asus dualcore and pc freezes

An area for people to discuss Scope related problems, issues, etc.

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psionic
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Post by psionic »

On 2006-03-17 12:10, garyb wrote:
it's not the drivers.
see the broken motherboard abover that made problems in this thread.
Hi
As I understood, VIPAL has the broken motherboard and AMD, but I was quoting MRVINYL wich said that he tried everything ( just as I am ) but he has Intel HT - and he didn't say that the broken drivers are the problem...
Also VIPAL has different problem, but has correctly sugested to MRVINYL to disable acpi - worked for me on Intel HT...

And another thing:
mr. GaryB ... I don't know why you are so determined to defend Scope drivers. They are old and unstable with newer motherboards.If you remember - we already had our discussion about stabillity and you were very shure that the drivers are OK. How can they be? Is there a single piece of hardware with 100% working drivers? That is the reason why there are always a new version. If something works on 20 of 50 computers - even 40 of 50 - it is not a good driver. And Creamware hasn't done anything about it since 2001. Perfect drivers for all the times on all OS ? I doubt it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: psionic on 2006-03-17 14:42 ]</font>
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garyb
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Post by garyb »

i've built too many scope computers to argue...there are many more that work than not. computers are pretty complicated machines. it's hard to place blame in one spot so easily. if you paid attention you'd have seen that one of the best motherboards currently is the asus p5 wd2 premium, a very new motherboard....
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ChristianB
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Post by ChristianB »

hi

I had that kind of random crash and what solved it, is if i'm not using the sequencer midi source and the sequencer midi dest at the same time...in order words I stoped using any sequencer midi dest.
Keep on searching!

Cb)-
psionic
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Post by psionic »

On 2006-03-22 17:55, ChristianB wrote:
hi

I had that kind of random crash and what solved it, is if i'm not using the sequencer midi source and the sequencer midi dest at the same time...in order words I stoped using any sequencer midi dest.
Keep on searching!

Cb)-
Hey... ( especially gary B... )
Do I need to say something more ? F***KING German Thieves. No drivers ! FUCK You! Discard my account, disable scope via internet, I don't give a damn!!! It is not WORKING!!!

To be more precise:
If you have 865/875 and LUNA2... Kiss your seq out module goodbye! It is a shame for such a good idea to be wasted by some ( morronic ) birocrats! this card is AWESOME but unfinished software.
GIVE US NEW DRIVERS!!!

... or lower cost of your "SCOPE PLATFORM" to 30 euros - that is the price wich is suitable...

They took my 500 E for unfinished product, and now, I am the only one with problem of that kind... ( ?! )

Go to http://www.soundblaster.com to see how to make a good product WORTH every cent of 50 E.

Blame CREAMWARE for the drivers!!!
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astroman
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Post by astroman »

On 2006-04-02 17:28, psionic wrote:
... and now, I am the only one with problem of that kind... ( ?! )

Go to http://www.soundblaster.com to see how to make a good product WORTH every cent of 50 E...
put on David Bowie's Rock 'n Roll Suicide - you're not alone and he'll help you with the pain :grin:

YES, JUST DO IT
I bought a SBLive for 180 Euro that had a hardware phase bug - and I was about to write a similiar sh*t like yours above to Wizzoo wtf can't you sample a Rhodes ???

cheers, Tom
psionic
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Post by psionic »

Than I am just stupeed! I have the AUDIGY 2 ZS ( besides my non-well working Luna 2 + 24/96 ) and it is just perfect in every way...

... Ofcourse, you need to understand their fixed clock rate, and a bunch of similar things, but hey! it is only 50 E!
For the money given - it works perfectly...
Now, compare it with Creamware's 500...
And imagine u are living in east europe :grin:

... Even better: Try CMI 8738 and ASIO4ALL combination :grin: It works perfectly, and you will spend only 10 E :grin: :grin:

... The one in need of professional sound is not on this forum...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: psionic on 2006-04-02 18:01 ]</font>
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astroman
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Post by astroman »

hmm, that might explain your problems
you (possibly) don't read carefully - or impatiently.

