Studio monitors?

Post by **garyb** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:53 am

my two standards.
http://www.tubetrap.com/
http://www.auralex.net/ (check out the acoustics 101 section)

if you'd rather do it yourself:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
do it yourself can be more expensive and definitely more work than premade if you want it to look nice as well as work nicely....

DJ Mosley · Post by **DJ Mosley** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:46 am

I guess I'm really old school, but I prefer my old Yamaha NS10's with a Hafler amp. There is a reason for every major studio to have a set of NS10's on the console for final mixdowns. The reason is: THEY SUCK! If you can make your mix sound good on them, it will sound good anywhere. Be careful getting speakers that sound too perfect. Most fancy speakers color the sound and add too much bass. They make everything sound good "in your studio". I am a nightclub DJ. Everything I make I play over a big PA system. I've tried the Mackie's and Events, only to find that they leave my mixes with too much bass in the mix at the club, and don't allow me too really get the mix right. Proper seperation, especially bringing the vocals to the front, is really done best with Yamaha NS10's. Even though they are not made anymore, you can find them on eBay all the time. You will have to pay a slight bit more, but they can last a lifetime (and they will hold their value, and can easily be re-sold if you find they are not what you want).

nprime · Post by **nprime** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:10 am

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with the choice of NS10 and the logic behind their use. The reason every studio has a pair is indeed to "check" their mix on a pair of crappy speakers, but don't be fooled into thinking that people in big studios actually mix on them.

I had a pair in my studio in the eighties and the mixes didn't translate well to other systems at all.

I don't like to be so harsh and argumentative, but I really don't think that in 2004 you should settle for speakers that were designed in the mid eighties. The Yorkvilles are actually pretty darn good speakers for the money.

Spend at least that much money again on room treatment, number one being bass trapping. Don't overdo the absorption of sound though, not more thatn 50% of any wall should be absorptive. Diffusion is your friend, the more of that in the room the better, except between you and the monitors.

Spend the time and money on the room and the speakers will sound great and your mixes will play anywhere.

R

[ This Message was edited by: nprime on 2004-09-18 12:12 ]

AndreD · Post by **AndreD** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:24 am

...and don´t forget to listen professional mixes on your speakes every day...
(no matter WHAT kind of speakers)

[ This Message was edited by: AndreD on 2004-09-18 12:24 ]

nprime · Post by **nprime** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:57 pm

Excellent advice! I always found it useful to listen to a commercial track that had the sound I was after for my own song. That really tunes your ears to know how the frequencies are balanced. Useful while mixing too! Stop and listen to the commercial CD in the middle whenever you get confused, it sets you back on track.

R

[ This Message was edited by: nprime on 2004-09-18 13:58 ]

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:06 pm

On 2004-09-17 17:03, astroman wrote:

I'm very sceptic about the reasoning of the original diss (in that review) and in fact the only thing that has kept me from the Behringers is their close relation to a certain kind of mass-production I don't wanna support.

cheers, Tom

Even for stuff like the BControl which is not in the audio path, I just can't bring myself to buy anything from them for the same reason.

blazesboylan · Post by **blazesboylan** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:22 am

I bought a Behringer cable tester... But that's where it ends!

firubbi · Post by **firubbi** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:25 am

On 2004-09-18 05:46, skatehard wrote:
I prefer my old Yamaha NS10's with a Hafler amp. There is a reason for every major studio to have a set of NS10's on the console for final mixdowns. The reason is: THEY SUCK! If you can make your mix sound good on them, it will sound good anywhere.

i'm on Genelec 1029Active and that sounds really cool. You can try darkstar.
thanks

darkstar · Post by **darkstar** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:39 pm

Hello guys,and thanks for your advices,
I ordered my Alesis m1 active mk2 today,and I expect them in my room for week or two.I hope I made right decision,but from the searches I did,I noticed that everyone says"it is worth that money".I also know that good monitor speakers are in the $1000-2000 range,but that is too much for me right now...so,I downloaded acoustic treatment advices from that web site,and I will try to make my own acoustic treatment...
So,I will post my experience with speakers once I get them.
Thanks again,planetz was always best source of information for me,
Regards

deep2112 · Post by **deep2112** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:56 pm

