PlanetZ forums - scopeusers.com

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:07 am**

Loshmi wrote:Shroomz, I made mix in 48khz project, with 0.1 version, no DSP management. Can you confirm this that device is working on 44.1, please. I am a litle confused about that....
Thanks

The device will work at 44.1 & also at 48 on some systems. I hadn't tested it at 48, as I thought there wasn't enough space on the dsps when using the dsp locked versions, but in fact it will work at 48 on our 14+6+3 card system & as voidar reports, it might also work at 48 for some 6 dsp card owners, but I'd imagine you might need a second card as well as a 6dsp one.

As I mentioned in a post above, there's now v0.6 releases of all 3 versions which have different dsp management, so try those. I'd try the board0&1 version first as you have 2 x 6dsp cards.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:10 am**

the19thbear wrote:yeah.. i guess you are right.... i just like the GUI of this mixer... but´if the sound is the same i might as well go with the vp 8, thanks. :)

The VM-1242 does not sound the same as the VP-8, It sounds better, I promise. ;)

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:16 am**

voidar wrote:Without DSP management the device is loading all over the place,

The new 'MINdspMAN' version of 0.6 should be better than the previous 'NOdspMAN' version, but I still can't guarantee consistant phase results on it, as blocks of modules are dynamically being assigned to individual dsps rather than being supposedly locked to them in a series configuration as in the board0 and board0&1 versions.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:25 am**

voidar wrote:I have managed to do something strange.

I set the sample rate for my XTCproject to 44.1K, then load your mixer, set up the connections and disables it from DSP.

I then load up REAPER XTC project loads up while A16U displays 44.1K, but after that I force set the sample rate from REAPER to 48K, the 48K LED on my A16U lights up. I then load the mixer into DSP again and everything loads up fine.

I can play back and load plug-ins (that work) in the host.

If I ever get a DSP error (like when clicking the XTC-icon to see DSP resources), I can just press NO or CANCEL and things will continue to play back, with loaded plugs still processing. If I hit YES (for optimizing) I will go into an unlimed loop of DSP capacity limit reached.

I find this phenomenon quite strange frankly , especially since the A16U reports the rate set by REAPER. And BTW, if I set rate to 88.K1 or 96K, I will get DSP errors.

Thanks voidar, that's very interesting feedback!! I don't use REAPER atm, but I'll need to check it out.

BTW, we need patch saving with this mixer.

I had planned preset inclusion for the v1.0 release, so maybe we'll include presets in v0.9 so they can be tested by everyone interested before v1.0 release.

UPDATE:
If I hook up the midi out connector it won't work.

Don't hook it up then

Just kidding, I'll look into that.

Thanks for the feedback voidar !!

regards,
Shroomz

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:01 pm**

Any chance of making the GUI of the device smaller so that it fits into a 1024x768 resolution?

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:13 pm**

Hi,

I previously said that it would come in a smaller version at some point so I won't go back on that, but it's going to be quite a lot of work. Look out for v1.0.

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:14 pm**

Yes I agree on the sound of the VP-8, but you did say that you were going to re-do all of the devices to date w/ the same circuitry. I was just hoping that some of the small set up guys would get a taste of the circuitry, so that when the other devices were upgraded, it would be a large pleasant surprise.

Didn't mean to steer you wrong there, but 2 x Lunas w/ this,...I dunno.

The VP-8 is an effective alternative to use w/ 2 x Lunas.

Don't you wish some guys would just break down and go buy a card?

Posted: **Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:17 pm**

Shroomz:

The MINdspMAN version seems to work in phase for my uses (summing mixer, not using inserts).

Anyway, my reasons for a patch system is just that it gets tiresome remapping MIDI for the whole mixer each release

..

BTW, there are only MIDI 119 controllers on this thing that seem to work.

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:46 am**

That's good news voidar !!
If you use the VM-1242 as a summing mixer you'll be using it's best quality. The architecture gives perfectly aligned summing of the 12 channels to the mix & buss stages. If you test it thoroughly you'll notice this. The reason is that as well as all 12 channels having a parallel signal path accross the dsps, the complete mix & buss stages reside on a single dsp, meaning that they must be aligned.

About the midi side of things, I was thinking about assigning the 12 main channels each their own midi channel, but I'm not sure yet if that's the best approach.

regards,
Shroomz

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:02 am**

in my system it doesn´t load correct:

Can't find DSP file ECC83 tube simulation B! - Please check installation.

Does anyone know, if I can download this file anywhere? or is it part of Modular II or III?

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:25 am**

Hi, the dsp file that you need is available to download in the first post of the following device thread >>> http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 14&start=0

cheers,
Shroomz

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:42 am**

Thx, I've downloaded it.