I wrote 'a 180 Euro Soundblaster Live' - the original one - and it was sold for several years with the front channel phase bug never solved - just google it.

btw to blame a certain george dubble-u won't change the situation in iraq

cheers, Tom

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-04-02 18:08 ]</font>
psionic
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Post by psionic »

OK, I was just sarcastic. The point is that even a cmi8738 'might' to get the job done less painfull than Scope for muuuch less money. If someone is making a professional product, it is really untolerable to do it so sloppy, and to ask such a big amount of money for it. I know what professional means. I work in a major theatre in my country. If we bought Scope, I would be fired long time ago. Just imagine - Live performance and - even possibility to freeze ? I use M-Audio's Delta 66 - and it work just perfect. Scope platform is just not stable enough... And I throw such money for it ( for home-studio usage )

I am afraid that I didn't understood it well - maybie you are telling me that my particular card has problem? I tought so...But look out in the forum.
I don't know - every dsp HAS to have a kind of bios or similar... But they are not responding at CREAMWARE to my emails...
... and where are the 64 bit drivers? This 'scope' project has died long time ago, and now they just scavenging the product's remains...

p.s. sorry 'bout 'german thieves' not all germans are thieves... they are synonim for professionalism... but not in this case. my bad.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: psionic on 2006-04-02 18:55 ]</font>
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garyb
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Post by garyb »

mine works reliably..
i'm sorry if that makes me a target for derision. maybe you want me to come set up your computer?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-04-03 01:20 ]</font>
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astroman
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Post by astroman »

On 2006-04-02 18:16, psionic wrote:
... maybie you are telling me that my particular card has problem? I tought so...But look out in the forum.
I'm not gonna tell you anything - and I do appreciate a good portion of sarcasm :wink:

Normally one wouldn't care about a '...take a Soundlbaster...' advice, but in your case it's rather funny because of the following:

the SBLive didn't even work basically, yet it was the world's best selling card (in it's years) :wink:

Creative never cared about this bug and they announced ASIO driver which they never delivered...
Does this ring something in your mind ?

Creative Labs CAN afford any developement effort - and still refused to relase driver that was highly demanded on the internet.
In those years noone succeeded to squeeze any valid response from them, so try your luck...

(imho) they made some analyses how many cards they could sell MORE if they provided the Asio stuff and it probably turned out to be 1% compared to their overall market segment.
Probably they decided to give the developers some more economic tasks to do.

That said about CL - I lost track about anything after the SBLive because I got my first Pulsar then.
Which worked exactly as supposed to.
...I don't know - every dsp HAS to have a kind of bios or similar... But they are not responding at CREAMWARE to my emails...
not all digital gear HAS to work like a computer mobo :wink:

honestly, what do you expect ?
you express yourself (which is your right) in a way that shows a severe lack of understanding and competence (I assume you wrote similiar to your recent literary flood)

there is nothing a company could respond to you - as you wouldn't understand it.

and there is nothing they could respond to me either (considering me technically educated with many years of business experience), because I could be a smart a** from competition

honestly, this is really not intended to put you down in any way.
You have all the right to say the card doesn't fit your needs, there's a cheaper replacement (for you) and you may even complain about a lack of email response.

But it makes few sense to tell that your Luna doesn't work with an 865 chipset while hundreds of others do - and blame that to an obscure thing about which you don't have any idea :wink:
you're not in charge on CWA's budget and schedule - just suggest what you'd like to see. If it's good (and possible) it will probably make it.

cheers, tom
psionic
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Post by psionic »

[quote]
On 2006-04-03 01:18, garyb wrote:
mine works reliably..
i'm sorry if that makes me a target for derision. maybe you want me to come set up your computer?

