Well done John.
I support your decision.
His post didn't bother me that much, it was just when he thread crapped, when people were trying to sell stuff, that I thought the line should be drawn.
Keep up the good work
DXL is banned
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John Cooper
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I considered having a public vote, but thought it could be something like a public lynching, and did not think that would be a particularly pleasant experience (especially for dxl himself).On 2002-04-25 03:19, ronaldmeij wrote:
Its better tho have fote system just like in the multiplayer games ,10 people online the fote and thats it...
Fair to the bone and democratic....
In any case, I had received so many emails and private messages complaining, that I felt that it sort of had been voted on. No one was sending me emails saying "please let him stay, he's great!"
-John
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John Cooper
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I fully expected some people to disagree with this ban - in the name of free speech and democracy.
I agonized over this decision, because this is only the 2nd time I've ever banned a user. The first time was very clear -- someone pushing warez, and severely abusing the forums. This time was not so clear -- DXL did sometimes post useful questions or comments (even tho they were almost always written in an abrasive and obnoxious way). But his efforts to discredit other forum members, and his constant bitterness and abusiveness far outnumbered the few times he had something reasonable to say.
Ronald, etc, please understand, I did not ban him just because he had a negative opinion of Pulsar. These forums are a place to discuss the pros and cons of the platform. You'll see in the posts where potential users are asking for advice about whether they should buy Pulsar, that sometimes the recommendation is not pulsar -- people here are honest and helpful, and that's why I think these forums are so great.
Everyone here has had problems with the Pulsar - that's what the forums were originally called "The Planet Z Problem Solving Forums" -- note they were not called "The Planet Z Problem Bitching & Moaning Forums". DXL never had a single constructive helpful thing to say to anyone. He was always bitter and his incessant posting was just poisoning the entire community.
I asked people to just ignore him, I asked him to try to be more peaceful... In the end, I realized that the decision was between total freedom of speech (and some of our strongest contributors leaving in disgust, dissolving the community), or banning dxl, and moving on.
People, let's move on.
-John
I agonized over this decision, because this is only the 2nd time I've ever banned a user. The first time was very clear -- someone pushing warez, and severely abusing the forums. This time was not so clear -- DXL did sometimes post useful questions or comments (even tho they were almost always written in an abrasive and obnoxious way). But his efforts to discredit other forum members, and his constant bitterness and abusiveness far outnumbered the few times he had something reasonable to say.
Ronald, etc, please understand, I did not ban him just because he had a negative opinion of Pulsar. These forums are a place to discuss the pros and cons of the platform. You'll see in the posts where potential users are asking for advice about whether they should buy Pulsar, that sometimes the recommendation is not pulsar -- people here are honest and helpful, and that's why I think these forums are so great.
Everyone here has had problems with the Pulsar - that's what the forums were originally called "The Planet Z Problem Solving Forums" -- note they were not called "The Planet Z Problem Bitching & Moaning Forums". DXL never had a single constructive helpful thing to say to anyone. He was always bitter and his incessant posting was just poisoning the entire community.
I asked people to just ignore him, I asked him to try to be more peaceful... In the end, I realized that the decision was between total freedom of speech (and some of our strongest contributors leaving in disgust, dissolving the community), or banning dxl, and moving on.
People, let's move on.
-John
I know his type. He did it just to be contrarian. No matter what you say, he'd take it wrong. Just plain bred in the bone.
I thought DXL was getting better in some of his latter posts but, just when you thought he was learning good behavior, he'd return to form and come up with a post that just made no bleeping sense at all and violated good common netiquette.
I kept wanting to post some verbal bitch slapping but I held off.
Banning is so much better.
I thought DXL was getting better in some of his latter posts but, just when you thought he was learning good behavior, he'd return to form and come up with a post that just made no bleeping sense at all and violated good common netiquette.
I kept wanting to post some verbal bitch slapping but I held off.
Banning is so much better.
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ronaldmeij
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King of Snake
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Gotta say that seeing his replies in that last topic also made me think "right that's it, ban this guy now!" so I gotta agree with John's decision.
Now I see some people claiming he got banned because of his negative opinion about CW, this is of course not true (as John said). It was his attitude, his continuing lies, accusations and insults to the members of this otherwise great forum. Especially when accusing the people here in a response to a potential Pulsarian and new member he is way out of line.
I say good riddance!
...NOW GIVE ME SCOPEFUSION!!
Now I see some people claiming he got banned because of his negative opinion about CW, this is of course not true (as John said). It was his attitude, his continuing lies, accusations and insults to the members of this otherwise great forum. Especially when accusing the people here in a response to a potential Pulsarian and new member he is way out of line.
I say good riddance!
...NOW GIVE ME SCOPEFUSION!!
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Nestor
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<FONT COLOR="white">I've never talked to Dxl because I found his way very unpleasant indeed and bizarre as well. Nevertheless, I've never insulted or incriminated him cos I thought it was inappropriate to do it openly. I've neither asked John to ban him or anything of the like.
