Prodessey is available in Creamware Shop

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:30 pm

a physically modeled grand piano would indeed be cool

kind of 88-String with hammer, frame and body emulation and true sympathetic string resonance

not exactly kidding, Tom

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:48 pm

Matthias wrote:

And simply because it has one missing feature - as explained it has a reason - Prodyssey is not a bad synth, as you are trying to tell us here!

At no time have i said here that Prodyssey sounded bad - i said it lacked a feature that may affect some people's decision to purchase this as a 1:1 emulation as it is being touted on the CW site:

With this process, all hardware elements that influence the sound are modelled individually with full detail. The signature Odyssey sound is achieved

and

One-to-one reproduction of the ARP Odyssey III
* All features of the original were carefully recreated

i'm sorry, but those claims are inaccurate. In my dictionary all means all, not 'the features we fancied emulating, but read the small print' and i don't see that people should be kept in the dark as to the features that aren't modelled - duophonic mode is important to some people and i think i have the right to express that.

Anyway Prodyssey is a good sounding synth but selling an Odyssey emulation to me should have been a no-brainer; now i'm thinking twice. This might have been sold more accurately as a new polysynth based on the ARP sound.

Mr A

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2003-10-31 16:50 ]

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 4:37 pm

Mr. Arkadin. Maybe I was a bit too harsh. But all I could read from you - on this forum and others - was about the duophonic feature. So let's say it simply was a little bit too much for me. It's also not my intention to start a fight here and deconstructing the device by citating marketing text won't help either I think. Nail me to my word's and not to the words of others. I told you everything you asked for about the device. So please take my excuse, if I mislead or mistreated you. The duophonic thing was known to us, but we wanted polyphony. That's all. Best, Matthias.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:10 pm

Hi Matthias.
i think we can agree not to make this a personal war

, i just thought that the duo thing was important to note for people who may specifically want that feature, i'm sure a good proportion of users won't give a monkey's - especially with the polyphony. Personally i like flutes

(obscure back reference)

i actually think this is a good sounding synth from the brief time i had the demo - i'm not going to slate the sound at all. i thought it was quite a 'raw' sound (in a good way).

One thing that Oddity didn't manage to nail is the unique portamento 'lag', and i don't believe Prodyssey does either (it's difficult to try all the features when you only have an hour - i didn't even look at the second page to see the mod depth adjustment for instance, so if i'm wrong please correct me). i would love to have this rather odd portamento as it really does add flavour to those dive-bombing Billy Currie leads and i don't consider this a 'geeky' feature. How's about it?

All the best,
Mr A

PS. Will there be a pdf manual available?

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2003-11-01 11:51 ]

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:23 pm

The PDF will be available soon.

I'm not sure if I understood the portamento thing. Can you explain, what it's doing? Let's hope I didn't miss anything on the original

But I cannot imagine I did. Maybe it is linked to a specific model?

Here's one more obscure thing: The lfo from the modulation wheel (PPS) also goes to the filter, but only when keyfollow is applied! That was hard to discover, but luckily we did and of course we modelled it.

Best, Matthias.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:54 pm

Matthias,
Well from what i've heard on records, when the portamento is used to dive from one extreme pitch to another it seems to do it non-linearly, it sort of 'builds-up' to the correct porta time. Maybe this is just use of the PPC (i use a ribbon controller with bend range on 1 octave to get a similar feel to pitch bends), but others have mentioned it, so i'm sure it's not PPC use. i'm fairly sure it's on the MkIII as well as the MkII, but you never know. As i don't own an Odyssey i can't confirm this, but i've seen it mentioned in other forums, including the yahoo odyssey-patch list and they're real Ody owners.

You mentioned the LFO mod, does it behave like the PPC mod, ie. applied to both oscillators (with a preset triangle wave)?

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2003-10-31 18:03 ]

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 4:15 am

Well then the portamento should be alright. The portamento time was of course messured and I'm sure I would have discovered anything obscure. In fact what you describe is how most the portamentos work on analog gear. Fast at the beginning, slow at the end.