... Sorry I don't have enough money... Already spent my savings on SCOPE :wink:
psionic
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Post by psionic »

I'm not gonna tell you anything - and I do appreciate a good portion of sarcasm :wink:
Ok, I see you didn't get it quite... The point was : " Hey, buy the cheapest, most amateur card ( wich includes all the resamplings, non exsisting asio etc. on creative's CMI's or any other card ) and it'll work better than scope :smile: And you will not regret the money invested in it "
... so - that was sarcasm. Scope is STILL a pro card much better than a great number of other PRO cards... But it has BUGS - THE PROVEN ONES in this very forum, and it makes it sloppy made piece of equipement - period.

My efforts are in direction of creamware - want to make them to realise that if they could make the damn drivers - they certanly would get a big portion of market. Think about it: 64bit drivers, up-to-date software, and they will make a major profit. But as you said - I am not in charge of their financial planning...
Instead, they (the tech staff) went god-knows-where, and leave Creamware to gain profit from unsold products. That would be ok 3-4 years ago, but the need of evolving is always there. Software became outdated.
Creative Labs CAN afford any developement effort - and still refused to relase driver that was highly demanded on the internet.
And now something in favour of Creative:
They DID relase a new product - Audigy. They had very unstable asio drivers at a beginning, but since then, their drivers are rock-stable in every app I used. You can even open several ASIO clients (multi asio - not possible with the SCOPE) They are far from pro - fixed 48khz, bad SNR ratios... but as I said. For the money given... And now there is Audigy X-Fi. I haven't tried it yet, but as I can conclude - there is no more resampling, no fixed clock - the real semi-pro card. It has similar specs like E-MU - I bet they just took the DSP from the E-MU. No balanced connectors, no sync, aes ebu... make the card only for home usage.
I lost track about anything after the SBLive because I got my first Pulsar then.
Which worked exactly as supposed to.
...Almost :smile: It was you - that agreed that there were a few bugs in SCOPE. Remember ? Bad labels, no control room output on 5th pin...
If I dig some more I would deffinitely find more ...
not all digital gear HAS to work like a computer mobo :wink:
No, not like mobo... But, Scope has DSP,and has some PICs wich have their code written in creamware. PICs are microprocessors, and microcontrollers, present in every card in PC, in remote controls, cell phones, TVs...
They are sold 'emty' and manufacturer uses them in accordance of needs. That is their name - programmable controller or PIC.
you express yourself (which is your right) in a way that shows a severe lack of understanding and competence. There is nothing a company could respond to you - as you wouldn't understand it.
I fail to see how did you conclude that... I think I understand it TOO well...
You have all the right to say the card doesn't fit your needs, there's a cheaper replacement (for you) and you may even complain about a lack of email response.
Card DOES fit my needs! It fits more than I want, but is not working the way it should...
It is the main reason I am here. I don't want to throw it away, I want it to work. I found that it is not broken - lot of people has similar problem. So... FIRMWARE, BIOS, DRIVERS, Whatever PLEASEEE...

cheers and thanks for taking part in this debate. I tought I would be kicked out... There IS a democracy after all :grin:



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: psionic on 2006-04-03 08:05 ]</font>
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garyb
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Post by garyb »

shouting "FIRE !" in a crowded theater is not proper even in "free speech", and being rude has nothing to do with democracy. people are looking for help with their problem in this forum, not rhetoric directed at a company you don't like.

spam cwa all you like. please don't spam here.
symbiote
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Post by symbiote »

The same pointless litany, over and over...

Zzz...

Don't like it? Please sell your cards and get something you like instead. Maybe send us some of your 64-bit masters too when you are done.

Seriously, what a tool.
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astroman
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Post by astroman »

On 2006-04-03 08:00, psionic wrote:
you express yourself (which is your right) in a way that shows a severe lack of understanding and competence. There is nothing a company could respond to you - as you wouldn't understand it.
I fail to see how did you conclude that... I think I understand it TOO well...
ok, I take that back regarding your technical competence - the impression may have come up by the choice of certain words.

but remember the 2nd part of the statement you quote above:
A company like CWA will NEVER communicate technical or schedule details to anyone - be it an idiot like me or a smart tech like you :wink:

you write you're from east Europe - so you probably know that there are a lot of business opportunities in your area due to lower wages.
and to be honest - there are some frightenly talented dudes out there as as well :razz:
(for example I've licensed a JavaScript Lib from there)

So your suggestions may be affordable in your area, in Germany they are definetely not - CWA seems to have off-shored some stuff to India, but I guess that from rumors only.