I have the Alesis M1 active MKII and sound and look good to me. Very happy with them. Must say aim a beginner

On a SFP Home card.

nprime · Post by **nprime** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:14 pm

[ This Message was edited by: nprime on 2004-11-28 16:16 ]

ChampionSound · Post by **ChampionSound** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:13 pm

How do you guys control the volume of active monitors if you are using a software mixer (e.g. stm2448)? Is the only solution a expensive Big Knob for this (instead of moving the master fader with the mouse)? Sorry, I have no experience with this issue yet.

cheers

Post by **hubird** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:49 pm

a (very small) mixer in your (soft) studio is always very handy, in many situations.
F.e. you can connect your masterkeyboard synth directly to it, so you always have instant sound, you can patch audio sources to your studio monitors, all without having to start up your computer.

Another example is, I have the built in soundcard's output of my mac also cabled to a mixer's channel.
This way I can listen to a Cubase song played through Scope, and at the same time play through long lists of samples, from within the preview/load window of sample editor Peak, which is routed via the built in card (
It's very handy then to be able to use the mixer's level pots, for instantly adjusting the volume of each previewed sample to fit the mix.

I use a Mackie Micro Mixer 1202 (the name says it), no faders, just pots, but several good mic inputs.
I think you can get one on ebay for a € 150,-.
A mixer gives you so much comfort and flexibility in your studio, specially for the future.
It's the only hardware I never will sell, in the unevitible software rush I'm also in

just talking, it's completely off topic

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-11-28 19:51 ]

valis · Post by **valis** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:51 pm

Also it is good to use something external (and analog) to control your monitoring volume (and to grab for a mute button for those surprising speaker-damaging moments).

The reason for this is...if you control your volume inside SFP (or anywhere in the digital realm) you're basically bit-reducing your monitor output.

Stige · Post by **Stige** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:38 am

I have to agree with skatehard.
Besides it's my personal opinion, also some clients have said the same. When they have been in 'big' studio with expensive listening, everything sounded so wonderful. Then there was a nasty surprise when putting that new shiny cd into home stereo.
I think it's not the right approach to try and fix it all then with mastering eq. It's good to remember that expensive speakers won't do the mix for you.

If I had expensive speaker set, of course I'd use them. But mainly for some precise tasks like analysing frequencies, phases, enjoying, etc.
I'd still mixdown with my reference speakers, they are dear to me

.

The most important factor with mixing is to know your speakers, what ever they are. Thats my 0.001 cents.

ChampionSound · Post by **ChampionSound** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:45 am

Thanks hubird and valis,

Yeah, my question was a bit off topic, sorry for that.
I'll check that Mackie micromixer on ebay.
I still don't have monitors right now, but I'm planning to buy a set of Mackie HR624's within about 5, 6 months. I'll have to save up first... Now I know a little bit what kind of options there are for controlling the volume.

darkstar · Post by **darkstar** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:46 am

Hello,
I have Alesis for 3 or 4 weeks now.I must say that when they arrived,I was little dissapointed,because I didn't notice big difference between them,and old panasonic hi-fi speakers that I used before them.
But guys....
After 4-5 days....I understood difference between STUDIO MONITORS and HI FI speakers

Yep,they are great for me,but I will not write full review on them right now,I just don't have much experience with them.For now,I can say that mixes I made with them(just demo tracks,1-2 minute)translated good to other speakers.They eat heavy guitars,but once you made BIIIIIG guitar sound on them,you will be amazed when played on home stereo...
Yes,I agree,if you KNOW your speakers,you can make great mixes on any monitors...
Don't expect that they will make mixes for you,no,they won't,they will reveal true sound of your mixes.I have several song that sounded like shit,now they sound warm and clean...
Again,I am new to them,and I can't give you full comment on them.
I have litlle mixer,behringer(I know what most people mean about behringer),and it is great to have volume pot under your fingers...again,friend of mine told me that this way you are loosing in sound quality(soundcard is connected to mixer,and then mix-monitors),he said that it is better to connect monitors directly to sound card.But,I think this makes sense in big studios,when they need every % of good sound.

