Freezing problems using Pulsar 2 on new P4 DAW

geoffd99 · Post by **geoffd99** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:49 pm

Yes, I had it all working fine for several hours this evening, then switched on the keyboard, and it froze within minutes... I don't think my old Yamaha does active sensing, so it is tricky to fix it, as what do I filter out, the notes (!).
Anyway, I have been using comnputer audio interfaces since they were invented, and I have NEVER had a problem with midi before.

Also, the system 'PCI overloads' if USB is switched on, so I can't use my laptop USB midi interface I have lying around...

Yes, I think my system was better with Win98. At least I could play something new into it!

Although it seems some people get lucky with their CW gear, if the newer mobos etc don't run under SFP 4, then what did CW put into the upgrade from 3.1? Do they use modern computers? Is CW lab full of old PCs? The big question is this: if all other computer / high tech gear is getting easier and more compatible (ie convergence) why is CW stuck in the past with all these disasterous tech failures?
And I am a techy person, so what would a 'normal' person (musician) make of all this?

It is true Macs can freeze, but I am not pulling my leads out or whatever in the middle of a session!

I have often had both, so have no axe to grind. Anyway, don't CW cards run in Macs? This might be my next step - a new Mac (then I can run Pluggo and Mode too). But then... how do I know the CW cards will run properly in a Mac?

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:54 pm

The only problem with switching to MAC is the fact that the CW cards are 5v PCI's instead of 3.3v PCIx...

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:02 pm

... and they are still looking for coders for the OSX low level part of SFP...

Post by **garyb** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:04 pm

all the pcs that i have built work.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:23 pm

On 2004-08-15 16:49, geoffd99 wrote:
...
Yes, I think my system was better with Win98. At least I could play something new into it!
...
The big question is this: if all other computer / high tech gear is getting easier and more compatible (ie convergence) why is CW stuck in the past with all these disasterous tech failures?...

??? - no offence intended, but could you explain how these 2 statements converge ?

you've made the experience that you had a workable system once, and now all the new stuff obviously fails - could be that it's not as sophisticated as promoted ?

Aside from clockrate and higher density and rotation speed of HDs not much has changed.

In fact I'm totally convinced that overall system quality from mobo, bios, controllers up to drivers and OS support has tremendously decreased over the last years.

Release cycles are shortened due to lower revenues and the shelfs are flooded with crap - Apple has never been as bad as currently...

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2004-08-15 20:24 ]

Post by **hubird** » Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:30 pm

It's clear that the typical windows/pc problems like IRQ, HT, mobo type, windows version compatibility, PCI overload simply don't exist on mac.
Macs are just way too expensive compared to pc, tho personnally I take that for granted.

As Paul and Astro say the 'only' (!) two problems that Scope on mac has, is the PCI voltage problem and OSX support.

Everytime I get to this point, reading related posts, I get forced to the conclusion that develloping an external card box should be on top of the to-do list of CWA, given the fact that OSX support is little by little coming now.

If I would see CWA working on big other projects, be it software of any kind or hardware instruments, I would feel very disappointed, and I wouldn't understand the strategy.

I don't say this as a mac user, tho I have personnal interest in full mac support, I know.
I think we agree that G5 support will be a very smart move for for the company and specialy for the Scope platform

It's just that this job simply has to be done now or later, postponement makes no sense to me.

sorry, complete off topic, just an eruption

geoffd99 · Post by **geoffd99** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:10 am

My comment about convergance was about the way newer technologies link and generally work fine, so all these hardware problems that CW cards throw up (as listed above) seem very anachronistic (old fashioned).
Although I suppose they are in a complex setting (many differnt mobos, etc etc).

Anyway, my set up is now working again after finally switching ACPI to Standard PC - I delayed this until last as I then had to reinstall loads of stuff off CDs, and spend a while getting it all back into shape, which was a pain.
Also, many people here say ACPI is fine so it is a last resort I think, after HT off, USB off, video settings off etc.
However midi now works.

So I suppose it is a question of carry on hacking away until it works. It is all very irritating as everything else these days works 'out of the box' including newer audio cards (according to reviews).

Anyway, as for an external CW host box, isn't that like the Noah? Companies do make external PCI boxes, but they are expensive.

I can see CW making VST plugins of all the synths etc soon, bundling them into packs, and selling a huge amount more than they do now, while still keeping us customers since we have invested so heavily in the cards and software.

