MOVEQ+ FREEEEEEE !!!!!!

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:53 pm

*lol* Markus, your really funny & you're right again. Some tech-guy-nerd sitting in front of SDK and inventing devices with everything moving what's technical possible...
This really has to be the first question:

Why modulating Qality, Gain & Freq of an EQ?

One of the most important things in music for me is dynamic & sound and for sure the combination of both.

I first found that sidechaining compressors and expanders to another source (bass kicked or pushed down with bassdrum or other way round, Keyboardpads changing volume with voice on another track etc. etc. makes music extremely more lively. Nowadays some people kill music with compressing it to death - making everything equal in volume...

I think one of the most important things we miss since Analog tapes left many studios is (very subtle) crossmodulation between different sources.

Good musicians even don't need any technical equipement for that - they react to other instruments on their instrument and this is what makes music living.

For me good music is the reaction of sounds to each other - like a communication. Even in hardest dance technos you'll find that extreme breathing & pumping-effects, when bass & other instruments are beaten down by bassdrum. That way the music get's a swing, a feeling, movement... (Sorry for my poor english)

=>

1. Moving gain of frequency bands is one thing you'll find in deessers, multiband-compressors & some other kinds of filter layouts...
Moving the gain of a certain frequency by the beat of the drums makes the sounds react to each other and so getting closer - they loose their distance, thei're not standing just one and then the other but both together in the music.
Of course it can be very helpfull to adjust gain automatically just when a frequency is too high - or you want to push it when it's too low...
So many possibilities...

2. With frequency it's as easy as with gain: Everybody knows filtermovements and I think they can be very nice when using them carefully on nearly every instrument. Why pushing only one frequency? Why not making it more lively and changing (in a certain area)?
For sure you can even build Auto WahWahs with moveq+ & there are other experimental ways which you will see & hear when the device is released...

3. Q is for sure the most subtle factor. It is something between the both others. It can be used to make a frequencyband more narrow (and with that lowering volume) or widen it and becoming more 'fat'. If you let these things depend on other sound sources you'll be able to get a kind of fatness-logic in that

... The louder the singer sings the wider become the Pad sound , the more silent the singing is the more agressiv become some EQ-bands...

Maybe one will change loudness corresponding to that, maybe one lets the frequency drop while the singer comes in...

whatever...

One has to hear it, but I like to try to express it in words

Martin

[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-10-10 13:56 ]

[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-10-10 13:58 ]

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:53 am

Some tech-guy-nerd sitting in front of SDK and inventing devices with everything moving what's technical possible...

well... that thought crossed my mind, indeed, when you started developing and came up every now and then with a new device...

Why modulating Qality, Gain & Freq of an EQ?

a question (including the answers) that should definitely find its way into the manual. *hint*

1. Moving gain of frequency bands is one thing you'll find in deessers...
...
2. With frequency it's as easy as with gain:
...
3. Q is for sure the most subtle factor. It is something between the both others. It can be used to make a frequencyband more narrow

I think 1 and 3 sound kinda familiar to me, I still have to admit that I didn't actually make use of such functionality before. I think feedback destroyers work somehow that way, automatically setting filters and narrow or widen them if necessary, while maintaining gain/loss of that frequency band.

may I do at least partially compare this functionality to some of the possibility of moveq+?

maybe I grasp number 2 too, while working with moveq+

yes, when it's done. .oO(this won't be another DNF, will it?

)

while you're focusing on making it dynamic, will there still be the possibility to switch of all the dynamic stuff and use it non-dynamic? I think setting the sliders to zero should do the trick, but maybe there's a button that makes them jump to the middle when pressed. there already seems such thing just below ef gain, but I'm afraid that it could be there for turning the whole eq band off...

-greetings, markus-

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:23 am

well... that thought crossed my mind, indeed, when you started developing and came up every now and then with a new device...

I hope you then thought (after trying them out): Wow, these devices - for example LC1 - just sound better than CW ones- with some simple knob turns when trying them out... and they are free! ... CW never had softknee in their free comps, LC1 does that job very flexible...

