Looper Machine

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:23 am

I need a devices that behave like this :

http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/RC-20/

The Boss RC20 Loop Station

Somebody up to it?

I'm sure it can be a HIT!

I can bet on it

borg · Post by **borg** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:39 am

ableton live???

borg · Post by **borg** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:31 pm

sorry for the rather blunt reply

i'd for sure like something like that in scope, but my guess is, that it would take some pci resources and ram. not CW's forte i reckon. i could be wrong. let's hope i am.
but i think ableton live is just the right tool for this kind of stuff...

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:25 pm

I know ableton live, but i didn't seen to have the same facility doing live loop this way, i mean, while a play guitar, or sax, or bass clarinet with my two hands...

Maybe a foot controller? Well, i guess just by the inner working of ableton that i'll have to map a bunch of pedals to acheive this...

And, well, sorrry, but the thing doesn't need more memory than a sample player, could be a single device, that you can map to 2 foot controller to acheive this pretty easily.

I hate software, the more i play live, the more i hate software. To date, Nuendo is cool to work in the studio.

Fruity is coOl to mock around on a laptop (and alot more also, obviously).

Ableton is cool for a live set with a mouse and a bunch of knob.

But i play LIVE instruments, both my hand are busy, busy alot. I need small devices that perform brillantly on a small task, and they also have to be ergonomic.

Thanks alot anyway for remembering me to ableton, i almost bougth it once, finaly, wasn't exactly what i needed at that time. Well, time change, maybe i could have a second look at it

borg · Post by **borg** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:52 pm

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7511

_________________
andy
 the lunatics are in the hall 

[ This Message was edited by: borg on 2004-06-02 17:56 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:05 pm

Well, after reading the thread on your link, the guy came to the same conclusion as me, and didn't found a solution (not in this thread anyway)

You can control about anything on live using midi controler, but, the specific thing i need doesn't work "hand free". Here's what the guys (and me) is searching (quote from the thread):

"i have been thinking about getting the Behringer, but have any of you used it for live sampling and building live/LIVE sets? i guess you still have to select what track you want to be recording to.. so it can't be all hands free...."

So maybe i can live with not selecting a track, and using a single track, for a single instrument (obviously), but dont you think that ableton live is a bit overkill for a looping effect on a single instruments? Not to talk about the cost of it, and the trouble of having "another" software running in a live gigs, beside sfp?

Nah, i don't think that for me.

Well, again, i should try it again and fool around to see and test the thing i need exactly.

Seriously, you don't want a device doing ONLY that? Perfectly? On DSP? Really real time?

Ok, maybe i'm the only one in the world finaly....

Damn...

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2004-06-02 18:07 ]

borg · Post by **borg** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:32 pm

mmm, okay, i understand your situation. and no, you're not alone

if some smart developer would get it done, sure, that would be awesome!

but 'defend' abelton and the fcb1010 a bit: do you honestly think such a hardware pedal or a scope solution will give you a one hour live set worth of hands free operation? and besides, the fcb can be programmed so that every switch can send out a note message. basically you should be able to assign 127 note numbers in the fcb, and these to recording slots in ableton. if you set up your tracks and their recording inputs in a clever way, you can get veeeeeery far...

a few months ago, i did this special thing with some friends: me on laptop and Live, and a bunch of friends on mic, synths, flutes,... all going straight into the computer, looping away like mad, throwing in vst fx, tweaking the loops,... all without the slightest preparations. i wonder what would be possible if i gave this concept of doing live gigs a closer look.

have you heard of something called 'echoplex'.? i remember having heard this device being good for live looping. do a search on the ableton forum on hardware loop devices, and you'll probably find some interesting user reports.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 1:35 am

Yep, heard about echoplex.

i'm seriously gonna have a closer look at ableton, maybe i'll buy it.

First, the fcb1010, for sure, for 150€ this device look very very coOl for what i need.

Thanks again borg, you're very helpfull

Héhé, still, i wish for a looping device on sfp

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 6:08 am

We've had the Infinilooper Delay (if I remember the name well) that did this, it's only 2.04 compatible or so. But this one is very well possible, the memory can be built out of delay lines. It takes no new atoms like a recorder device, except for setting loop length automatically maybe. But maybe there's a work-around for that, either in using or in developing the device...

Fingers crossed

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:48 am

that's an echoplex (original)

http://www.tonefrenzy.com/2/maestro_echoplex.htm

In the boss above : 5 minutes loops ? mm, that's a lot. + tempo changer is like time strtching ?
There are several "sample and hold" for sfp/scope (infinite looper, celmo's something (i don't remember sorry) and spacef echo (but you need a controller button to play with the input gain as sample/on/off).
But the boss thing is far more sophisticated : loop quantize ????