The PPS is a pressure pad. Pressing it on it's lower half gives you a small amount of lfo mod, pressing it on the upper half gives you a larger amount. Both depent on how hard you press, just like aftertouch. We replaced it by a modulation wheel and made it adjustable in it's intensity. The PPS might have been great at that time, but it's rather hard to use I think. There wouldn't have been a easy way to model this by the way. Aftertouch would not work the way the PPS did, because you do not have two pressure points. So we used the modulation wheel, because everybody is used to it. And then aftertouch was free for delivering the modulation from the CV input of the original. We extended this, it is always usable and doesn't depending if the jack is plugged in and the right modulation is switched on.

You see. Modelling a classic is really not an easy task. But I think we take greatest care when we do so. Some things are possible others are not, but when we have to decide things like the ones above we always do it with big respect so that the result really feels like the classic.

Best, Matthias.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 5:48 am

how should we put this conversation, cybercool?

i can't help to think about some sort of science fiction

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:01 am

I prefer the expresion weird fiction

)

Somehow it is really weird what the three classics Minimoog, Pro One and Odyssey do. Even if they are all analog, each of them has it's own sound range. And it can't be seen from a global view, one really has to dive into it

Cheers, Matthias.

decimator · Post by **decimator** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:16 am

No Spacef, AMJones was indeed referring to me !

Yes I know about the releases, I thought CW wanted to boot every native dev's asses : NI, GMedia ... etc

Apparently, Prodissey was launched before Oddity's release so that may not be the case and after reading some posts, I really think CW boys just don't care about the native world : it just doesn't exist, no competition from here ( correct ? )

But in case you don't know the people doing your mp3s are making them sound just a little better than native !

Well not all of them but frankly the single sounds demos of Prodissey, I just call this a joke or rather pure sabotage !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How to lose new users ( about the Pro one ): http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28589

"well, i listened to the mp3, and what i heard sounds (+ or -)like a pro52..."

It was an expressed opinion but how many unexpressed ones that lead to no sales ?

I will try the demos of the other CW products and I'am rather sure it will have nothing to do with the sound demos, I know, I know 128 Kbit mp3's but ...

Make NORMALIZED ( damnit ! ) files of the most representative presets that show all the sound palette of the synths : 5 to 10 seconds per preset, quick fades, higher encoding, no tricks : what you hear when you press the keys !
And well ... make as many files as your web space and bandwidth can handle.

It's killing me how such good products can be so badly advertised ( sorry for being rough but it's how I feel )

Back on topic : well way better than an another VA synth, I take the red pill, item sold !

Well not now but will be sold, I remember Oddity like a good another VA synth which I can live without, Prodissey I can't !

How does it compare to the real stuff, I have no idea but I was impressed by the sound : could it be better than the original ?

I love it also because it surprises me, I think ( but I'll " see " ) that the Mini and Pro One are rather " just " excellent tools ...

I'am not anti VA's, anti clones, anti retro etc ... like garyb : I want them all if you can release a new synth every month !

Like huffcw said, I would like a poll for registered users to ask what they really want because if you continue on your " we do what we'd like to hear " ( is that the case ? ) one day it could be deadly for you ...

Adern has proved you could build starships with your atoms and you prefer to restore legendary cars with talent, that's why I'am rather somewhat, somewhere pissed at you ...

From what I've read, an Absynth or such would eats too many DSP and are you interested in such projects anyway ?

If not, sell Scope DP for the price of a Powerpulsar to broaden the creators pool ...

Kind of a Synthedit community on steroids !

I think it's not so simple but I'd like to know if it could be done ... and fantasize !

decimator · Post by **decimator** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:59 am

Some more things I forget :

I had to add 12 dB in the mixer to make Prodissey " hit the red "...

Could you in the future incorporate in your synths a DC offset remover that kills " static " and " LFO like " DC offsets ?