These thoughts crossed my mind now after reading

:

Did you try it out, the LC1?
Did you try MOVEQ classic/fresh?
Did you try SATTeQ? (O.K. this one looks still ugly, but it's easy to use and sounds great)
Did you try XL? - Thatone is really simple, you even have a demo-sound...

I made some great sounds with all of them without spending much time with settings - just listening.

a question (including the answers) that should definitely find its way into the manual. *hint*

Hint has come to the right place in the right time. Thanks

I think feedback destroyers work somehow that way, automatically setting filters and narrow or widen them if necessary, while maintaining gain/loss of that frequency band.

On MOVEQ+ you set your own settings. And yes, the button you mentioned turns off movement. very simple. I think you have a really good feeling for our device

There is another button to turn off the 2EQ-groups. Guess which...!

"Automatic" should be the wrong term, cause you do it with your ears and your knowhow. MOVEQ is - when using it to the MAX (!!!) of it's possibilities nothing for musicians who like to turn 2 knobs to get their standard sound.
You will be able to get nice sounds with just turning the knobs, but you should listen carefully to whats happening. You can use MOVEQ+ in a very simple way, but if you know how, you can do lots of advanced things which need rather a book than a manual and some time for it when beeing new to it - as it is with producing & recording. For the advanced things you simply need the time. There is no book about SCOPE, that's sad, but it should be a very big book ... an endless book? ... a book about recording in general?

I think it should be O.K. doing the manual as good as possible and answering questions which arise.

Your proposals & questions are really at the right place to the right time. I'm thinking about some space on the homepage for clearing up special things & tricks.

I will take the time and explain that stuff, when I have nice examples & ideas how to show it. It won't be done in 30minutes to get all that things when you're new to it.

maybe I grasp number 2 too, while working with moveq+ yes, when it's done. .oO(this won't be another DNF, will it? )

What is DNF?
By the way... what music are you recording/composing/arranging...?

while you're focusing on making it dynamic, will there still be the possibility to switch of all the dynamic stuff and use it non-dynamic? I think setting the sliders to zero should do the trick, but maybe there's a button that makes them jump to the middle when pressed. there already seems such thing just below ef gain, but I'm afraid that it could be there for turning the whole eq band off...

This will be definatively a chapter in the manual (just joking

):

10 Examples of turning off the dynamic stuff:

1. Turn off with button under EF
2. Turn off EF gain
3. Set fader to 0
4. enable a "pre-follower-insert" without an effect in it
5. load an insert which is out of order

6. Turn all values to max and set faders in same direction

7. hit the bypass button

8. Take of your SCOPE-card while computer is running

9. Set incoming signal to zero

10. turn off all bands of MOVEQ+ and load another EQ in the pre or post insert of MOVEQ+

11. turn off all bands of MOVEQ+ and load MOVEQ+ in pre or post insert and do one of the points 1-10.

i think 4 things are most important with all this (could be more when thinking about it): Making musik, doing things you never did before, listening, having fun.

5. trying all my freeware-stuff

Martin

[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-10-11 11:26 ]

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:42 pm

Awesome and certainly confortable to use. This will be a great proyect I guess, well done!

katano · Post by **katano** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:37 pm

DNF = Did Not Finish

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:36 pm

On 2006-10-11 17:37, katano wrote:
DNF = Did Not Finish

That's what I thought it meant. What a nice thing to say.

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:38 am

Aahhh, now I understand ...
Funny, somehow, cause there were very very few devices which were not finished.
Why not trying a device? It is freeware & the devices are very nice.

A device which we worked now for weeks will surely be more than just nice

Without knowing the translation I finished yesterday evening the Knott 1.0 compilation.

ALL devices should be in a state where they are usable & if anyone sees any bug, report it and it will be removed, when it is a bug that is problematic for the devices function.

All are anyway usable as they are...

We'll wait, what happens today

Martin

[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-10-12 01:38 ]

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:10 am

B.t.w.

I like your open speaking, Markus, that's the only way to get further!!!