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2004-06-03 12:05 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 9:47 am

Yep my friend...

I would LOVE TO PLAY a live gig with this

On SFP obviously

voidar · Post by **voidar** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:05 am

I have also been looking for such a device and I guess ableton could get you really far, though it is complex.

You could use any delay in SFP to sample and hold, but it would require using your mouse perhaps. Or I guess you could controll a channel vol (which would controll the input to the delay) with a exp. pedal, and perhaps the delay lenght with another exp. pedal.
This would be a very destructive approach. Changing the delay time would also create some glitches/noise.

Another thing. All SFP delays seem to be restricted to about 5 seconds of repeat time and I doubt you could solve this by chaining delays. Anyway, this is what you have the Modular for

, building strange devices.

I create some guitar ambient loops this way, and it was great fun. Very random.

You could experiment with other SFP delays too like the Maryjane and ganja dub delay. Do a search.

You could also look into the Boomerang which is supposed to be a very simple, powerfull and expensive looping device. As an alternative to the Boss that is.

Do you know this site? http://www.loopersdelight.com/loop.html
Check it out.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:14 pm

Thanks alot voidar, yes, i tried with modular... i can't keep a loop for too loog, i always have to play with the feedback...

Too high it completely freaks out in resonance, too low, it stop, and your right about changing delay times, now, it completely destroy the sounds and crackles like hell.

I also know loopers delight, they have a review of different looping devices , soft or hard, and their conclusion :

the best is Electrix Repeater : discontinued and very expensive (800€ + for second hands devices)

The 2nd best would be Boss RC20, almost on par with some more obscure compagny stuffs.

Ableton? Following some suggestions, i'm actually trying to figure out how i could use it with a foot controller to trigger recording but a face a BUNCH of differents troubles:

A can trigger the recording of one loop to a channel, but after i stop recording, the channel isn't monitored anymore, so i have to create 2 channels one for recording the other to monitor thru it all the times.

Anyway, i'm still trying, and if nobody confirm that they are working, or at least trying to make a similar device, i'll buy the boss rc20 for 389€

I'd rather give this money to a sfp developer...

BTW, why, instead of making 3millons different synths, cwa doesn't make effects like this one? Well, i mean, not necessarily THIS one, but hey, there is alot more effects than a simulation of an old compressor that can be made! No?

Bah....C'mon creamware! Do something original! Do something nobody is trying to copy! A looper device to kill all others looping devices !!!!

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2004-06-04 14:14 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:14 pm

I was thinking about the looping device for sfp, and all trouble related to recording a file (no atoms available) etc...

What if, using a sample playing device, that can READ a file, this file is loaded in memory? Right?

So, maybe it's possible to load a default wav in memory like a sample player, and write captured audio to memory instead of to a file?

I mean, replacing data that is already in memory by newly aquired audio data, moving start and end point to loop into that? This approch should be doable?

For a talented developper?

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:20 pm

Have you tried the little green delay from Celmo? It may be freaky, but it also may do what you sometimes want. I like it.

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:53 pm

Man, i tell you, i'm an expert at delays, sort of

, i tried them all....

A dub delay (or delay that can do feedback) is not what i'm searching.

I know Celmo's Ganja's delay, i also have his Vintage delay, which have a HOLD button from a request i made, and i also use SpaceF Echo delay alot.

It's not the same thing...

Read the manuals from the Boss rc20 loop station, or Electrix Repeater.

You'll understand exactly what i need.

BTW, Celmo, or spaceF, you know what would be REALLY cool on both your delays? A tap tempo button...

Now, with a tap tempo, i can get 'close' to what i need

[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2004-06-06 17:55 ]

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:19 pm

well, i can't do it now, it would take monthes, i'm buzy reading the sts manual,

more instresting things to do.

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2004-06-07 01:50 ]

marcuspocus · Post by **marcuspocus** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:57 pm

Sans rancune j'espère Mehdi?
Tu sais, j'suis un gars prompt pas mal, faut pas s'en faire

spacef · Post by **spacef** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:02 pm

bof.... j'ai dis une connerie et demain est un autre jour... ah planetz au reveil, c'est pas toujours un cadeau

ça te dis d'aller voir "les secrets de diego" en cer-con cette semaine ? y a une annonce sur mao zicmu. tu reserves et t'amene une bouteille, : concept sympa non ?
++

nb english speakers: we're just talking about going to a a gig this week ...

[ This Message was edited by: spacef on 2004-06-06 19:07 ]

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:11 pm

Oh yes, I mixed it up for a few seconds. My first and almost only rack gear was a Washburn digital delay (I bought it on sale in 1991) had a hold button. Hold is great