what scope 5.0 needs? poll

moxi · Post by **moxi** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:54 am

Scope 5 need before all of that to be FREE FOR ALL, it's really a shame to charge people for an update after two year (or more? no, it's impossible!) of NOTHING...

Vista compatibility? ... for the while, it's the only thing that is new with Scope 5...So SC want to charge us for an update of the drivers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure it's the first time a company will do that !!!! Nowhere when I bought my Creamware cards they said me that I will have to throw away for 3000E of gear two year after

They think I will pay 189E for the driver of cards that now cost less than 100E on flearmarket (for the Luna), or 200E for a pulsar!

TC powercore is on the way of updating their DSP rack too this year, and it's rumor about a "new" concept of modular environment with open and cross-compatible protocole like VST... so guys, I recommend you to wait a bit before wasting your bucks in a so shamy business...

from my side, I'm waiting to find a "regular" deal to keep my SC gears working with my next Vista daw, without re-re-re-re-paying anything.If not, all of this will serve to devaluate the price of the second-hand creamware stuff (and by the way will make obvious for all to buy new gear directly from SC

)

Side: the offer from UA let us think what is the true price of the software side of Creamware stuff, no?

Or maybe SC know that they are trying to sell an update that only fool will buy, and they probably know that a lot of us won't pay for this update, so "another" company (UA) sell a pluggin pack that won't be compatible for this update...It look like a FAKE competition, and a last try to win buck with an out-of-date gear, with no effort... and SC will be abble to go on selling plugs for a high price!

aaaah! what fuckers they are, this Chineses!

maybe in my next GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR trance, I will explain you why 90% of french shop (including the one I'm working for some years ago) have stopped to propose SC stuff since many year... unless this fuckin update become FREE OF CHARGE FOR ALL...

And if I do that, I'm sure SC will be obliged one more time to change the name of the company!!!!

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:08 am

moxi wrote:
Vista compatibility? ... for the while, it's the only thing that is new with Scope 5...So SC want to charge us for an update of the drivers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You may be right, but unless you have some inside knowledge how do you know that the update is just Vista drivers. i would say as a new company now is exactly the time to charge for this update to generate cash for future development - i would imagine the following updates may be free off the back of this cashflow.

moxi wrote: I'm sure it's the first time a company will do that !!!! Nowhere when I bought my Creamware cards they said me that I will have to throw away for 3000E of gear two year after

Yes, no other company charges for updates. The world is free. i don't remember seeing a contract that said all future updates to this platform would be free.

moxi wrote: TC powercore is on the way of updating their DSP rack too this year, and it's rumor about a "new" concept of modular environment with open and cross-compatible protocole like VST... so guys, I recommend you to wait a bit before wasting your bucks in a so shamy business...

Not interested in Powercore. Next.

moxi wrote: from my side, I'm waiting to find a "regular" deal to keep my SC gears working with my next Vista daw, without re-re-re-re-paying anything.If not, all of this will serve to devaluate the price of the second-hand creamware stuff (and by the way will make obvious for all to buy new gear directly from SC )

A yes, that will will be the enforced 'update' to Vista that comes free with your free computer.

moxi wrote: Side: the offer from UA let us think what is the true price of the software side of Creamware stuff, no?

No.

moxi wrote: And if I do that, I'm sure SC will be obliged one more time to change the name of the company!!!!

Yay, keep it positive for the new year why don't you.

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:04 am

moxi, running through a depression?

the update is free. only for people with older scope sfp software, they need to update their system to 4.5 to get access to the free 5.0 update.

4.5 update never was free, why should it be free now. you also get additional plug-ins with 4.5 and it is a fair deal.

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:27 am

look the 4.5 deal was the old creamware handling, soniccore now is the new owner, but they cannot give you the 4.5 update just for free.
4.5 brings you a lot new plug-ins.

Its only problematic if you have all the stuff already.

I`m pretty sure if someone has purchased all plug-ins that come with 4.5 update already individually and having 4.0 sfp package, Ralf could see this in the allkeys file and make a special individual offer, as 4.5 does not give any extra features apart from the bundled plug-ins.

I`m very happy that the dirver update comes for free. this is a nice entry step from soniccore and shows that they are loyal to the userbase.

so why getting angry.

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:29 am

You can call the 4.5 release anything you like, but it was definitely a deal that made most who bought it really happy because many people would have had just one pack & were given the other one free with 4.5. That was an incredible deal for a lot of people. The fact that 5.0 will be a free update for 4.5 users is just perfect & there shouldn't really be many people with cause for complaint.

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:32 am

aside from that I recommend soniccore to do some additional new plug-ins (synths, fx) to make some extra cash.

not that we don`t have great plug-ins already(synth,fx) but there is enough stuff around where a proper emulation would be great.

dragonfly · Post by **dragonfly** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:59 pm

Why isn't 64 bit Vista support included in this poll?

That's even more important than a PCI-E card, and that's no small step either. Both would be ideal, but if I had to settle for one, I'd go with 64 bit support first.

Cheers!

dragonfly · Post by **dragonfly** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:26 pm

stardust wrote: DAWs will work nicely in 32bit native processing with XP and Vista for years as far as I would see it.