I thought about your DNF - sentence again and yes, I was not professional with putting a device everyday on Planetz. One sometimes had to read what happened before. I like it, to show a developement in things - keep on moving! - but there are other users who want to pick up perfect tools for music-production.

Exactly that is the direction I will go. It is a direction. YOu can choose to join that way at any point. With MOVEQ+ it will be different. It will be 'perfect' when being released.

I understand, that for new users the structure of presenting my old devices has to be changed. O.K. up to now everything was freeware, but I really want you to have fun with all that devices & that is only possible when presenting them in a good way.

I'm right now working on a new structur for the old stuff. It's just another step in the right direction i think.

Martin

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:01 am

hi martin
(and all who aren't in mortal agony yet while still keeping an eye on the thread)

Did you try MOVEQ classic/fresh?

do you remember me asking dumb questions about that weeks ago?

if I had been successful there would be much less need for asking now, wouldn't it? by the way, I never even tried moveq fresh, since I considered the gui $rude_expression_deleted$ looking, though somehow innovative. it was an idea at least my little world isn't ready for yet

Did you try XL? - Thatone is really simple, you even have a demo-sound...

no. and I have to admit I didn't find enough time to try it out right now, since employment still incorporates doing some work. you pointed out that you know about that

There is another button to turn off the 2EQ-groups. Guess which...!

will the first poster win a free moveq+ or are you just testing my guessing capabilities?

now seriously, there are 2 possibilities. after looking once again I decided it must be the reverse triangle above the meters. I first suspected the round button _below_ the meters, but since there is some directional issue about that (to be seen at the leftmost meters), where the indication triangle is directed to the left (while the others are centered) made me rethink it could be peak hold reset. of course, it will be all in the manual.

"Automatic" should be the wrong term, cause you do it with your ears and your knowhow.

yes, but once you turned on dynamics by introducing a modulation source, setting the modulation value sliders to non-zero, turning up ef gain, unlock the bypass button and having still a scope card in the slot, some magic is done. it might not be magic to all who know, since a certain type of modulation source and certain values for the incorporated knobs could lead to a predictable output result, but then, as you can see from my profile I'm still a budding pulsarian. one who likes to understand what is possible with the tools given. tryout out and fiddling with the knobs leads to some knowledge on _whats_ happening audible, but that does not necessarily lead to knowing _why_ it is happening that way.

I think it should be O.K. doing the manual as good as possible and answering questions which arise.

since not all manuals come up with valuable information, this could be a reason not only to create a fine piece of virtual electronics but to give people the knowledge to use it wisely. this could make you leapfrog the competition. (ok, I got that from my dilbert desk calendar

).

Your proposals & questions are really at the right place to the right time. I'm thinking about some space on the homepage for clearing up special things & tricks.

great idea. I can offer you a mirror, if needed.

I will take the time and explain that stuff, when I have nice examples & ideas how to show it. It won't be done in 30minutes to get all that things when you're new to it.

rome wasn't build in a day, either. I really appreaciate that you're at least trying to provide more than simple support for your tools.

What is DNF?

Duke Nukem Forever (tm). often referred to as the number one vaporware on the market. they like to call it DNW, which means Duke Nukem Whenever *g*

By the way... what music are you recording/composing/arranging...?

recording a gospel choir (making live gigs available on cd if desired), getting old recordings from tapes to cd while enhancing it a bit (recently my parents found a tape of my first musical appearance, around the christmas tree with a metal drum. It must have been the time when I was about 3

and getting my wife's vocal lessons off md.
I do not compose, although I have some ideas, and maybe somewhere in the future some of them find their way onto my harddisc.

well, that's my profile, if you like.

10 Examples of turning off the dynamic stuff:

1. Turn off with button under EF
2. Turn off EF gain
3. Set fader to 0
7. hit the bypass button

1 to 3 was what I wanted to hear

7 confused me a bit. either 1 and 7 are equal, or 7 turns off the whole band, which is not the thing I had in mind. but if so, my eyes are missing a button for that.