Concerning the end of the demo : it asks for a serial that I don't have and since I cannot leave this window I have to " crash " SFP to get out of here !

Important OT : incorporate the mod2 key in the allkeys file for those like me who have upgraded to modIII, to save us headaches !

If you don't see, install SFP from 3.1a to 3.1c : try the modular with just the modIII upgrade key ... ( fun ! )

Thanks for fixing those little " details " !

sinix · Post by **sinix** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:32 am

On 2003-11-01 06:16, decimator wrote:
If not, sell Scope DP for the price of a Powerpulsar to broaden the creators pool ...

Now that's the best idea I've heard in a long time!!

Creamware, LISTEN!

[ This Message was edited by: sinix on 2003-11-01 09:34 ]

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 10:16 am

I hate to keep harping on this Frank but what people love about Flexor is it gives you a lot of bang for the buck. I would love to get the Moog thing but it's too pricey for me. I'm not going to try the Arp emulator either because I already own a hardware Waldorf Micro Q and a Nord Lead and they sound great.... which is exactly why my vote goes for more development of the STS series. For those of us who want total freedom in creating sounds with no boundaries.

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 11:49 am

Flexor was so cheap because ReD_MuZe wanted you could all afford it. It was not easy to accomplish, but the final price for flexor is very sharp.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:07 pm

well, I delayed my Flexor investment for the sake of a couple of tickets for a Hilary Hahn concert, which is probably a once in a lifetime event in this area

At0mic, that convinced me to overstress my balance - I'll place my order on Monday

cheers, Tom

petal · Post by **petal** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 5:19 pm

I just tried out the demo - Just a little warning: The timer doesn't stop when you unload the device.... - I only used ½ an hour. Ah well my mistake.
To me it sounded great, but I couldn't find anything that would justify a purchase, since I have the Minimax and no money. But I fell across one patch though that I fell in love with. I don't remember the name, but it was in the sequencer-catagory of the factory 3 patches I think. Perhaps you can help me. I make a habit out of recording these demos, in order to be able to evaluate the synth after the demosession. So this is a live recording, nothing special - Both files are identical, but one of them is with reverb, because I think it works better that way - For those who want the pure sound of the synth, I've included a dry wave-version as well - enjoy

http://www.skydebanen.net/~petal/Sequencer_Reverb.mp3 (2 MB)
http://www.skydebanen.net/~petal/Sequencer.wav (20 MB)

To me it has a childish magiclike atmospheare to it.... Ahhh I just love this situation, to fall in love with a certain sound and music

Ah well, I'l better find that million under the old floor now.........

Nice job CW
Thomas

[ This Message was edited by: petal on 2003-11-01 21:24 ]

[ This Message was edited by: petal on 2003-11-01 21:50 ]

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:51 am

Here is my comment: Read to the end, I think it's quite amusing

and I'm waiting for your comments (or those of others). With todays plug-ins synths have gotten quite affordable and you have quick access to compare them. Especially with demo versions available, comparing synths is like comparing wines

Cheers, Matthias.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:35 pm

indeed, I fully agree - and with GaryB: me too want them all

The avarage synth is about four quality Bordeauxs (though these may be considered a bit overpriced) or a box of good cigars.

And if one cannot afford all at the moment, there's a choice to pick at least one quality device.

But while we're at it: why don't you extend the demo time to the amount it previously was or at least 4 hours ?
It has become such a rushing process to put everything in that single hour, truely annoying if something goes wrong.
Noone will just sample that stuff, as CW synths stand for a dynamic sound processing.
Imho a longer demo time won't hurt sales figures at all.

my 2 cents, Tom

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 1:30 pm

But while we're at it: why don't you extend the demo time to the amount it previously was or at least 4 hours ?

My boss does not like wines, he seems to be adicted to Apfelsaftschorle

That's why.

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 1:46 pm

No one noticed CW demo's often don't time out at all as long as you don't reload dsp in any way and keep the device in the project?