Hi All,
Just a quick update here - without having read much of the other postings here, I proceeded ahead with a design incorporating delays for rhythmic looping, etc., and thought this would be a nice addition...then I read postings from 2001 about the 4Dex ensemble and also the looper thread here, well...so, maybe it's not such a great 'new' thing, but it <em>is</em> fun to play with. The RD Drum shell I'm developing currently has 12 channels that can handle sample loops like this, with MIDI Syncable repeats, etc., although I haven't tried all 12 at once yet to see if things stay locked. However, I was also trying something else using the Pattern Delay from CW in each channel (as insert FX), and, although they don't have an external clock provision, I could get a lot of the same things by using those in each channel, without having to include 12 built-in delays. So, I'm still fooling around with the final RD Drum Shell design.
The other thing I'm coming to realise is, there's a ton to be done in getting the more sophisticated drum modules designed (thanks to at0m|c for posting those links to the SOS and McGill sites in the 909 Classic discussion). Fortunately, the RD design will allow for continued development and expansion of the capabilities of these types of things. In fact, you can expect to see a variety of 'RD compatible' modules appear in the future!
So, what to tell you? There's no 'super duper looper' box yet, nor anything you can used to sequence, other than the patterns derived from infinite delay lines (and these do have a problem, in that they use your host computer's RAM). Some refinements still to be done, but I'm leaning towards making it all an 'enhancement package' to my RD series II modules, instead of a separate product, since for several of the modules, you will need access to the RD envelopes, filters, etc. The first release may not be all that thorough or complete, but the good news is, the RD system approach will provide for expansion and updates that should eventually satisfy many of the requests listed in this thread.
cheers,
Drum devices
Looking forward your future drums shell(s).
For exploring / messing ( drums ) loops I'am currently demoing Devine Machine : http://www.devine-machine.com/home.html
Just pouring ideas in ...
For exploring / messing ( drums ) loops I'am currently demoing Devine Machine : http://www.devine-machine.com/home.html
Just pouring ideas in ...
-
marcuspocus
- Posts: 2310
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Canada/France
)
holy sh*t, THAT took some time to get it going 
Trying out of the box, literature free - what's going on there ???
Those dudes rule ! Once the idea enters your mind - it's incredible.
someone wrote a program with an original interface
an interface to support something called workflow (or creativity...)
not cute, no gimmicks, just plain action
tnx a lot for the link, decimator - you just made them sell another copy
[which arrived only 4 hours after the CC had been charged - and it's Sunday evening here... great service]
cheers, Tom
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2004-07-25 15:09 ]</font>
Trying out of the box, literature free - what's going on there ???
Those dudes rule ! Once the idea enters your mind - it's incredible.
someone wrote a program with an original interface
an interface to support something called workflow (or creativity...)
not cute, no gimmicks, just plain action
tnx a lot for the link, decimator - you just made them sell another copy
[which arrived only 4 hours after the CC had been charged - and it's Sunday evening here... great service]
cheers, Tom
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: astroman on 2004-07-25 15:09 ]</font>
indeed, they mentioned something like rewriting from scratch for Mac compatibility.
But they already had planned the most obvious thing missing: midi output of the 'slices', (you know) that table below the waveform where you can assign slices to an instrument - ingenious and SO simple.
It would also solve the request from the thread Audio trigger/peak to midi velocity converter
And of course the slices will be midi-triggerable in the next version.
My Yamaha DX200 calls itself 'Loop-Factory' on startup - NO WAY ! that title belongs to Devine Machine.
Do people buy such sh*t like 'Acid Loops' ?
With DM you can produce a gigabyte per day of quality stuff from any arbitrary 10 minutes recording - whatever it contains
cheers, Tom
But they already had planned the most obvious thing missing: midi output of the 'slices', (you know) that table below the waveform where you can assign slices to an instrument - ingenious and SO simple.
It would also solve the request from the thread Audio trigger/peak to midi velocity converter
And of course the slices will be midi-triggerable in the next version.
My Yamaha DX200 calls itself 'Loop-Factory' on startup - NO WAY ! that title belongs to Devine Machine.
Do people buy such sh*t like 'Acid Loops' ?
With DM you can produce a gigabyte per day of quality stuff from any arbitrary 10 minutes recording - whatever it contains
cheers, Tom
from DevineMachine back to the topic...
it was an a very good idea from Decimator to mention it in this context - we're pretty used to certain styles of operating a device and somehow forget that it may not be the only way.
Examples like this keep our mind open and bring back a fresh view again.
I'm tempted to say the days of the traditional beat-box are over - with an interface like DM's available.
As easy in realtime handling as the old Roland stuff, but with 2 additonal dimensions.
cheers, Tom
it was an a very good idea from Decimator to mention it in this context - we're pretty used to certain styles of operating a device and somehow forget that it may not be the only way.
Examples like this keep our mind open and bring back a fresh view again.
I'm tempted to say the days of the traditional beat-box are over - with an interface like DM's available.