I know a twelvth way, but I'm sure you won't like it... (but wolf will do, I'm sure, too)

I think 4 things are most important with all this

I do it for fun, and to aid others. if it was more than just fun, be sure to find me more prepared.

time is a limiting factor, too. you know best what I'm talking about. and it's not only my wife, but also that lil guy who occasionally wants his diapers changed...

and then of course those who ask "will you have this nighly recording ready by lets say tomorrow, lunchtime? I'm sooo curious what my solo sounds like...".

this is kinda deadlock situation, and I can already hear the voices of those who might argue that one should set his priorities the right way. yeah, you're sure right, but not helpful. but this is getting off-topic now.

martin, I say that again: I appreciate all help you provide, and I'm happy that you cared for my dumb questions all the time. keep it up, man

-greetings, markus-

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:17 am

shroomz:

That's what I thought it meant. What a nice thing to say.

well, I can feel there's a sarcastic undertone in that, and since you're massively involved in development I cannot resent this. but being a very active member of this forum you might not take everything too serious. I was not aware that Duke Nukem Forever could be such an insider joke, since it's in the world for many years. all of you should be expected to own a computer, and among all those people are so few having played duke nukem years ago? and DNF is still one of the most expected games ever (as moveq+ is one of the most expected devices I read about in this forum). both do exist to most of the people as screenshots only, so you might be so kind to forgive me my ungraceful comparison

-greetings, markus-

_________________
--
In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was Content-type: text/plain

[ This Message was edited by: kylie on 2006-10-12 05:55 ]

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:24 am

I like all this very very much!!!
This is a nice communication which improves things!

Martin

B.t.w. Markus, you again hit the right answer: IT IS THE BUTTON YOU MENTIONED! Congratulations! Good, that the inferface seems really intuitiv.

[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-10-12 08:39 ]

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:30 am

On 2006-10-12 05:17, kylie wrote:
well, I can feel there's a sarcastic undertone in that, and since you're massively involved in development I cannot resent this. but being a very active member of this forum you might not take everything too serious. I was not aware that Duke Nukem Forever could be such an insider joke, since it's in the world for many years. all of you should be expected to own a computer, and among all those people are so few having played duke nukem years ago? and DNF is still one of the most expected games ever (as moveq+ is one of the most expected devices I read about in this forum). both do exist to most of the people as screenshots only, so you might be so kind to forgive me my ungraceful comparison

Please excuse my ignorance kylie.

I'm very glad that you show so much interest in Martin's device because I know that he's spent A LOT of time developing it.

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:07 am

hi martin,

I like your open speaking, Markus, that's the only way to get further!!!

I'm btw happy you're not offended by what I'm saying.

I thought about your DNF - sentence again and yes, I was not professional with putting a device everyday on Planetz.

there was nothing you _had_ to finish, nor even to start, but you did, because you had fun with it. you did not start this with a professional claim, so why feeling sorry for not being professional?

ahem, btw. just to make it clear for all eternity: I associated DNF to Duke Nukem _only_. any other meaning is by pure coincidence (although they might be related quite closely in this special case).

everybody feel free to hate me now.

I like it, to show a developement in things - keep on moving! - but there are other users who want to pick up perfect tools for music-production.

yes, and mostly these are not for free. there is no discrepancy. like you are free to develop, others are free to use it or not. that's why I'm eagerly following this thread, because moveq+ shifts not only expectations, but also quality to a new level. for me it could provide a well documented tool with a professional look and haptics, and thus something worth spending some bucks. I don't dislike what you have done before, I just could not gain much experience with it. this is mostly my fault (if we want to call it that way), lacking important basics, but this is nothing I'm ashamed of too much.

Exactly that is the direction I will go. It is a direction. YOu can choose to join that way at any point. With MOVEQ+ it will be different. It will be 'perfect' when being released.

you decide which direction you want to go, and as long as you have fun with it, it's not the wrong one. if frustration takes over, there's no room for creativity and professionality any more.

I'm right now working on a new structur for the old stuff. It's just another step in the right direction i think.

if you really consider caring for the "old stuff" as we call it now, think about gui design

. to be honest, I do not fancy your ruhrpott mining gui elements...

the screenshot of moveq+ was an electrifying signal to me that something serious must be on the way...

