PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Once again, these comments about the technical issues are from people who don't use Vista.

why should i really care? when Vista is the only choice for a PC, as XP is now(for the apps i use), i'll happily use it and think it works just fine. there are aspects to Vista that are repulsive, however. i see no reason to jump in poop river when the rowboat hasn't sunk yet....

Vista's great! i takes advantage of today's faster processors and memory...by using them up. use vista with all it's wonderful features and it's beautiful, but it takes 1gb of ram for the os alone! it's easy to see another of those kinds of updates that end up looking more awesome than ever, but do the same amount of work. my computer with a 550mhz Athlon, which was my first scope machine was upgraded to a 900mhz processor and 1gb of ram. it then, with Logic PC and Scope running on a tweaked win98, did just as much work as the later 3.2ghz P4 with 2gb of ram running Scope and Cubase SX on XP.

it's true, i had to do much less tweaking to make XP work, but it's also true that what made XP do as much work as win98 was turning off most of XP's glamorous "features". all in all, XP's file system(NTFS) is superior to 98's(FAT), and the wobbly DOS underpinning was removed in going from 98 to XP, which has made the change worth it, but with Vista, there's not really that kind of obvious advantage....

i think valis hit the nail on the head. Vista is ME. the real new OS is around the corner. they always do that to us, it's the same with hardware. remember the RAMBUS premium, fast memory, which really ended up being just the setup for DDR? remember "Dual Core", which was just the setup for Core2? remember the G5 PCI-X, which 6 months later was the G5 PCI-E?

braincell wrote:Once again, these comments about the technical issues are from people who don't use Vista.

Hate to tell you this braincell, but my observations aren't merely heresay (if my figures on base ram usage after tweaking vista weren't a hint). I just see no reason atm to put it up with Vista on my main work machines.


Vista is the only MS operating system in the last 10 yrs that I didn't get a free copy or two of for finishing the right beta milestones. For win2k & xp things were stable enough they were my primary use OS before they were even out of beta, I lived with Vista on a few boxes here for several months but didn't use it enough to get my free copies and din't really care either. If I don't need to use more than 3Gb for any given app (and 4Gb overall) on my primary work box my wife definately doesn't need to on her box, and this is really the only compelling reason to move to Vista (xp64 is worse in terms of software & hardware support). Now when I do get to where I want 8 or 16Gb available I hope Vista is either in better shape or there's a better alternative out.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029 ... -10,00.htm

Certainly I won't disagree that there's a certain level of "if it aint broke dont fix it" among the PlanetZ membership (and musicians in general are renowned for using ancient technology that performs fine). But in this case I suspect there's more to it than just being shy of new things.

i don't care about their audio management and mixer on my scope machine. improving the consumer and rights management experience does nothing for me in my music production machine. these are things i don't want or need. i'm sure it works well. i'm sure it would work much better without usb for audio stickers and integrated mixers....

cranky this morning i guess...

"PCIe cards which incorporate the HD Audio bus can qualify"

It would be great if we could have this but I guess we can't expect any more developments for obvious reasons. I wish the company would be sold to a company with a lot of cash and good management skills.

sorry Braincell, but that's pleading for capital pubishment regarding 'Scope as we know it'
a company with good manegement would first of all find out that it's a niche market
they would increase all prices to 'comparable' products in the pro-audio domain
support wouldn't be free anymore as pros write it off the tax balance anyway
you should be more than happy about the engagement of SonicCore who act as good as it gets from a 'traditional' position.
'Good manegement' rarely (if at all) decides emotionally and driven by passion

cheers, Tom

There are plenty of niche items that do much better than this. Whenever I had mentioned these cards to musicians, they had never heard of them. It's pretty difficult for a store to sell something when it does not carry that item. The shop I used to buy from had Creamware initially but my salesman told me that they stopped carrying them after the first couple of years because they had so many issues with the distributer. I didn't ask what the issues were but I'm thinking this was not an isolated incident. Another matter is advertising of which there was none. It costs a lot which is why good business people get investors. It simply is not enough to have a good or great product, people have to know about it and that takes money and skill.

and you call the cards expensive already...they would only have to be more expensive then, as the investers should be paid anyway.

braincell wrote:... Another matter is advertising of which there was none. It costs a lot which is why good business people get investors. It simply is not enough to have a good or great product, people have to know about it and that takes money and skill.

I agree on your bottomline, but you may not know that once there was massive advertizing in all german music mags. Full page, double page, back of cover etc.
They were known... as a little expensive... as a little exotic - and there's probably no need to mention the 'cpu getting more powerful powerful...' argument.

but the real flaw (imho) for the 'ambitious' amateur was the lack of war*z - and for the professional it was the lack of workflow, in particular with Protools.
Mind you, during those days with the double page ads there was no Mix&Master Pack included...

cheers, Tom

The way I see it the only stuff that is successful in the market these days is cheap stuff like Behringer/M-Audio and to a small extent no-nonsense workhorses like RME. All people want to do is run 3489859123 mediocre plugins and they don't care if their stuff sounds flat and lacking dimension. They don't have time to get really creative and create their own sounds, they just want to sound like everyone else and will just go out and buy the plugins that everyone else is using, make the track out of sample libs, render it out for the website/advert/demo pitch or whatever. Even if someone is lucky enough to make money making 'music', most music is just disposable pap nowadays anyway so it's not like it has to sound good, the mastering guy will just pump it up to a square wave and it will sound 'f(l)at'. There's no way that something like Scope could be a mass market item because it's a bit too expensive for people who value number of instances over quality. I'm not saying everyone is like that - we're using the system after all - but if you're talking about any kind of big numbers that's the situation. Sorry for the rant but there it is.

yet -and there it is again- Scope isn't sexy...to the public.
While it can be!

I didn't even know that Germany had a large enough population to support having magazines .

yeah, that's correct - but the few readers often buy 3 or 4 and as you know it's all the same content anyway they are effectively rather cheap in production

Even the Dutch, as I'm subscribed to the German 'Sound&Recording' and 'Keyboards'.

stardust wrote:

And dont forget that swiss and austrian people undestand german, though some of them are not really speaking it.

ha!