Anway - I am convinced they won't sell even a dozen cards more with different 'drivers'.
Usually one doesn't buy a 500-1000 Euro card without knowing what to expect.
And any of their cards still fullfills what's to be expected in usability versus cash, whatever bugs there are.

I don't have to 'admit' bugs :wink:
it's not my product - and I have a few more than you mention on my system.
I am even aware of them - but I don't want to hang the card on my wamll or want to exhibit it as a 20th century symbol of technology.

I want to squeeze sounds out of it, route internal AND external gear, digitize and restore my (humble) vinyl collection.
I can remove a good part of the à la mode shatter verb from late 60s records by shortening the decay with TransientDesigner and on the fly punch-up flat 80s pressings by the STW MasterComp in the signal path, send my e-guitar through a faithful Leslie or a better-than-space-echo device etc etc
The VDAT (I'm an old fashioned non-sequencer-tape-method guy) gives me a bunch of ADATs without mechanical problems with upto 32bits precision.

I don't care if the Minimax loads with an error that it has to re-arrange dsp - I press ok and the 2nd attempt works.
My system sometimes freezes when loading a device after beeing idle for a longer time - in those cases I quit and restart SFP.
Takes 15 seconds, so I do not even bother if it's the Win system option 'reset board if idle' or not.
If one channel on a mixer contantly fails - ok, I'll leave it out and use the next one.

I have bought a lot of 3rd party devices - all give me the feeling to be true instruments - there's not a single one I regret. :grin:

cheers, Tom
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Post by psionic »

Hi...
to astroman:

... it seems that you are the only one in this whole forum who isn't pissed off on every single mentioning of the word BUG or similar. Everybody takes it so personally...

The Scope config in my computer works well for everything else, except for a few minor and one bigger fault... So it is usable, but I feel like I bought brand new Ferarri with broken lights on registration plates and a few scratches... No big deal but annoying. I only think that 'ferrarri should repaint the vechicle and fix that tiny lights above the plates' if you know what I mean... :smile:

But when I say that - everyone here is acting like I am a madman >> shouting "FIRE!" in a full theater << :smile:
( that's how your 'western democracy' works? ...another utopia... there is no democracy nowhere in the world - but this about democracy is REALLY a spam, don't pay attention to it, please :grin: )

OK, no more spamming...

to symbiote:

Please read the previous replies in this thread to get the full picture... I didn't say I don't like it... I say it has to be updated, because it is problem for a number of users... It is not only my case...
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astroman
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Post by astroman »

On 2006-04-03 16:51, psionic wrote:
... But when I say that - everyone here is acting like I am a madman >> shouting "FIRE!" in a full theater << :smile: ...
same problem again - you didn't read carefully :wink:
noone said that you shouted 'Fire!' - the quote was that it's not a good idea to shout that in a full theatre - as it's not a good idea to try to provoke a reaction by repeatingly posting the same statement.

I have worked in support myself in the 80s - there were quite a couple of dudes who tried it this way.
You can bet they were ALWAYS the last ones being served - if at all :wink:

people really don't take it personally, but are simply annoyed by the same debate over and over again - and thus suggest to sell the card.

There is no evidence at all to assume that a Luna doesn't work on 865 chipsets.
If you observe more problems with Lunas than with Scope Pros then think about the different buyer's groups, what they typically run on their system and how they deal with it, not about one single component of the system :wink:

A Windows DAW is always a complex setup and it's always a piece of crap by default - that it runs is pure luck.
But as in betting on horse-runs some experience can help tremendously - yet the number of possible error conditions pretty high.

Someone on this forums discussed his problems up and down for almost a year and possibly changed 3 mobos and more or less insisted that it was a CWA fault - either software or hardware.
One day he solved his problems with a sophisticated (commercial) anti-virus software...

