PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

see that's part of what I'm talking about.. there are so many distros out there where certain things are supported, and when they're not, you have compile your own drivers and blah blah. I'm sure these things are simple if you breath the stuff, but at the 11th hour of a production, I'm not going to be compiling things.

HOWEVER (big one) I can't emphasize enough that after the initial battle, if you get it to do what you need it to do, then the rest is just awesome. Clean, efficient, lean computation. And alot of these things can be customized for unbelievable speed. It's so fast, it's kind of like when pentiums first came out and you just clean installed windows 3.1. That was fast.

If there is a distro that's got all the mechanics right, I'd switch over in a heart beat. but getting it to work right is just SO hard! And even if you got it right, when your needs change, there's always potential for catastrophy.

I mean, is this insane or what:
"My install is a combination of Compiz and Beryl instructions. I followed the Compiz instruction on how to get your PC ready for 3D desktop, and installed Beryl."
Too much reading and too much research. Your computer becomes a freakin' master's thesis. Talk about having a long ways to go.. I'm really, really wished people could get it right.

In the meanwhile, I'm going to check out 64 studio. Looks promising.

hubird,
when i supply you with an xp machine, it works just as your osx machine does. in other words, it works right away. there nothing more to it than that. the users make the problems. it's all the same at the end of the day, from the point of veiw of music production. either way the system works reliably. there's no point in getting personally involved in a love affair with computers or a computer company, neither are human beings that will return your affection. it's all IBM technology at the end of the day. none of these other companies have done anything other than apply IBM's plans. it's called "branding". it's how every brand of tennis shoe can be made in the same factory...

all quality motherboards and components work in xp pcs which is amazing. cheap components make problems, but first quality parts always work. macs are made from quality parts, it's no surprise they work.

i'm not calling anything bad or putting anyone on a level, it's just a fact, part by part, i can build a "pc" and sell it for $2000 less than the comparable G5, and include an extra hard drive. osx is a nice os, but xp works just as well when it's all said and done. for me, the real deciding point is that scope cards fit in the xp machine. a scope card or two and a current sequencer is a powerfull machine for years to come, more than most will ever need.....

astroman wrote:of course it is
the more 2nd class software , the more 2nd class payment
the more bloat - the more demands in resources and more request for updates
keeps the wheel turning and the bosses can pretend to have a social heart...

Uhmmm 2nd class software ? I am sure I misunderstood this, otherwise you are seriously ignorant on the quality of some opensource projects.


> uname -a && uptime
FreeBSD edge01 5.4-RELEASE FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE #1: Tue Jul 12

11:07:44 CEST 2005 11:20AM up 637 days, 14:36, 2 users, load averages: 0.24, 0.23, 0.22

This is heavly used Production BGP router. We pump around 1TB of data through it each month, and will only grow. Currently we are setting up a fully redundant enviroment using opensource software!

Its so cool to see all your downloads/streams/traffic flowing through the backup router when you disable the primary! Takes about 4 lines of configuration! Very userfriendly.

But I probably misunderstood you. This is just a perfect example for opensource

Isn't it so funny, that when a discussion on OS platforms comes out it becomes all of a sudden a matter of faith?



I've never had overwhelming problems with neither Linux nor XP nor OS9 (I've had with W98 and Vista, though) so I can candidate myself as the new milennium OS Messiah, can I?

pistoguitar wrote:Isn't it so funny, that when a discussion on OS platforms comes out it becomes all of a sudden a matter of faith?

Yeah OS'es are tricky that way

FrancisHarmany wrote:...But I probably misunderstood you. This is just a perfect example for opensource

to be precise this is one single example of a device just doing it's job.
Even if the quantity of the numbers reads impressive it doesn't tell anything about actual processing quality, efficiency of underlying hardware etc.

I don't say that Open Source is a bad thing
but I also say that Open Source can never compete with a product made by a small group of talented developers.
the size of that group may vary, starting at 1 (of course) - but there is an upper limit...

an increased number of participants will not refine, but blur out and average the result.
That is a matter of fact you can observe under arbitrary circumstances

such 'community' products lack the driving force derived from 'the will to power'
that makes them 2nd class in my humble opinion.
I have seen enough 1st class products to tell the difference.

That does not mean all recent stuff is bad and s*cks by nature - no way.
But the number of quality programs is much smaller than in years where hardware restrictions did the job of sorting out the lame ones automatically.

astroman wrote: an increased number of participants will not refine, but blur out and average the result.
That is a matter of fact you can observe under arbitrary circumstances

You're absolutely right, but it is true also that distros like ubuntu have a reasonably small group of developers, an you're constantly warned by update manager and package manager when you're trying to download and install software which isn't maintained by the communit (so developed by who-knows-who).

You see a bunch of people involved there, but it comprehends translators, designers, CG artists... not everyone actually does the software developement job.
Of course then you can screw up everything by yourself!!!

astroman wrote:but I also say that Open Source can never compete with a product made by a small group of talented developers.
the size of that group may vary, starting at 1 (of course) - but there is an upper limit...

an increased number of participants will not refine, but blur out and average the result.
That is a matter of fact you can observe under arbitrary circumstances

such 'community' products lack the driving force derived from 'the will to power'
that makes them 2nd class in my humble opinion.
I have seen enough 1st class products to tell the difference.