-greetings, markus-

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:45 am

if you really consider caring for the "old stuff" as we call it now, think about gui design . to be honest, I do not fancy your ruhrpott mining gui elements...

I see most things with other eyes now after working with the devices for a while.

New devices will still come up with strange guis, cause that's what makes most fun & gives them a personal note. As soon as there are possibilities & ideas to make them better match the daily workflow I will put again some work in it. I should do that at least with the "x-series". Yes, GUI is an important point for me.

SATTeKUH is not one of the 'old' stuff. It's working great, but it simply has no real GUI.
I had not the time for that and now I'm happy I did not do it because shroomz has a concept for a really great look. O.k. shroomz somehow has the talent to make things great & special looking AND easy to use, so when such a great designer puts his hands on my devices I'm just proud and praying he'll do more.

We will work on SATTeKUH when we're finished with MOVEQ+. To be honest, today I didn't work on MOVEQ+ but in this state it makes not much sense anyway. It is ready to go - just some formal things left which have nothing to do with the device itself & will need some time.

LC1 & Dynamyth have to look that way

These are things where I won't make a compromise, cause they are very special in what they do, so there is no real need in making them look more standard. Anyway few people seem to use them & I would just think 'bout easier & clearer settings if making it commercial:

I for myself love to tweak knobs which influence sound in many special ways. In most cases I have a sound and tweak it till it fits - for me - best in the song. Dynamyth is great for doing such things with drums.

It is so fascinating how ADERN got that flexor modules sound so great while not attemting to copy something 'original'. Just searching for general principles, what please our ears & what sounds nice & lively.

I'm trying to understand the principles, which make a sound good in special situations & then applying those principles make many sounds possible in between.(I'm far from knowing all that stuff but I repeatedly said - I'm learning.) I found lot's of tricks and for that SDK is simply heaven!!! An alternative to 10 knobs on a device is having to combine 5 devices - which I often did in the past and which makes much less fun than to work in a surrounding which enables you to pick up exactly that values you want to tweak and make a device out of it.

MOVEQ+ is the (very time-consuming) experiment to combine complexity with an easy-to-use GUI. Which is - for me - only possible in very special situations.

Martin

[ This Message was edited by: MCCYRANO on 2006-10-12 12:46 ]

kylie · Post by **kylie** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:34 pm

LC1 & Dynamyth have to look that way These are things where I won't make a compromise, cause they are very special in what they do, so there is no real need in making them look more standard.

1) I like the plain LC1 look (the yellow one), and also dynamyth2. they may not look special, but I'd prefer the plain look if I had the choice.

2) you don't need to make a compromise. you're the creator

3) moveq+ is _far_ from standard, but nevertheless looking great

-greetings, markus-

MCCY · Post by **MCCY** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:01 pm

O.K. I get the point & understand you.

Martin

manu · Post by **manu** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:42 pm

I'd like to know if demo version of old moveq which is in device section sounds like the moveq+.
if not, when wil it be possible to test the new one ?

thanks for all your freeware.

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:52 am

Hi uman & welcome to PLanetZ!

On 2006-10-13 00:42, uman wrote:
I'd like to know if demo version of old moveq which is in device section sounds like the moveq+.

I've used the old one in several recordings (one of which is in the music forum) & I'm quite certain that it doesn't sound the same as MOVEQ+. MOVEQ+ is a much more advanced and versatile dynamic equalizer & sounds much better to my ears.

[ This Message was edited by: Shroomz on 2006-10-13 04:53 ]

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:18 am

btw, for certain reasons I think Martin is perhaps keeping the additional advanced features he's added since this announcement & also the 'sound' (re- demo release) of MOVEQ+ a secret for now (although I don't speak for him on this, that's just my view of the situation & I could be way off track)

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:52 am

Just for the record, the track I made which uses Martin's original MOVEQ is here >> http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... orum=17&13

It's a pretty dodgy & over-mastered minimal techno track, but you'll certainly hear the somewhat simplistic dynamic EQ work (just sweeps) if you're listening with ears that still work.

DJmicron's C4T osc was used for the weird lone synth sound.