As easy in realtime handling as the old Roland stuff, but with 2 additonal dimensions.
cheers, Tom
well, John, I wouldn't exactly expect the next 808/909 clone from you
You certainly noticed the user interface of DM and that Scope DP obviously lacks that level of control.
I assume this from your comment above and that you (?) once mentioned a Java-like scripting language inside DP for sequencer control
I don't want to be mistaken that DM is kind of a holy grail for drum boxes, but at least their approach to control is new and very effective.
My inner eye already sees NI and the other 'big' guys plagiating it, but that's another story...
Imho the interface to sound is crucial, since we do have very good synth engines, but no smooth access. Aside from it's frequent appearance in live-setups that's the key of the Virus success.
Unfortunately those hardware-hands-on units are pretty expensive in low quantities.
On the other hand a drumbox is much simpler than a keyboard...
cheers, Tom
You certainly noticed the user interface of DM and that Scope DP obviously lacks that level of control.
I assume this from your comment above and that you (?) once mentioned a Java-like scripting language inside DP for sequencer control
I don't want to be mistaken that DM is kind of a holy grail for drum boxes, but at least their approach to control is new and very effective.
My inner eye already sees NI and the other 'big' guys plagiating it, but that's another story...
Imho the interface to sound is crucial, since we do have very good synth engines, but no smooth access. Aside from it's frequent appearance in live-setups that's the key of the Virus success.
Unfortunately those hardware-hands-on units are pretty expensive in low quantities.
On the other hand a drumbox is much simpler than a keyboard...
cheers, Tom
Isn't there any way to implement 2 16-step modules in a way that when the first module finishes playing, the second one starts, and build a device that could do that?
That way, you'd have a 32-steps pattern.
Actually, I was thinking of a device with a certain number of empty slots, like inserts. This device would be a marriage between micromixer and a step sequencer.
The device would allow you to load any synth/sample player in those slots, and by setting the midi channel, let you fire the synths from the pattern.
Another thing that I was thinking of was a function like the micromixer had: the fact of letting you create as many channels/tracks as you need, except for the fact that these channels would only handle MIDI.
That way, the device wouldn’t be so DSP intensive, and could let you choose whatever sound source you want, depending on your DSP resources.
After having edited a couple of patterns, you could go to song mode and play the patterns in whatever order you want, besides the fact that by loading any preset you’d made, the device would simply recall all the instruments you had chosen for preset.
Of course, there should be a window to edit the patterns: each channel should have it’s own pattern window, but only visible if desired, by clicking a button.
Another thing, tough I'm not sure if it's possible: a pattern sequencer for Mod III with the regular size, but with a button that, after being clicked, could let you open a big window to let you edit the pattern more comfortably.
Please, have in mind that I’m not a developer, so I don’t know if any of the things that I described above are possible.
I know that the topic was about a drum box, but I think these ideas could find a way to be implemented in such way.
Martín
That way, you'd have a 32-steps pattern.
Actually, I was thinking of a device with a certain number of empty slots, like inserts. This device would be a marriage between micromixer and a step sequencer.
The device would allow you to load any synth/sample player in those slots, and by setting the midi channel, let you fire the synths from the pattern.
Another thing that I was thinking of was a function like the micromixer had: the fact of letting you create as many channels/tracks as you need, except for the fact that these channels would only handle MIDI.
That way, the device wouldn’t be so DSP intensive, and could let you choose whatever sound source you want, depending on your DSP resources.
After having edited a couple of patterns, you could go to song mode and play the patterns in whatever order you want, besides the fact that by loading any preset you’d made, the device would simply recall all the instruments you had chosen for preset.
Of course, there should be a window to edit the patterns: each channel should have it’s own pattern window, but only visible if desired, by clicking a button.
Another thing, tough I'm not sure if it's possible: a pattern sequencer for Mod III with the regular size, but with a button that, after being clicked, could let you open a big window to let you edit the pattern more comfortably.
Please, have in mind that I’m not a developer, so I don’t know if any of the things that I described above are possible.
I know that the topic was about a drum box, but I think these ideas could find a way to be implemented in such way.
Martín
I actually wish someone would make a really good clone of the 808 and 909. I may end up buying Hui Drums by D-Mute (although I think it might not be any good since I've mentioned it in this room before and noone here seems to use it, which makes me suspicious of it). Hey John, go for it! I'd buy it.
if you browse some other sections of this forum and read what people don't buy, then this is no indication about quality at all.On 2004-08-08 16:38, skatehard wrote:
...I may end up buying Hui Drums by D-Mute (although I think it might not be any good since I've mentioned it in this room before and noone here seems to use it, which makes me suspicious of it)...
I wrote above that I wouldn't expect a 808/909 by John, but that's because I consider him more innovative.
And while normally a precise clone of the famous Roland boxes would have a fair business chance, this is definetely not the case on this platform...
cheers, Tom
well, isn't John THE expert for Sequential Circuit stuff
you're absolutely right, those 'classics' are the big sellers - they do have a name.