That does not mean all recent stuff is bad and s*cks by nature - no way.
But the number of quality programs is much smaller than in years where hardware restrictions did the job of sorting out the lame ones automatically.

I guess you've never heard of the OpenBSD project

well, I'm pretty sure that I downloaded it once
My motivation was to run a specific Windows software under BSD in the 'wine' environment.
Driven by the knowledge that OSX is BSD as well, I was hoping to (later) run that software in the Apple environment...

I burned a pile of install CDs from numerous downloads.
I was not able to get that Wine thingy running, too much obscure reading...
I shelled out a few bucks and bought the commercial version by CodeWeavers
within half an hour it was up and running, but I don't remember if that was on BSD or Linux.
Anyway, my 'non-supported app' crashed on the 'public' platforms.

then CodeWeavers had an Apple version available, which installed and ran out of the box with almost no effort.
Including the non-supported application
then I bought 10 licenses from CodeWeavers...

astroman wrote:well, I'm pretty sure that I downloaded it once
My motivation was to run a specific Windows software under BSD in the 'wine' environment.
Driven by the knowledge that OSX is BSD as well, I was hoping to (later) run that software in the Apple environment...

I burned a pile of install CDs from numerous downloads.
I was not able to get that Wine thingy running, too much obscure reading...
I shelled out a few bucks and bought the commercial version by CodeWeavers
within half an hour it was up and running, but I don't remember if that was on BSD or Linux.
Anyway, my 'non-supported app' crashed on the 'public' platforms.

then CodeWeavers had an Apple version available, which installed and ran out of the box with almost no effort.
Including the non-supported application
then I bought 10 licenses from CodeWeavers...

I thought we where talking about quality code, a small group of developpers, and the will power to write good software. OpenBSD is the flagship (if you ask me) for these things!

But enough from me about all this! I dont see me using opensource for Music for the time being! I agree in situations as you mention; do what saves you the most time/money/gets things runing.....

garyb wrote: a scope card or two and a current sequencer is a powerfull machine for years to come, more than most will ever need.....

eh...internet maybe?

I agree about that.

I am a big fan of the open source movement though and I would love to see the SFP become open source. Obviously sales of these cards are a dismal failure.

FrancisHarmany wrote:...I thought we where talking about quality code, a small group of developpers, and the will power to write good software. OpenBSD is the flagship (if you ask me) for these things! ....

oops, sorry I messed it up with FreeBSD ... that was what I downloaded.
but you're right - it's not really that important anyway.
time cannot be turned back, it can only be moved forward...

cheers, Tom

hmmm...me decide? then I have to decide for the latter:
it's a obviously a computer (I do photographs, music, internet, text, disk burning), I modulated the processor (got myself a cheap faster one), I made extensions on it (harddisks, drive), the system is as open as I need (I know where to find and where to put everything in a extremely clear way), the source is open (open enough for any freak who needs controll behind the curtain, it's called the Terminal), and I have a lot of commercial apps on it, like Cubase, Scope, etc.
Do I miss something?


What I read about DRM, you're right, I don't like it the way it is.
But Vista looks to be worth, and even your mother isn't perfect

hubird wrote:

garyb wrote: a scope card or two and a current sequencer is a powerfull machine for years to come, more than most will ever need.....

eh...internet maybe?

you CAN use the internet with your xp scope computer, no problem. it's not reccommended, however because of pirates and diseases. if osx was sold in the numbers xp is and vice versa, xp would be the safer platform. the original mac os was the safest by design, most of that was compromised by osx...

true, XP can't be blamed for virusses and hackers, tho I remember Astroman saying that OSX is extremely safe on it's own already if I'm right.
Yet, speaking about costs, one has to decide what to do: spend mony and time to make the DAW internetsafe. or run a separate internet computer with the same security requests.

Your pc will be cheaper anyway, as a difference of 2000 dollar is unbeatable.
Yet I choose for a mac, I don't trust a pc/Windows anyway and in the long run I seriously doubt I'll be better off with the initial cheaper price
cheers.

If you have a router with a good password, keep windows and your other software updated, don't visit porn sites and pirate sites and only use software from well known trusted vendors, you are very safe with XP. It's computer hygene. I'm sure with a Mac or Linux you don't have to worry as much but I feel very safe. Follow these rules, enjoy the net and don't worry so much.

seconded

garyb wrote:... the original mac os was the safest by design, most of that was compromised by osx...

most ??? all of it

hubird wrote:true, XP can't be blamed for virusses and hackers, tho I remember Astroman saying that OSX is extremely safe on it's own already if I'm right...

not at all, it's really easy to sneak malware into that system - it's even easier as (almost) everyone using a Mac feels safe for the historic reason Gary quoted

cheers, Tom

ok, the difference - at the moment of the buy - is 2000,- dollar minus the cost of a router
that is, if Gary (to name one) builds it, more appropriate would be to compare it with a first class ready made Xeon of eh how much?

no just core2 duo or quadcore, that's what apple is using.

hubird, don't feel attacked. macs are well made machines that work very nicely indeed!