The mixer sounds really great. I love it

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:19 am**

hm, i think I found a bug about using the mixer with my BCF2000 Fader Box.
When I Link channels and give them controller numbers (For Example: Channel 1 = CC1, and Channel 2 = CC2) The Link doesn't work and an Exeption comes:
PepAddRouting: Pads SignalSwitchEX. In2 and SignalSwitchEx.Out are incompatible, cannot route.
In "Big Mixer" for Example I don't have this Problem. and the mixer synchronizes Correct with the BCF2000

Greets Oli.

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:00 am**

Thanks for the feedback!!

We're looking into this issue & the general midi handling. In the meantime, the only solution for you is to only have the midi set up for one side of a stereo pair, thus not sending conflicting midi messages to a stereo pair. Say for example you want channels 1/2 & 3/4 paired (linked) you should only assign midi to one side of each pair ( to channels 1 & 3 in this case)

Working like that is a workaround for the moment until we find a solution.

regards,
Shroomz

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:45 pm**

Shroomz wrote:That's good news voidar !!
If you use the VM-1242 as a summing mixer you'll be using it's best quality. The architecture gives perfectly aligned summing of the 12 channels to the mix & buss stages. If you test it thoroughly you'll notice this. The reason is that as well as all 12 channels having a parallel signal path accross the dsps, the complete mix & buss stages reside on a single dsp, meaning that they must be aligned.

About the midi side of things, I was thinking about assigning the 12 main channels each their own midi channel, but I'm not sure yet if that's the best approach.

regards,
Shroomz

Yes, I have tested it in this regard, and all inputs seem to cancel each other out which is when you hear that neat static noise.
My tests show that feeding an equal amount of positive and negative phased 1KHz sines (De-Vice' Toner) into the mixer, the on-board meter shows -12.9dB; channels with flat EQ, minimum drive and faders at max.

I also use the EQ and drive of course when summing, for some final sculpting, and I would rather automate this than the ASIO-host mixer. I find I need to use my ears more like that and I can thus concentrate on the audio as a whole, which is what a mixer makes you do. Individual plug-ins and windows tend to distract me.

The way I remember it is that the mixer has more than 127 controls/possible assignments, so splitting it to multiple midi channels might be a good idea..

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:32 pm**

Hi voidar, I wouldn't test a device in that manner personally. On Scope I'd recommend sending a 100Hz sine wave into all or whatever channels you're testing (you'll here what's going on better with the lower frequency tone). For testing the phase coherence of particular outputs I'd use the 'phase fix' device for the moment. You can achieve cancellation of less than (better than) -160dB (167dB or thereabouts if I remember right) accross the whole mix & buss stage of this mixer when feeding it combinations of up to 12 x 100 Hz sine wave test tones.

Posted: **Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:50 pm**

btw, I should've said, you would only be using the 'phase fix' device for inverting the phase of the mixer's output signals.

About the midi implementation... we're looking at a couple of options. One possibilty is to have a separate midi channel for each mixer channel (as I mentioned), but that'll require a circuit workaround for link modes (channel pairing). We're also experimenting with the Mackie control modules in the sdk, but that's purely experimental at this stage.

regards,
Shroomz

Posted: **Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:22 am**

I'll try a 100Hz sine then, but you can definitely hear when the mixer is phase-coherent. It's night and day.

"Phase-fix" is a bit in-coherent as the amount samples to shift for phase-inversion varies based on the audio source and sample-rate.

I can always invert the phase in REAPER prior to the ASIO output stage. That is a guaranteed sample-accurate inversion.

I have mostly ran 3rd party stereo mixdowns into the mixer like this. On such dynamic material you will hear this "radio" static noise at 100% cancellation. This non-linear noise is frequency dependant, thus it might not be that apparent on low freq. sources. My guess is it's most active at around 1K.
So I am not saying there is anything wrong, quite the contrary

. This is an emulation of non-linear vintage audio after all.

I like this noise. Most people do

.

Posted: **Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:14 am**

quote: " We're also experimenting with the Mackie control modules in the sdk, but that's purely experimental at this stage." endquote

THIS WOULD BE AMAZING!!! this is one of my "awhh,... please?"-things, mackie control... and in the future, it would be amazing if alot more scope mixers would have mackie control-
you are amazing!

ok.. i used the word amazing an amazingly lot now....

Posted: **Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:06 am**

Dear Shroomz I just had time to audition your great mixer.
The sound is fabulous, and it is different than the VP8 even 0.3 version.
First there is at least 10 db gain loss when using the mixer instead of any other module,mixer, even VP8...
Secondly the link function is great BUT needs to link alsio the tube drive control because when you ahve stereo tracks you need exactly the same tube drive on each channel and when raising the drive of left the right should follow.
Also the return eq's might be better coloured blue and red like the eq channel's section colours as to not think that these are send return knobs...
Despite that these is an awesome looking and sounding device.
thanks !!!
Regards,
Dimitrios

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