PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

braincell wrote:Hello.... did you hear Cubase 4.1 effects and synthesizers? If you haven't played with it, then you shouldn't be making that comment. I don't think you would be saying that if you did. To be fair Scope sounds different but lets face it, there hasn't been *any* development to the Scope platform in years and you guys are falling behind.

Yeah, all the development that occurred on Model-E, The Grand, Halion, the Palm thing etc. Steinberg update shit and i know it. They just change it every so often so that you buy a new version - not necessarily a better version. i still use VST32 (not for much longer) because of their shitty so-called 'upgrade' policy (hey where's the final release of VST32 we were promised?). At least Scope software has been downwardly compatible - not sure that they'll be able to do that if they ever go over to new Sharcs but it's been a good ride on this version.

Steinberg are hardly the most responsive company in the world - i've been with them since Pro24, but no more.

braincell wrote:Cubase won't even fit on a CD anymore.

Yes cause bigger is always better innit? i find Cubase a bloated fat bastard (and not in the good scope4live sense). Strip it to the essentials i want and it would probably fit on a floppy, but then it wouldn't have all the things you want, like Rewire (never use) etc. You can't please all the people all the time. You're the first person who has even suggested Scope having Rewire - do you think they're going to spend hours developing that for very little reward (i know no-one who uses it).

Anyway i can't see why you bash Scope - no system is an all-in-one. i know that's what the kiddiez want, but in reality music is made from disparate things coming together, otherwise we'd all sound like A.N.Other Cubase 4 track.

This thread is about Cubase 4.1 since so many of us use Cubase. You don't like the Cubase upgrade policy? This one is free. How do you like the Scope upgrade policy? As in:

NO UPGRADES!!!!

Well i upgraded from Pulsar 2.04 to 3.01 to 3.1c to 4.5. No upgrades? Really? OK some of them i paid a bit for for some extras, but there were unpaid options too (like to 4.0). ALL were downwardly compatible.

Steinberg upgrade policy: VST32 (don't get promised final version) to SX - paid upgrade. SX (don't get promised final version) to Cubase 4 - paid upgrade. How long before Cubase 4 is not upgradable in Steinberg's eyes and you have to pay for Cubase 5 (without them ever finishing Cubase 4 i assume)?

Oh and if you want to keep the thread about Cubase 4 then why do you bash Scope at every opportunity?

well for me Steinberg was and is a midi sequencer till years...
And here it rules over all other sequencers, piano roll and mouse editing features are great implemented.

While I use it for audio these days too, I still think they never had a good hand at building plug-ins.

Their effects always sucked and so their synths too...

The roomworks is not directly a steinberg development, but its far from high-quality, although being better than their ealier Reverb A+B metal resonators.

The A1 was a waldorf development, but sounded more like waldorf have saved the good sounding stuff for their own hardware.

The other effects you have listed don`t impress me that much.

The Halion one is just a cut down halion sampler. nothing special...

the 3 other synths may just be attraction points to force existing steinberg users to upgrade to the new version.
The GUI seems nice, but in this case I am afraid that the same weak soundengines are working behind like in all other steinberg synth....

My opinion is: there are better things to spend your money on.

Question, why rave about this stuff? scope really has better things in every area, especially the synths are way way way better.
the fx too,
and well we got sidechaining...

braincell wrote:This thread is about Cubase 4.1 since so many of us use Cubase. You don't like the Cubase upgrade policy? This one is free. How do you like the Scope upgrade policy? As in:

NO UPGRADES!!!!

You seem to be confusing the (now generally accepted) difference between software upGRADES and upDATES.

UpGRADES are usually charged for (and include new features - as well as (often as not) new bugs. Sometimes, existing features are even removed!

As you may know, the last "upgrade" to Cubase 4 actually removed Direct X support (without any prior warning from Steinberg), which rules it (and any subsequent updates) completely out of the question for me.

UpDATES (such as Cubase 4.1) are, of course, not "free" at all but included in the price of the "upgrade". This is normal practice. Updates are usually mainly bug-fixes with maybe a few minor improvements to the software.