I disagree. We're at a wall with 32 bit computing. 32 bit machines are already at the point where they can't utilize all RAM in the system. I've got 4 gigabytes of RAM in my PC but my OS can only address 75% of it because of the limits of 32 bit architecture. Five years ago my PC had 1 gigabyte of RAM, now it has 4. In another 5 years, I expect my PC's RAM size to have quadrupled yet again, to 32 gigabytes.
Based on Moore's law, I expect that I'm not far from the truth here. If I'm correct, that would mean, in 5 years, working on a 32 bit system will be almost impossible because companies will have stopped supporting them. Even if you still *can* use a 32 bit system, they will be outdated. Other companies will take advantage of this shift towards 64 bit computing. If SonicCore fails to do this, they will lose what little market share they still have, and the company will inevitably die. I don't want the Scope platform to die, because I happen to think it's the best platform for an integrated DAW environment available. I don't care about the DSP power, the synths, the effects. What I do care about is the analog/digital integration and the routing software. I've been using the system for almost 10 years and I am very reluctant to have to migrate.

That's why I want SonicCore to focus first and foremost on the shift to 64 bit, and second on developing a PCI-Express variant of the Scope platform.
Everything else must come third to these goals.

Also, if SonicCore manages to be one of the first to move to 64 bit, they might even *gain* some market share for once, which would be favourable for us users as well, because we would enjoy more stable support and possibly not have to wait two years for every bug fix.

Sorry for ranting.

Cheers!

dragonfly · Post by **dragonfly** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:08 pm

stardust wrote: So yes if there is already a vista 32bit, OSX and Linux support i would vote for a 64bit port using spare resources right now and immediately.

I can see the point in having OSX support, as it seems to be a popular OS in sound studios (for some reason I'm afraid I'll never truly understand).

I can not for my life see the point of Linux support. Linux is not, has never, and will never be a desktop OS. It is hell for development, it has little to no usability, its developers have no concept of the term "user friendly", and it is hampered by lack of coherence from top to bottom. It makes a lousy desktop platform and an even lousier DAW.

I won't go on bashing Linux, as that has surely been done enough by now, but since you brought it up, I thought I'd just voice my opinion.

That said, I think your argument has merit. Some companies will be trendsetters, and I don't expect SonicCore to be one of those. However, I do hope that they don't fall completely behind either.

It would seem we're pretty much in agreement, then, except for the part about OSX/Linux support. But that's largely a matter of taste, and no amount of OS bashing and flamewars will change that. I respect your opinion, and I also respect the freedom of people to choose their own favoured operating system.

To be honest, I'm not sure I'm a hundred percent decided whether to favour 64 bit or PCI-Express as the most important next step, but I have a feeling adding 64 bit support to the existing hardware platform would be a lot easier than developing new hardware from scratch.

Cheers!

MD69 · Post by **MD69** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:32 am

Hi,

As you all gived your thought about the "future on scope" I thought I could go with mine!

If there is one thing I would like to see, is a kind of inter scope Fx teleport going thru Zlink. The idea is to have old scope generation card running as slave on a PC and linked to the new generation boards integrated in another PC, all of them seen as a whole and plugin allocation done according to the board on which the plugin is registered, the scope window being displayed on the master PC. They could build very basic interconnect board for portables and bigger one for desktop. This would allow a softer transition and help building complex system either.

Dunno if I am clear on this idea, but I'd like to see this happens!

cheers

Michel

valis · Post by **valis** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:07 am

There's no reason that the current audio & midi i.o on a Scope card couldn't be connected to another system using anything that has adat/midi/analog i/o. That includes future scope systems. Z-link is really just an audio interconnect using a firewire cable btw...

MD69 · Post by **MD69** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:17 am

Hi Valis,

The idea is a bit more evolved! Think the multi PC as a whole. The Interlink would not have to be seen by the user, but rather be a "system ressource" which will carry midi audio and controls flux to the master which will have the only SFP window for all slaves.

Now let's think about a joint venture with plogue, and have an integrated native and DSP plugin receptor...

cheers

Michel

rhythmaster · Post by **rhythmaster** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:00 am

stardust wrote:Hi rythmmaster, did you try to edit cset.ini for that ?

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7566

@stardust: Thank you. It's working now. Sad I didn't realise this earlier although I read these hints years ago!

But it's never too late

rhythmaster · Post by **rhythmaster** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:55 pm

I love XTC and hopefully SC V.5 has many new surprises for us ...

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:01 am

- Resizable Midi controller list window with ability to freeze it so it does not go to the current received CC. ( the current feature that is able to lock on the current sent CC is cool too... having both would be great, the list is too short, resizing it would be great, to see a higher number of CC numbers).
- relative path for inserts in presets instead of absolute (if possible).

djsainz · Post by **djsainz** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:17 am

All I ask for the Sonic Core V5 is to be working 99.9% perfect with all current sequencing software and Vista. No fiddling, no hotfix work arounds. I will be happy if all I have to do is turn my computer on and load up Cubase and have it working with scope ASIO.

The rest of add ons for me is a nice bonus.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:18 am

what makes you think that Vista or 'all current sequencing software' does indeed work 99.9% perfect ?

curious, Tom

djsainz · Post by **djsainz** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:10 am

In these days nothing works perfect, using the 99.9% is the typical figure of speech I use when I think it works fine but there will always be something not right at some point.

Neutron · Post by **Neutron** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:34 pm

we know faster and smaller chips can be used because of the CME addon card thingy. it looks like it just used 1 DSP. a small one. and if they are using it, its probably not very expensive.

PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

what scope 5.0 needs? poll

what does the new gen. scope need?