PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

I wouldn't pursue the argument about double standards if I were you, Braincell - you take Astro to task for saying something that you misunderstand, and then get uppety when people point out that you are wrong. You seem bent on getting on people's nerves, and this is why people react the way they do. Indeed, you seem to enjoy getting on people's nerves and watching their reactions! It doesn't do anyone any favours, except possibly you, in providing you with a bit of entertainment.

braincell wrote:Whatever. Astro said it was cheap. I guess he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. I thought it was expensive

braincell wrote:I mean to say the founder. Not Ralf he is a SC. But whatever now you are just knit picking.

Not everyone reacts badly just some

braincell wrote:This is the difference between us. I don't insult you but you insult me. It is so juvenile. You will find anything to pick on me or just hurl insults at me instead of talking about SC. Take a hint from astro and grow up.

I does not work to play the "I am a poor defenseless angel" card. You insult SC by spreading malicious misinformations. Your horns are getting blunt though.

braincell wrote:Not everyone reacts badly just some

The ones who haven't muted you because they still hold out some hope for a sensible debate!

Truce.

braincell wrote:Truce.

I'd like to see, which conditions you have to offer.

I like your new sig, immanuel

bleh, this stuff is getting old. I think the bottom line is, SC is a company, and they are perfectly capable, and have the rights to maintain whatever direction they choose. There was a point in time where the atmosphere was a "everyone helps build up the platform" feel, with the inclusion of third parties, etc... but the fact is, we are not majority share holders, investors, etc, and do not play a business role in their decision making. Merely being a consumer doesn't entitle any of us to be in any of these positions. It's not a question of values, that's just business. PlanetZ may play a vital role in a scope user's life, but at the end of the day, it is an user forum, and again, that does not entitle any of us to play a role in SC's direction. If we do, that's just pure luck. If you really want to exert business pressure, then it's best tocontact their corporate offices and initiate dialogue.

And again and again, CW stuff isn't expensive. It's VERY cheap, and their policies have been very user friendly. (comparatively) That is is what allowed it to be a individual based studio technology rather than a corporate basted one, and hence the pricing difference. Even Xite at its price isn't bad for production equipment. True, it's not cheap, but comparatively fairly priced.

Just stop the direct attacks. Braincell can say whatever he wants (or anyone), you don't have to reply with a personal attack. I look back, and there are many instances where a challenging point is made by braincell, and it is returned with a direct attack to braincell. Just state your opposing view and please forget about direct references to braincell. Discuss the point of view, not the person. We are a group here, and we hang around. We have hung around for a long time. And I think we can learn to respond to each other understanding each other's personalities.

SC can go wherever it wants to go, but I really do hope that Z will remain the diverse, creative force it has always been. And one of its awesome qualities is how it engulfes many different points of views. I really hope it will remain that way.

oh, and btw I saw this on the way:

Like Kensuguro, I'm using Scope less these days.

I do use scope, for mixing, as I have been for a long time. I just haven't upgraded since 3.1c. But anyway, that's really not relavant to this discussion.

Fact is, equipment sways and turns, but your creativity won't be affected by it, hopefully. So I try not to be particularly tied to any specific equipment. If it creates the results, then that's the equipment of choice, for thtat moment. If not, then there are many other things that can be used. It's just not that big of a deal for me. (personally) It may have financial impact, but that impact is much better than an impact on the creative process, or life in general. ... or am I just not too picky?? hehe.

I quite agree... One last point : only few Soniccore users are on planetz or any other forum. Let's say I personnally know 10 to 15 people owning scope products and only one third (max) is registerd to a forum (maomusique.fr or Z). Remember that many people are bad in english (french people especially.... ) so all what we can say here is not a good indicator of commercial trends even in the DSP world. Let's companies decide their future according to sales (that's the most important thing in business ...)

astroman wrote: They also announced their definitive decision to support VISTA, doesn't this count as devlopement ?
cheers, Tom

It has only been nearly three years since Vista was released and Microsoft was working with developers before then. You call this a great new feature? All this time they have been selling hardware which is out of date.

astroman wrote: the strange thing is... your music reflects a much more sophisticated attitude and one really wouldn't expect this kind of tunnel view from it's composer...

cheers, Tom

Thanks. Your view isn't a tunnel view?

It might have been 3 years since Microsoft announced Vista but SonicCore has only owned the rights to SCOPE a little over a year, and in that time ported the whole Platform to Vista as well as created new hardware and bugfixes and new plugins that we know of. Your being unreasonable in your expectations.

No, it has been almost 3 years since Vista was first released and version 5 seems not so exiting if you bought the mixers and synthesizers already. That is essentially it. It does make me wonder if I should buy any more bundles if they will be put into the platform eventually.

Vista support is something customers expect not an exciting new feature.

1. why don't you change your nick into "customers"?