One of the many problems with Steinberg as a company is that they offer remarkably few of these interim updates compared to other software companies (which would be fine if everything was reasonably bug-free and working properly in the first place, but invariably with Steinberg that is not the case - they are notorious for rushing the release of new versions).

Often, long standing bugs are even then not fixed before they expect users to buy the next "upgrade" - if I remember correctly, this has been the case with every Cubase version since at least VST 5 - and so it goes on until a sufficient number of users get wise to this game and refuse to pay for any new "upgrades" until they have a properly working current version (clearly, this hasn't yet happened!).

You are partially right about Scope though - although there have been both upgrades and updates in the past, there has been none for a long time now. But at least the system still generally works very well. Of course, it's also important to remember that a Scope package isn't just the software, we also have a great piece of hardware with on-board DSP, brilliant-sounding synths and sound processors together with a comprehensive I/O system too!

Regards,

Badger

I am a slow starter and installed Cubase 4.1 update yesterday.
I had it downloaded 2-3 weeks ago, but was watching from the sideline, since there seems to be some ASIO trouble.
My update was successful.................and as a bonus i think, i got 137% installed, verry impressive (now i understand why Steinberg programs are so expensive) - so i guess i'm up to Cubase 4.2

Judging so far, the update is twice as good as the 4.0.
Why?
Some maths:
Yesterday - before update: 2 bluescreens - after: 1 bluescreen
2/1=2

arela wrote:...and as a bonus i think, i got 137% installed, verry impressive (now i understand why Steinberg programs are so expensive)

Blimey - sounds like Steinberg should make guitar amps then - they'd clean up if they applied that principle and made them all go up to 14!

Regards,

B

This should have been called a free update versus the last Scope upgrade which was more like an update since it really had nothing new in it except the inclusion of things they wanted us to buy.

you are angry?

No, I'm very happy with the rapid improvement, low cost and ease of use of the SFP.

just a little question, I'm curious.
Do you use your DAW for home/hobby or pro needs?
Don't get me wrong, I'm really interested in understanding your point of view, so I need the whole vision.

I use it for my recreation, but I expect professional studio quality
that's why I use Scope

my Boss ME50B Bass pedal barely reaches the minimum accepted quality - in fact I probably tolerate it only because it's extremely convenient and has a few funny extras, like the detunable octaver and a solid construction.
The IK Multimedia Ampeg package fails to pass the quality mark, which is a true pity... it would be gorgeous to have that in Scope sound quality

cheers, Tom

braincell wrote:This should have been called a free update versus the last Scope upgrade which was more like an update since it really had nothing new in it except the inclusion of things they wanted us to buy.

An upgrade should be something new to buy....what else it is? the update is a bug fix instead. In fact Scope 4.0 is an update as it fixes a bug of found in 3.1, that's resaving a project with a different name didn't change the name on the live bar. Scope bug fixes have been always free, no exception.

Scope 4.5, as a software, only needs 4.0 keys, you can install it without buying the new plugins. After all in a system like Scope I don't see any other way to upgrade than buying new plugins and it is the system that offers the best free stuff in the universe.

Steinberg, on the other side, has pissed off a lot of people. Their policy of dropping support and bug fixes for products that have been sold as professional less than 2 years before is absolutely horrid. It has been this way from Cubase 2.0 on. A serious company doesn't leave a professional software unfixed unless you buy an upgrade. The bug fixes can be fast or slow, but saying just "ok, now spend some more if you want to solve thatt issue..." is not moral nor serious for me. Creamware, with all its problems has never done such a thing. And today Scope is less buggy than any Steinberg release from 1984.

Anyway Scope is such another level of quality for the plugins and the flexibility that I seriously hope its architecture remains untouched also in the future. The only upgrade will be an hardware upgrade, for more dsp power, this is what I hope.

nothing to add alfonso......

Cubase is a tape deck, with some midi automation. Not worth using for making sounds. Dat's what i say