (Braincell) on a change in Apple's product policy - way earlier than they 'cheated' you with the Logic deal.

We've used certain workstations 5 to 6 years without being restricted in operation
and we might even use some of them today, if software support wouldn't have been ceased (intentionally).
Apple's revenues have increased tremendously since then - needless to mention I already subtracted the iPod figures...

cheers, Tom

Warp69 · Post by **Warp69** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:07 am

braincell wrote:It's odd to me to start a new product line form the top down. It would make more sense to develop a cheaper product, grow your base and gradually introduce more expensive models

Almost every audio company release a top of line product first and smaller units later, so its far from out of the ordinary.

SSL released Duendo and later the Duendo Mini and PCIe version.
Focusrite released Liquid Channel and later the Liquid Mix.
TC Electronic released he PowerCore and later PowerCore Compact.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

braincell wrote:but let's give them a chance

Agreed.