2. support for the current windows and/or mac OS is just a matter of course when a company releases new hardware. for old hardware it is not, but it's good to have the possibility to get it as an upgrade

3. where do you have your knowledge from, about the not yet released scope5? you are clueless besides the facts they gave us? well...

I don't think lots & lots of SC customers give a damn about Scope/Vista. Scope/OSX and Scope/Linux, on the other hand...

Just one opinion and only my .0000000002

-cap

braincell wrote:... Your view isn't a tunnel view?

if you refer to my (admittedly frequent) dissing of certain software products and trends in developement - a clear NO

I started computing on a tiny 8 bit toy by Sinclair, had a CP/M machine and went into the PC business when Macs were available in Germany, around 1985. I learned the Mac OS and it's GUI from the ground up and had more than enough opportunities to compare it to Atari TOS, Windoze 3, 95, 98, NT, 2K, XP, Linux, Irix.

I've supported a local hospital as well as the British Royal Airforce, students, teachers, managers, the everyday joe, publishing, engineering and sales departments - using any developement system that fitted the job most effectively.
I simply couldn't afford a tunnel view... working for those known to turn the impossible into reality
and even less I can afford it today, as I'm responsible for my own business

my 'opinion' may read a bit strange for those lacking those 2 decades of IT experience, but (imho) I provide some balanced view even in my ranting...
I'd kind of bite the hand that feeds, but I wouldn't really chop it off
btw I'm not entirely technology oriented, as I hang out with design, marketing and sales executives as well.

it's not too difficult to guess that I may have a more detailed understanding for a small german technology company
be assured that if we want to achieve something, we are enduring ... but you really have no idea how much sh*t there is in what's called IT 'standards'

cheers, Tom

whatever Frank's regime did in the past has nothing to do with these guys. they got Scope and the first thing they did was begin the vista and osx versions. sure, those should already be finished, but Frank had no coders working on that for years and now after a few months, v5 is nearly done. the SonicCore folks are doing the right things, as much as is humanly possible. there will be new things to complain about in the future i'm sure, but let's wait until v5 comes out to begin the complaining process.

Thanks for your resume astro, I'll shop it around to some headhunters. I started out on a real computer... a Commodore 64. No I wasn't referring to Microsoft. I hate them too but it's what we have. OSX isn't an option for me nor is Linux.

Yes they should of had Vista drivers out sooner. There have been distractions. Some new product always which is going to save them, meanwhile here we are. I don't need version 5 now. Maybe in the future. Like I said it's hardly worth the price for me just to get Vista. I'm only using Vista on the laptop. Vista 64 bit would be good if you want more than 4 gigs of RAM. I'm not even sure if Scope 5 will be 64 bit. Cubase has beta 64 bit already. If you put 4 gigs of RAM on a Vista machine, it will use 3 gigs of it for the OS.

Now if you will excuse me, I am going to attempt to play Crysis. It probably will refuse to even install on my crappy machine.

garyb wrote:whatever Frank's regime did in the past has nothing to do with these guys. they got Scope and the first thing they did was begin the vista and osx versions. sure, those should already be finished, but Frank had no coders working on that for years and now after a few months, v5 is nearly done. the SonicCore folks are doing the right things, as much as is humanly possible. there will be new things to complain about in the future i'm sure, but let's wait until v5 comes out to begin the complaining process.

And designing fully functional hardware along with that is NOT an easy task.
I've been doing it for close to 30 years, including at many VERY large companies with household names. These companies have resources to burn while small Sonic Core sits there and designs a multi-DSP PCB, firmware, AND software with I/O integration, and drivers, etc. within a year. Pretty daunting indeed.

Greg

Pling,

Old hardware is sometimes but not always supported. As I have pointed out before, the hardware that has not been supported is not old hardware. It is current hardware that you can buy today!

Anybody, I repeat anybody knows the difference between discontinued hardware and spanking brand new hardware you just plunked out hundreds for in a box unopened and never used by anyone!!!!

This is bullshit acting like the current Scope cards have been discontinued! Anybody who buys a brand new card would expect it to work on the current operating systems. Operating systems I might add which did not just come out recently!


Astro says give them a break because they are a small German company and they have been working hard. I would prefer it if they had worked on the platform and cards in a similar price range to what they have now.

The Flexor problem shows they don't care about the platform.

they didn't have the right to work on it before!

this is NOT Frank and Wolf's company.

you just don't know what you are talking about. you are being an ass(stubborn regardless of what reality is).


because they are still selling the cards as WELL as XITE, they have made v5 which works on the current os choices(although XP is still fully supported by nearly every app). isn't that what you are saying they should have done? well, they're doing it, FIRST thing! isn't that great? the flexor problem shows none of that which you infer. the fact that they made v5 shows that they care quite a bit, if not in the way that you want them to.

now get a nice cotton/rayon plug and soak up that discharge before we have to smell any more of it. please.