I think when Photoshop came out on the PC (V3?) it immediately outsold the Mac version by ten times, just due to the size of the PC market compared to the Mac market. The same applies to DSP CW market compared to 'normal' native processor market for VSTs. And as computers can handle plugin synths now, why bother with buggy hardware?

I might even post some tracks later, if the CW gear continues to work!!

I work with the name 'Underwired' at the moment, have dome some stuff for club nights, label interested, very small though!!

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:24 am

On 2004-08-16 04:10, geoffd99 wrote:
My comment about convergance was about the way newer technologies link and generally work fine, so all these hardware problems that CW cards throw up (as listed above) seem very anachronistic (old fashioned).
Although I suppose they are in a complex setting (many differnt mobos, etc etc).
...

have a peek at the mnufacturing date of your Scope card and at the mobo you recently purchased

how can a card be the culprit if it appearantly works with current stuff at it's release date ?
I never heard of trouble with BX or 815 based mobos, for example.
Do you expect CWA to foresee the future ?

I really can't share your experperience about the way newer technologies link and generally work fine...

neither on Windows, nor Mac... and it's part of my dayly job for > 15 years - I might as well add that it's this non-linking that actually saves and ensures my job

and NO - I'm absolutely convinced that Adobe didn't sell a single copy more on the PC side compared to Macs - bundles and ware* don't count in this context

well, a bit much of 'negative' blurb, sorry - of course the most important fact is that your system (at least slowly) gets back to work

cheers, Tom

[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2004-08-16 08:34 ]

Micha · Post by **Micha** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:59 am

I only can agree with astro. Just had a problem solved with a virtual machine by BIOS update number: TATAA: 15! Took only 2 years with workaround this, then that, etc. ACPI in "older" chipsets? forget it. Whenever a card or software can do more as just one simple basic function: bye bye PnP. Especially if it needs own IRQ. The bad thing: OS installs well with these BIOS, they tested, but the first addition might get you in your first trouble, since - not tested. You test. This is the priciple of banana-PC: matures by user. Lots of bananas, these days...
BTW: Linux users solve a lot of the very nasty and hard to find bugs

geoffd99 · Post by **geoffd99** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:28 am

I agree, there is plenty of work in fixing PCs.
There is a funny Pot Noodles ad here in the UK, this straight guy likes to get down and dirty in an alley with the spicy flavour Pot... that probably has something to do with it too!

Have just got Cubase SX, it sounds terrific, even the little synth that comes with it.

[ This Message was edited by: geoffd99 on 2004-08-17 11:13 ]

darkstar · Post by **darkstar** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:12 pm

About freezings:
I have freezings with asus p4c800e-deluxe,but I think I have solution(without buying midi interface).
If it is problem with midi,in theory I need to activate game/midi port that I have on mobo,and to record midi with it.But I have problem to install that port(it says OTHER INPUT in windows,and it doesn't work).

Logical?

geoffd99 · Post by **geoffd99** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:31 am

I had freezing until I set ACPI to 'standard pc' - if it is set to anything else it froze when the midi keyboard was switched on (this was after all other easier tweaks like no HT no USB etc). You will need your XP disk, it has to reinstall some software.

This was the only thing that stopped it.

It is on Control Panels / System / Device Manager / Hardware / Device manager / Computer

[ This Message was edited by: geoffd99 on 2004-08-19 05:32 ]

lysergide · Post by **lysergide** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:30 am

Many people here refer to computer "Freezing"...

do u think there is a difference between a BSOD (Blue screen of death) and a computer freezing and not responding?

I believe these relate to 2 different types of problems.. so people should state whether they suffer from the freeze of bsod..

i could be wrong though

geoffd99 · Post by **geoffd99** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:49 am

I mean freeze as in the computer stops with the same normal screen, the cursor at wherever it was, no signs of life, it just stops dead quite abruptly (no bad behaviour first)- in a freeze.
The BSOD is quite different! It is usually a hanging situation, where Ctrl Alt Del might cause a change, or at least trigger some action.
With a freeze, even Ctrl Alt Del does absolutely nothing.
The only way to restart is via the on/off physical button (on mine, press down for a few seconds and it switches off).

[ This Message was edited by: geoffd99 on 2004-08-19 12:50 ]

Post by **hubird** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:22 pm

on mac I get this freeze situation only if my song is big, with 20 or more long samples, in combination with a high loaded Scope (with reverbs and delays).

It always happens from within Cubase, doing something trivial like moving a part in the arrangement.

Never ever it happens from within Scope

I can't name any bug in Scope, not even one little

If I have a crash it's always Cubase in combination with ASIO, I have to restart after deleting the Sound panel's ASIO prefs.