There certainly are many ways of doing the very same things in life.
When you feel uncomfortable with someone, it's always better to talk privately and when the time is arrived to talk about the matter openly, because the situation demands so, you have to face it up as well. This is what I'm trying honestly to do now, with this post.
To say that Dxl was improving and getting better with time, is a bit out of reality to my perception. That is a way to say he is unintelligent or even brainless. I don't think he is unintelligent, on the contrary, but I agree with those who consider his posts completely stupid and useless, and most annoying of all, densely aggressive!
If you were to write coherent arguments against Pulsar System, against Creamware… If you were to make me THINK, if these posts were intelligent, interesting, respectful, I would give it it's deserved esteem and even would sacrifice some time to read it fully! If you were to point out bugs, deficiencies of the product, which of course there are a few, I would completely agree and would consider it worthwhile, but if the posts are just kind of “EMOTIONAL” staff that gets no where, it's not worthwhile! Even like that, I can agree or disagree, but if its becomes aggressive nonsense I prefer for it to stop because it takes a precious time that otherwise would be used to read interesting and useful posts.
By the end of it, I was feeling really bothered with his void posts. I just avoided reading them at all! Particularly avoiding answering not to get involved...
Unfortunately, to understand the rest of a particular thread, you have to go through all the readings, so I did eventually when I wanted to know something particular. So there I experienced this alienation of intention from his part.
I think it's exceptionally relevant to put ourselves in John's place right away, to understand where he is coming from. He is a very committed and serviceable person. Every time we asked for a new area in the forum he opened it for us keeping it clean and working smoothly. He receives many, many mails from us for different reasons, needs, and problems. I've always been answered immediately after having written him for a request. The last time was about loading music into the forum, cos I didn't really know how to, he doesn't bother to answer everybody even if it takes quite a while to do so. Who of us would do it? Would you? There is a lot of dedication in here!
Personally, when I put lot of time doing something, I become more involved with it. If I was John, I would have had a hard conversation with this person, and then, if he didn't want to repair the harm I would forcefully put him out of the forum like he did. John has warned him several times; this is fair enough to say him "well, that's all man", especially if you DO NOT answer!
Freedom of speech is great! SPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY. But freedom, for the seek of freedom itself, is anarchy!
Let's say that: Justice without mercy is tyranny and Mercy without Justice is complacency with stupidity!
Non of both are advisable, are they?
I support the work of John to the most, and understand that to deal with people is not a simple matter. Please, be conscious of your postings and be fair to John... It's not fear to defend Dxl now, and saying to John: “Hey John, this is out of place to have banned Dxl”. If you think that way you are not getting the real point here.
John deserves for us to be grateful to his commitment and service, which I consider is the least you can say.
To put on the right track a forum like this one, you need some knowledge, and to get this knowledge implicates studying quite much to be able to do it. This is time, this is effort, this is commitment!
I believe that YOU, people of PlanetZ, are very cleaver people and deserve to be given respect. Because you are intelligent – and please, understand I'm in no way being sarcastic, this is what I really believe - you can and understand the marvellous gift of respect to others.
Nevertheless, to be respectful to others doesn't mean to be an idiot!
I would like, please, after all of us have expressed their ideas, to DELETE all the threats and posts in relation with it, including this very one. If we don't, we risk that every new member reading them will get involved and this story will never end...
Let's go on with what we are here for: studying, learning, someday teaching something we have learned, sharing enthusiasm and making music, please.</FONT>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nestor on 2002-04-25 17:24 ]</font>
There certainly are many ways of doing the very same things in life.
When you feel uncomfortable with someone, it's always better to talk privately and when the time is arrived to talk about the matter openly, because the situation demands so, you have to face it up as well. This is what I'm trying honestly to do now, with this post.
To say that Dxl was improving and getting better with time, is a bit out of reality to my perception. That is a way to say he is unintelligent or even brainless. I don't think he is unintelligent, on the contrary, but I agree with those who consider his posts completely stupid and useless, and most annoying of all, densely aggressive!
If you were to write coherent arguments against Pulsar System, against Creamware… If you were to make me THINK, if these posts were intelligent, interesting, respectful, I would give it it's deserved esteem and even would sacrifice some time to read it fully! If you were to point out bugs, deficiencies of the product, which of course there are a few, I would completely agree and would consider it worthwhile, but if the posts are just kind of “EMOTIONAL” staff that gets no where, it's not worthwhile! Even like that, I can agree or disagree, but if its becomes aggressive nonsense I prefer for it to stop because it takes a precious time that otherwise would be used to read interesting and useful posts.
By the end of it, I was feeling really bothered with his void posts. I just avoided reading them at all! Particularly avoiding answering not to get involved...
Unfortunately, to understand the rest of a particular thread, you have to go through all the readings, so I did eventually when I wanted to know something particular. So there I experienced this alienation of intention from his part.