On the other hand it's known that some parts of SFP interact with anti-virussoftware in an unpleasant way.
If your DAW is also on the internet you're likely to catch one or the other unpleasant piece of code, which is probably resistant to free anti-spyware/virus tools.

As long as ANY piece of cr*cked software is installed you cannot even assume your machine is solid.
No need to tell it isn't so - just draw your own conclusion.

cheers, tom

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2006-04-03 20:23 ]</font>
psionic
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Post by psionic »

OK, astroman, I have to answer you...
I have already written of my problem, but I will now try to repeat only important part of it:

I had Luna2 dated 2003 on my Northwood 2.4 on Gigabyte mobo with SIS chipset(!). Scope ran smoothly - I was even not aware of some small errors like messed labels. Used a single project all the time. It had midi, stm16, and a few effects like compressors, eqs, etc.
I played games on it, went to internet, done whatever I like... Not a DAW setup at all :smile: But it worket just fine.
Then I decided to buy better comp. I bought ASUS p4p800X and Prescott 3.00 HT / 1Mb cache / Dual DDR. My old computer remained.
That is where the trouble started.
Got new Scope 4.0. First I couldn't install it because of "/" not "" ( default location c:/scope should be c:scope ) It siply refused to go any further. It took me half a day to resolve the mystery.I found a few more problems of that kind on this very forum.
After that - computer started to freeze. Why, I didn't had idea. I have some tech experience and knoledge and began messing with IRQs, DMAs, reinstalls... Started to pull out components, and triangulated the problem: Luna2 card. Then I disconnected my keyboard from midi, and found that the problem is still there. Connected input from midi of another computer, and send only note on and offs - freezing again. So much of the midi filtering. I have Korg KONTROL 49 keyb wich has midi filtering, BTW. Then I sold my mobo and bought GIGABYTE GA8IPE1000G, and different supply (Coolermaster 400W), changed graphic with the old one, DIMMs, and HDisks (old were PATA, new were SATA) and reinstalled WINDOWSXP + SP1. No changes... Then I even tried to play notes with keyboard on the small keyboard device in luna. Any messing with MIDI SEQ DEST freezed my comp and HDD light went red all the time - ( like bad sector ) No interconnections, loopbacks,etc. Then I got really angry. Asked my friend to borrow his LUNA2 - the same. In the meanwhile, I was fighting small bugs like no connection path displayed, no out from devices, and difficulties in installation procedure. Most of them costed me nerves.

I finally get it working by disabling more than 16 IRQs, and that's the most I can get from it.

Ok, I swallowed it all, but few days ago I found another stupid bug - small and insignifficant - but that was it. I exploded, and tried to get even thinking that there are people from CW here, who will read my stupid posts directly. Childish, but what else could I do?

Besides theatre, where there is no place for errors in live performance, I also work in sound studio as computer techie and arranger on CUBASE. I use a lot of hardware along with it, Behringer DDX3216 digital mixer, korg sound module, korg triton keyb, knowledge to avoid earth loopings and hum in signal cables ( especcialy in theatre, where light dimmers cause so much RFI ), electronical experience ( I built a couple of amps, light dimmers etc, making audio cables is part of my everyday job... ) so I consider myself technically competent enough to claim a bug in software.

Sorry for the long post, If anyone consider this spam - please forgive me, I will not write it anymore.

So here it is - *now* draw a conclusion ... What should anyone do ? I know from the start that nothing will change with my wining... But still, I can't belive the stubborness in standing on cwa's side of some users on this forum. Simply can't...

cheerz!


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: psionic on 2006-04-03 21:31 ]</font>
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astroman
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Post by astroman »

I see your point and you obviously have enough experience to deal with the case.
Yet you have to admit that you had few ideas about the source of your 'trouble' - as we all have when it comes to these obscure setup problems.
The point is not to overreact - arbitrarily disabling interupts and features cannot be a solution. As you experienced the mess will only increase.

I can write how I would deal with it but cannot be entirely clear on some details because I don't have XP.