ChampionSound:You have volume pots on your speakers,so you set volume up to 50-75% on them,and then you set volume output on your mixer to 0,and then sound card output.If you have no clipping&distortion on any output,your monitors will work like charm for many years.Mackie 624 is great choice,I had no money for them right now,but they are great monitors.
Hope it helps.
Regards

[ This Message was edited by: darkstar on 2004-11-29 08:52 ]

onomat · Post by **onomat** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:47 am

Doepfer make cheap controllers which feel a bit cheap but work

http://www.doepfer.de/

and there's the Phat-Boy from Keyfax which I've been using as my main volume control and 4080L reverb desktop knob box for Scope for years to control the level into my KRK V8 powered monitors.

KRK speakers by the way are my personal recommendations to anyone looking for passive (non-powered) or active speakers for any style of music. By the way, the guy who designs them, Keith Klawitter, was the recording/mix engineer for the film 'The Doors' and did all the live recording (yes Val Kilmer was really singing) and mixes with them.

I first heard their little 6 1/2" jobs in use in an orchestral session at the Australian Broadcasting Corp in 1992 and have never looked back. I still use other brands like ADAM (the P22A's have beautiful clear top end great for string section recording but i find the the lows are weak and not particually well defined) and Genelec (un-interesting sounding and not particularly good in cleaning up recordings, fault finding and EQ'ing as they can sound muddy but can translate ok as mixing speakers as they make you mix brighter) when that is all the studio has but always take my own speakers for critical mixes and ALWAYS for mastering. I hear things on them I can never hear on other speakers. You'll hear great placement of panned instruments, every click or bit of noise and reverbs become much more tonaly idetifiable. NIN's downward spiral is a great ear opening record for your first listening tests...always take your own CDs when demoing speakers!!!

The K-Rok passives are awesome. The've 8" speakers, can handle high power and have a tight punchy bottom which puts even the high end mackies to shame(great for drum heavy mixes) and clean highs. I mixed on them for years doing all styles and loved them. Many engineers/musicicans I was working with bought them too...People would come to check their mixes on them, they are that good.

The V8's are another league again with better mid freq reproduction and the built in bi-amping is super quite...real quality this brand. Even the little Rokits are miles better than anything from A.D.A.M, Genelec as far as listening comfort, punch, stereo image and translation to other systems...By good speakers once and don't worry about it again for years. If you've got some more cash lying round, check out the Expose E8/E12 range used by Bob Clearmountain, Peter Gabriel (real world)etc.....By far the most incredible speakers around..
see here...

http://www.krksys.com/

Just my bit

[ This Message was edited by: onomat on 2004-12-01 06:51 ]

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:20 am

I am currently considering getting some new monitors (just got a pay rise & Xmas bonus at the same time!)

From following this thread and checking out various reviews, these two look most likely:

1/
KRK Rokit8s: £379.99 pair (cheap!)

Do you think that the 8s will be a bit too much for a small bedroom recording environment? Might the 6" Rokits suit that space better? (BTW, they really look a lot like my B&Ws with their "signature" yellow cone!)

2/
yorkville ysm1p £???

I've been trying to get some (any!) information on these speakers by contacting the UK distributor, but alas they appear to have succumbed to the dreaded Apathy disease

The email address I have for them is mirepuk@aol.com. Oh my, a real professional email address there!

I've got a feeling that the Yorkvilles might suit my acoustic space a little better but I'm open to all opinions at the moment.

Royston

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:40 am

Royston mate, you owe it to your ears to try anything by PMC, probably the TB-2s would suit you. Here's the SOS review.

i've had a pair of TB-1s for years now (with a not cheap Bryston amp) - they use them at a post production facility i used to work at (which is how i got to hear of them) and never looked back. You can demo tham at various places, but i always used to use Raper & Wayman.

All the best,
Mr A.

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2004-12-10 08:08 ]