I think it's exceptionally relevant to put ourselves in John's place right away, to understand where he is coming from. He is a very committed and serviceable person. Every time we asked for a new area in the forum he opened it for us keeping it clean and working smoothly. He receives many, many mails from us for different reasons, needs, and problems. I've always been answered immediately after having written him for a request. The last time was about loading music into the forum, cos I didn't really know how to, he doesn't bother to answer everybody even if it takes quite a while to do so. Who of us would do it? Would you? There is a lot of dedication in here!
Personally, when I put lot of time doing something, I become more involved with it. If I was John, I would have had a hard conversation with this person, and then, if he didn't want to repair the harm I would forcefully put him out of the forum like he did. John has warned him several times; this is fair enough to say him "well, that's all man", especially if you DO NOT answer!
Freedom of speech is great! SPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY. But freedom, for the seek of freedom itself, is anarchy!
Let's say that: Justice without mercy is tyranny and Mercy without Justice is complacency with stupidity!
Non of both are advisable, are they?
I support the work of John to the most, and understand that to deal with people is not a simple matter. Please, be conscious of your postings and be fair to John... It's not fear to defend Dxl now, and saying to John: “Hey John, this is out of place to have banned Dxl”. If you think that way you are not getting the real point here.
John deserves for us to be grateful to his commitment and service, which I consider is the least you can say.
To put on the right track a forum like this one, you need some knowledge, and to get this knowledge implicates studying quite much to be able to do it. This is time, this is effort, this is commitment!
I believe that YOU, people of PlanetZ, are very cleaver people and deserve to be given respect. Because you are intelligent – and please, understand I'm in no way being sarcastic, this is what I really believe - you can and understand the marvellous gift of respect to others.
Nevertheless, to be respectful to others doesn't mean to be an idiot!
I would like, please, after all of us have expressed their ideas, to DELETE all the threats and posts in relation with it, including this very one. If we don't, we risk that every new member reading them will get involved and this story will never end...
Let's go on with what we are here for: studying, learning, someday teaching something we have learned, sharing enthusiasm and making music, please.</FONT>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nestor on 2002-04-25 17:24 ]</font>
dxl is sometimes iritant, but i see that we was many times iritant to him without reason.
dxl sometimes said worst thing to us, but didn't said half worst things what we said to him... and he didn't start first always.
so, dxl is first! who is next?
do we have same rules for all?
john, please be kind and back dxl here with same user name and same signature?
_________________
I'm still seeing new things in life.
http://www.mp3.com/dxl
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sandrob on 2002-04-26 04:53 ]</font>
dxl sometimes said worst thing to us, but didn't said half worst things what we said to him... and he didn't start first always.
so, dxl is first! who is next?
do we have same rules for all?
john, please be kind and back dxl here with same user name and same signature?
_________________
I'm still seeing new things in life.
http://www.mp3.com/dxl
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sandrob on 2002-04-26 04:53 ]</font>
1.Sandro, dxl could be back today if he wants, I'm shure of that! It's about respect; the question is, if he respected John enough. Do you think that he does? It's not so much about democracy, it's about respect and the very difficult task to tell someone. So dxl made John angry. He can still say, 'John, I'm trying to get the message, I think I got it, I respect that, please let me join again.' ...or whatever in that regard.
2.If I'd be a programmer, and I do hard work for the people, and I don't get respected, but always get something like: 'It's not good enough, do this and do that and more quickly, and fuck you anyway...' thus to get blamed for giving my best, then at some point I will get angry. So what we'd like to do here is, yes, give feedback if we are happy and/or not (I want to have the Sampler-crackles fixed!), but still being supportive and grateful! Thats the 'ideals' of ours. Otherwise it's very sad and too much 'downing' hurts and does not do any good! (That's why it *hurts* many!)
Me thinks dxl should be receptive to this and receive and respect us too, as we do respect him! dxl's ideal is to speak the truth even if it's negative, yes, but he should consider if it's worth at the cost of openess and friendship to speak *mostly* of the negative, if that's not appreciated!
So I guess, he is temporarily banned, although I know, that there are very few people around who would go into a feeling of remorse instead of blame...
Sad. It's only life!
2.If I'd be a programmer, and I do hard work for the people, and I don't get respected, but always get something like: 'It's not good enough, do this and do that and more quickly, and fuck you anyway...' thus to get blamed for giving my best, then at some point I will get angry. So what we'd like to do here is, yes, give feedback if we are happy and/or not (I want to have the Sampler-crackles fixed!), but still being supportive and grateful! Thats the 'ideals' of ours. Otherwise it's very sad and too much 'downing' hurts and does not do any good! (That's why it *hurts* many!)
Me thinks dxl should be receptive to this and receive and respect us too, as we do respect him! dxl's ideal is to speak the truth even if it's negative, yes, but he should consider if it's worth at the cost of openess and friendship to speak *mostly* of the negative, if that's not appreciated!
So I guess, he is temporarily banned, although I know, that there are very few people around who would go into a feeling of remorse instead of blame...
Sad. It's only life!