And certainly the driving force behind it is more like '... spares me >1k bucks...' than 'I like it's sound...'
But all his other stuff extends his 'roots' pretty much, while building on a great amount of experience.
to name a few: the Ambient synth, RedDwarf, a 'modular for non modularers', Solaris as a big melting pot of synth history, containing all and every aspect of soundgeneration on a few pages.
There has even been a very innovative approach with the PythonPro synth, that John supported.
No big name, no copy of, some thinking required because it wasn't the osc-filter-adsr way, but capable of sounds that would be difficult to achieve elseway. Obviously no big success...
cheers, Tom
you're absolutely right, those 'classics' are the big sellers - they do have a name.
And certainly the driving force behind it is more like '... spares me >1k bucks...' than 'I like it's sound...'
But all his other stuff extends his 'roots' pretty much, while building on a great amount of experience.
to name a few: the Ambient synth, RedDwarf, a 'modular for non modularers', Solaris as a big melting pot of synth history, containing all and every aspect of soundgeneration on a few pages.
There has even been a very innovative approach with the PythonPro synth, that John supported.
No big name, no copy of, some thinking required because it wasn't the osc-filter-adsr way, but capable of sounds that would be difficult to achieve elseway. Obviously no big success...
cheers, Tom
Hi All,
My Web site has a version of the RD Drum 'shell' (not the most current, but you will get the idea). Below that you will find 3 links to additional screen shots, which should help explain the RD Drum a bit more.
There's a shot of the 15 currently working RD Drum modules, as well as a view of the RD Drum surface with each channel's display switched to show the Delay parameters.
As you can see, there is the standard assortment of drum sounds, plus an enhanced Wav Osc+Amp (with Amp Envelope and Pitch Mod slots), and two Custom drum modules, which are completely user-defined (by inserting any RD series II compatible module).
The Modular Gate II template (from the RD series II set) can also be used, allowing for use of Modular modules to create a third 'custom' object.
Each Delay can be sync'ed to MIDI, and each channel has 3 FX inserts and 1 slot for Pan modulation (which also can be sync'ed to MIDI clock).
Did I also mention there will be additional modules from other 3rd parties?
All coming soon...
cheers,
_________________
john bowen
zarg music
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: johnbowen on 2004-09-25 05:00 ]</font>
My Web site has a version of the RD Drum 'shell' (not the most current, but you will get the idea). Below that you will find 3 links to additional screen shots, which should help explain the RD Drum a bit more.
There's a shot of the 15 currently working RD Drum modules, as well as a view of the RD Drum surface with each channel's display switched to show the Delay parameters.
As you can see, there is the standard assortment of drum sounds, plus an enhanced Wav Osc+Amp (with Amp Envelope and Pitch Mod slots), and two Custom drum modules, which are completely user-defined (by inserting any RD series II compatible module).
The Modular Gate II template (from the RD series II set) can also be used, allowing for use of Modular modules to create a third 'custom' object.
Each Delay can be sync'ed to MIDI, and each channel has 3 FX inserts and 1 slot for Pan modulation (which also can be sync'ed to MIDI clock).
Did I also mention there will be additional modules from other 3rd parties?
All coming soon...
cheers,
_________________
john bowen
zarg music
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: johnbowen on 2004-09-25 05:00 ]</font>
Hi again,
Well..........it seems things are taking a bit longer than I had planned. There are some significant changes going on, and from those some new problems. Please be patient, and I'll keep you posted.
(BTW, the screen shots on the Website are no longer current.)
Well..........it seems things are taking a bit longer than I had planned. There are some significant changes going on, and from those some new problems. Please be patient, and I'll keep you posted.
(BTW, the screen shots on the Website are no longer current.)
john bowen
bowen synth design
zarg music
bowen synth design
zarg music
-
marcuspocus
- Posts: 2310
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Canada/France
I went to have a look at RD Drums screenshot, and
I want it!!!
That's the next thing coming in my weapons collection
Do i see correctly that the thing have facilities to make track loops?
[edit]
re-read the entire thread, and i see that the loop is based on delays line... Is it possible to loop a bar, or couple of bar is midi info instead? Would use less ram/dsp i think, and would allow to insert effects after that, delay being one of them. Since there is a metronome there, i could listen to metronome on a separate output and perform live beat construction using midi loop like this.
[/edit]
Anyway, the thing looks very much impressive.
I need it!
Go on John!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2004-09-17 04:50 ]</font>
I want it!!!
That's the next thing coming in my weapons collection
Do i see correctly that the thing have facilities to make track loops?
[edit]
re-read the entire thread, and i see that the loop is based on delays line... Is it possible to loop a bar, or couple of bar is midi info instead? Would use less ram/dsp i think, and would allow to insert effects after that, delay being one of them. Since there is a metronome there, i could listen to metronome on a separate output and perform live beat construction using midi loop like this.
[/edit]
Anyway, the thing looks very much impressive.
I need it!
Go on John!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2004-09-17 04:50 ]</font>