One point in advance - you think you corned the error location at the midi ports.
That conclusion is definetely wrong - because you didn't verify the source yet, it only manifests itself at the midi port.
I once had a system that complained 'the Oracle driver bla, bla is corrupted or not installed'. OMG I thought, not THAT install again :roll:

Fortunately it was a virtual machine so I copied a backup image over it - same error.
Ok, went to a twin machine with an identical setup, verfied that the Oracle stuff worked, quit the system and transferred a copy to the failing machine.
The exact image that worked 5 minutes ago produced the same error :eek:

You should have seen my face...
It was clear that the error message was a fake, so I considered WHAT was the difference between the 2 boxes, what had changed in the last couple of days ?
Nothing but a Dimm - removed the new memory, started the machine and bingo(!), all up and running.

If had reacted according to the error message about the corrupt database driver I could have installed that box over and over again, including Windows and it would always fail... :razz:

Does that remind you on something ?

so here it goes:

if you don't have a copy of your allkeys file on USB stick (or similiar), copy the file SCOPE.RGY from the appbin folder. It's the system's current key file.

inspect all the capps on the mobo for bulky tops (you know what I mean, it's not very likely, but just to be sure)
if you're not absolutely sure that the heatsink sits properly, set the bios so the machine doesn't exceed (say) 2 GHZ (the Giga has a factor in BIOS for that)
remove the video card and use the onboard
disable all unneeded peripherals as usual

install from scratch on an empty drive without the Luna, using an original install medium or a verfied copy.
You will most likely have a DVD writer in your machine and those can be totally unreliable.
I've seen disks with tons of read errors that finally managed to 'copy' scans over to the HD which were completely messed up - due to almost invisible fingerprints.

check if Windows is ok
make an image copy of the empty system state if you like.
I can't tell anything about XP registration/activation but afaik it should be the point here.
There may be software to circumvent it - if you plan to use something in this direction you can stop here and spare the rest.
Return to the empty disk and install Win98 or W2K instead.
As mentioned I don't have it myself and I don't suspect that you use whatever copies, but I mention it for completeness.

now install the card's drivers and afterwards the card itself according to the instructions from a RELIABLE source.
If it's on CD I'd copy it over to the HD as that seems to work better.

A download may not always be reliable - to be sure you could make 2 new downloads and verify that the content is identical.

This should give you a more or less basic setup to check any errors you previously had.
Do not install a sequencer or any fancy stuff yet. The point is to verify your Luna works.

if there's anything strange with the hardware it should show up now

good luck, Tom
(I know you know most of the blurb above, but that's how I would do it)
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Post by Shroomz~> »

You're misunderstanding your own problem. If you actually want to get a Scope DAW running get a different mobo (one of the one's with successfull reports here on Z) & set it up properly. It's that simple.

I'd agree that CWA defense is somtimes misguidedly on some folks agenda here, but not for us all. In this case however, I really do feel that your problems are a combo of bad luck & impatience, rather than a problem with your CW card. At this end we have 2 Scope rigs. One that's been running a PulsarII & 2 PS's flawlessly (99.7% of the time at least) for more than 12 months on an A7N8X-deluxe & one that's recently been successfully setup & running sweet in a testing phase on an Asrock K7NF2-RAID. We're hoping the Asrock board will perform as well as our Asus has for us as it's got a similar NF2 chipset & was installed with the same tweeks. Both boxes are reasonably well optimised & we foresee no problems with them. As long as we stock up on some spare Ram & CPU's, I predict being able to run our current & future Scope cards on them for the next 3 or 4 years at least. The Asus mobo wasn't cheap when I first bought it, but the Asrock bought recently was a complete bargain at about 40euro due to SocketA chips becoming obsolete. You could say 'not a future proof investment' or similar, but it's future proof for us if it works well, which they DO

I believe there are many (dozens) of similar success stories from folks running Scope on Nforce3 mobos.... amongst many others. So I'm sorry to blunt, but I think you're talking out of your sphinkter.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shroomz on 2006-04-04 03:42 ]</font>
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