With heavy CPU use freezing happens several times a day, I must make a bounce then of the Battery, Kontakt or the Phatmatic Pro files (slice editor).

Sometimes, once in a few days, I get a freeze without any acceptable reason.
Must be fucking mac

valis · Post by **valis** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:07 am

On 2004-08-19 21:22, hubird wrote:
Sometimes, once in a few days, I get a freeze without any acceptable reason.
Must be fucking mac

Hate to do this...but I will!

Get the same thing with CubaseSX on PC (proves to all the mac users its not just PC!) Switched to Logic completely a while back (almost 2 years) and nary a problem that wasn't related to a specific cranky vst plugin.

lysergide · Post by **lysergide** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:05 am

I think one thing that could be causing freezes and blue screens is the fact that perhaps people don't use the original software? (warez'd versions)

This could be causing problems i guess..?
I believe that people on this forum tested all the tweaks and configurations using original software... but this is something i think that shouldn't be overlooked....

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:20 am

On 2004-08-16 04:10, geoffd99 wrote:
.....
Anyway, my set up is now working again after finally switching ACPI to Standard PC -
....

I think the whole ACPI thing is more a bandage over a limitation inherent to x86 architecture i.e. having IRQ's in the first place. Standard PC mode gets you back to full control of IRQ allocation (if the bios allows it). CW cards are not the only cards having problems. For example, look at what RME picked up about Windows XP SP2 just recently.

....
I might even post some tracks later, if the CW gear continues to work!!

Well let's hope Windows behaves itself for you as well!

Don't forget to post up some of your work too.

[ This Message was edited by: bassdude on 2004-08-20 08:20 ]

geoffd99 · Post by **geoffd99** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:31 am

Hello my techno malfunctioning friends.

Well I have posted a track as threatened, it is in Music forum at

http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... forum=17&0

PS all my gear works fine now, remember ACPI mode single PC!!!

sharcsound · Post by **sharcsound** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:05 am

On one day over a week ago I got 3 freezes in the middle of my work. That evening I downloaded a little program from Microsft called UPHClean that cleans the hive. I don't know if this program will help anyone else having freezing problem, but I haven't had anymore freezing in over a week and a half of working everyday. It would be interesting to find out if this program will stop the freezes that other SCOPE users are having with the P4C800-E Deluxe board.

from the readme:
WHAT IS UPHCLEAN
================

UPHClean is a service that once and for all gets rid of problems with user
profile not unloading.

You are having profile unload problems if you experience slow logoff (with
Saving Settings for most of the time while logging off), roaming profiles
that do not reconcile, or the registry size limit is reached.

WHY DO PROFILES NOT UNLOAD?
===========================

Many system and service processes do work on behalf of users. When the work
is done the system or service process is responsible for releasing handles it
has to the user profile hive. If this is not done by the service as the user
logs off the profile cannot be unloaded.

This problem in code can be caused by improper coding either in Microsoft
software or 3rd party software (e.g. printer drivers, virus scanner service,
etc). With the information provided by the system there is no way to find
out what software needs to be corrected to allow profiles to unload.
Windows XP and 2003:
The profile is reconciled using a copy of the contents of the registry. The
user is not made to wait as in Windows 2000. The problem left is that the
computer cannot recover the memory the profile uses until it can be unloaded.

Also in some cases (e.g. using anonymous logons) you may find that you cannot
log on if the profile cannot be unloaded.

WHY SHOULD I USE UPHCLEAN?
==========================

In the past these issues have been fixed by code changes to release the
registry handle. The disadvantage of this approach is that in many cases
multiple issues (different code paths) are causing the profiles to not
unload. Unless all problem code paths are fixed profiles do not unload.

The concept of UPHClean is to deal with these the same way the operating
system deals with other resource issues: when a task is done resources
(memory, handles, etc) are automatically reclaimed. UPHClean accomplishes
this simply by monitoring for users to log off and verifying that unused
resources are reclaimed. If they are not it reclaims the resource and logs
its action. This approach is superior as it works for any known reason
that profiles do not unload and also will keep working to address new
unknown issues.

Another advantage to UPHClean is that no computer restart is required to
install it or remove it (except on Windows NT 4). You can install and
remove UPHClean to find out whether it helps with a profile unload problem or
not. You can do this without having to worry about what hotfix, service pack,
feature pack, etc has been installed. Set it and forget is the goal of
UPHClean.

You can download UPHClean here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en