some infos about Klangbox

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:18 pm

I completely agree with Darkrezin's last post. In fact if the box he speaks of could load/run ANY 3rd party SFP modular developement derived from the Scope sdk, then you'd potentially have the most powerfull & flexable sound box in existance. It would also be much closer to the Scope-in-a-box that so many people crave for.

dawman · Post by **dawman** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:32 pm

I think that Creamware has come full circle now, and hope they get all the cheap bastards with good ears out there to spend their money sometime this decade. I chat alot with touring FOH, backline, and monitor guys and love to hear about how their keyboard guys use all free, and sponsored gear, your basic Yamaha, Roland, Blah,blah stuff. These racks would be loved by road crews and frugally stiff keyboard guys too. You basically have to pry the cash out of their pockets. For whenever they do pull out some greenback dollars, George Washington squints his eyes, as he has never seen the sunlight since birth.
I wish my Saxon brothers well, and congradulate you for hitting the consumer market with a quality, low priced, rack mounted piece of kit. Many proud developers have made great hardware / software in the past, just to have their hearts broke by the ROI, and R & D costs. In the end the wealth rolls in from the consumer market sales, not the high end buyers, unless you have Scope DP prices and sell 1000's.

The Body Of Ralf,

Post by **hubird** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:00 pm

hey, give us back that body of Ralf

symbiote · Post by **symbiote** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:40 pm

On 2006-10-09 01:36, erminardi wrote:
The people, here, often seems to forget & don't understand the real power of the VSTi standard in the market. I don't know why...
With a complete VSTi wrapper+external DSP klangbox Creamy could cover ALL the targets of the market, from Pro to "poor" home musician.

no, we understand that perfectly. what you don't seem to understand is that VST/VSTi is *not* a hardware integration standard, period. especially not for realtime operation. it's made and designed strictly for software synthesis/processing within a host, and all attempts to integrate hardware boxes with it are purely hacks.

the tc powercore/uad aren't a good example, as, contrary to the ASB/Klangboxes, they don't have audio outputs, aren't realtime, and can only work within a VST host, not by themselves as stand-alone units. they are purely VST accelerators.

just take the Virus TI example, which as far as i know is the only proper realtime outboard synth that has a VST wrapper (you lose the realtime aspect with the VST wrapper though, since it'll do plugin delay compensation). it was released 8 months late, and it took at least another year to iron out most of the bugs (and there are still some left for some people) and make it work reliably.

this being said, a non-realtime VST accelerator from creamware would indeed be a pretty good idea, but it'd have to be a separate product from ASB/Klang, for purely technical reasons.

husker · Post by **husker** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:49 pm

Exactly....if I can send program changes and CC's from my host, I don't *need* a patch editor running as a VST, in fact I would much prefer it if I wasn't (as long as it doesn't stomp on my host/midi while it's running).

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:20 am

Symbiote - well said.

Virus TI = lame wackness

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:29 am

Totally idiotic IMHO

[ This Message was edited by: darkrezin on 2006-10-10 09:30 ]

scary808 · Post by **scary808** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:47 pm

On 2006-10-09 13:05, darkrezin wrote:
That last post was beside the point. I think a Mod3+Flexor Klangbox or ASB is Creamware's best chance at hitting some good sales and also gaining a lot of respect and kudos from the industry.

I was thinking the same thing. However, give it stereo in, 4 out or more. That one device could be an all in one live solution. Then again, hopefully we'll get a firewire CROSS-PLATFORM solution with Scope & all of it's benefits.

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:40 am

Such a device will be very interesting for synth-heads and Creamware enthousiast, but it will never have the mass-market appeal that the current range of ASB's/Klangboxes obviously has.

darkrezin · Post by **darkrezin** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:41 am

Maybe, maybe not. I think a semi-modular would be the best solution. It would be interesting to know sales figures for the Nord Mod G2 Engine.

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:59 am

As long as it had a large library of really good constructions/presets, then I think there would still be a lot of interest. There are people who would be interested in the flexibility of sound a system like this could provide without ever really wanting to dive into the construction aspect (I think there are only a small number of people interested in building their own synth structures - but many, many more that would be interested in using already great structures and tweaking presets).

Anna Lüse · Post by **Anna Lüse** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:05 am

A good structure is the Minimoog, Prophet-5 und Odyssey.

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:06 am

On 2006-10-10 05:20, darkrezin wrote:
Symbiote - well said.

Virus TI = lame wackness

Have you checked out Australis on your chamy?

johnbowen · Post by **johnbowen** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:03 am

On 2006-10-11 06:59, huffcw wrote:
As long as it had a large library of really good constructions/presets, then I think there would still be a lot of interest. There are people who would be interested in the flexibility of sound a system like this could provide without ever really wanting to dive into the construction aspect...

Hi All,

What everyone is missing here is that the ASB hardware is not structured to handle a variable architecture! For Modular patches, every combination of modules can be different, and the current ASB hardware needs a fixed allocation of DSP modules that is first optimised and recoded, then loaded into the hardware. There are no provisions for switching from 1 DSP image to another in the current ASB hardware - it is a fixed system. Therefore, you can't have all 4 ASB products in a single unit at the moment, since this would require switching the DSP image. Same for Modular patches - you could have one patch, and invite many to participate creating presets for it, but you could not have any other patch.

Now, at some point, you would expect Creamware will be able to make changes to the ASB system to allow for image switching (both internally, or by replacing it from a computer), but I don't know how much more this would add to the cost or complexity of such as system. Obviously, the ASB projects are kept to a fairly simple application for ease-of-use and low cost factor.

regards,
john b.

[ This Message was edited by: johnbowen on 2006-10-13 12:04 ]

erminardi · Post by **erminardi** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:36 pm

At last an authoritative voice from one "Scope master" about this interesting & controversial tread.
How many technical things that we don't know

Anyway a future external box with Modular is certainly welcome

HUROLURA · Post by **HUROLURA** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:46 pm

OK John,

I do think you made a point there.

But would you need such flexibility to design a KlangBox-based QUANTUM WAVE or SOLARIS.

From what I guess, Quantum Wave does not need such dynamic loading structure. Is it the same for SOLARIS.

Please give us some news about your current work, john.

CheerZ

HUROLURA · Post by **HUROLURA** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:49 pm

Thinking a bit more about that topic, my NOAH is able to do such thing without the need of a PC structure.
The technology should have been there. Or do the ASB/Klangbox hardware design is so much different compared to the NOAH (simplification for lower cost).
Moreover, from the information I understood, ASB and Klangboxes are "just" powered by 2 high-speed DSP (a less complicated structure to manage compared to the 10-DSP NOAH EX structure).
Another solution would be to get from one Klangbox unit a pair 6-voice polyphonic synthesizer each of them optimized to one DSP. That would afford many combination to offer some new products:
- dual 6 voices limited MINIMAX
- 6 voices MINIMAX + 6 voices PRO-5
- 6 voices MINIMAX + 6 voices PRODYSSEY
- dual 6 voices PRO-5
- 6 voices PRO-5 + 6 voices PRODYSSEY
- dual 6 voices PRODYSSEY
OK, it is a bit more complicated to manage regarding sellings, but we just have to keep in mind that both original MINIMOOG and ARP ODYSSEY were monophonic and that the original PROPHET-5 was 5 voices polyphonic...

Come on guys, dreams sometimes have to come true.

CheerZ

[ This Message was edited by: HUROLURA on 2006-10-13 16:58 ]

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:15 pm

- the lack of multitimbrality is a software issue. It has been hinted before that this would come as a software update.

- the "why dont have all devs in a unit at $300" is just plain stupid.

- the issue of not having either STS-5000/modular/quantum wave/Solaris or likewise is a harware issue. They WOULD have a killer if they could do a standalone version of Solaris, but it takes time and money. If current ASBs/klangboxes generates enuff revenues, a Solaris/quantum box would be the only sensible option.

just my 1,4 euros.

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:25 pm

btw, its getting close to ten years and we
are still celebrating the same technology! AND ITS STILL (at least sort of) BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE!

this is totally off topic but hey, it should be mentioned in this "whats the hype?" world.

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:18 am

I`m sure CW could easily build a Klangbox that can switch the different softwares: Prodyssey, Pro-12, Minimax ....

But: I`m sure its much more work, to make the different software plug-ins work parallel.
The would cost the need to implement Multitasking/"sharing of the ressources" into these boxes.

So this would be a good thing and a first step into a new Scope hardware....