The purpose and use of this forum

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue May 11, 2004 5:36 pm

Yes, that's it!
Are there any other sources, independent?

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue May 11, 2004 6:18 pm

On 2004-05-11 17:38, doodyrh wrote:
I find the complainers less irritating than the reactionaries who step complacently forward every time to excuse Creamware's lack of progress over the last year or two.

Another purpose of the forum might be to give Creamware a sense of how their customers are feeling.

not shure if I qualify for statement #1, probably I do

but it makes a huge difference if you explain something or if you just agree to anything unconsciously.

most of the 'shouting' complainers are either unable or unwilling to see the difference - and that lack of style is what this thread is about - not about a different opinion or point of view.

statement #2 is really of few relevance because a couple of running wild literature novices are very unlikely to represent the customers of > $1k pro audio gear

actually it's just a storm in a teacup

call charging a fee for a professional service a ripp-off, ok I've been ripped off too (yesterday) by 38 Euros for 2 steaks and beverage, but I know a lot of 'services' with a higher charge...

...and I just learned that the Linux community needed 2(!) years for working drivers for a SBLive LMAO

cheers, Tom

Post by **hubird** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:13 pm

Some posts here during the last days were so badly beyond all frontiers of good manners and intelligence that I would have been glad if John would have kicked off those posters.

Check it out:

THANKS FOR THE TIP BUT MY CAT ATE THE CAPSLOCK SO UNTIL I GET IT REPAIRED
I HAVE TO GO ON LIKE THIS

Hare creamware,Hare creamware
creamware,creamware,Hare Hare
next step for them to get money from us
is to take 10% on our pay directly

After the next insolvency they can found a new company again:
"Creamware ScrewingCustomers"

Creamware, Go To Hell!!!!!

And others.
Notice: I didn't cite posts which just are (firmly) argueing against this or that policy of CWA.
I just have problems with primates who are using PlanetZ as a dustbin, not showing any respect for the solide place PlanetZ has got to be.

Not having any illusion...intelligence and
good manners aren't explainable.

_________________
Let There Be Music!

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-05-11 21:18 ]

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:32 pm

On 2004-05-11 21:13, hubird wrote:
Some posts here during the last days were so badly beyond all frontiers of good manners and intelligence that I would have been glad if John would have kicked off those posters.

Guys, you know, by our history together, that I don't rule planetz with a heavy hand. The community has grown so large that I cannot read every post - I just don't have enough time. So, I really depend on you all to self-moderate, as you have done so well in the past. Only in severe abuse situations have I had to intervene, and ban a user.
(Remember, you can always send me email or private message me if you see abusive behavior).

As for immature posters, ALL CAPS KIDS, venting ranters, trolls, etc, let's just all try to be mature and ignore those that should be ignored.

People that want to post to criticize CWA's policies and behaviors should certainly be allowed to do so. It seems that CWA does occasionally listen to what people are saying here, and sometimes they make decisions based on that feedback. If people are relentlessly negative and self-repeating, I assume the rest of us will just start to ignore them. If they turn into d-x-l's, then they'll get banned.

I doubt creating a separate forum for people to rant in would work, as no one would read it, so ranters would just post in other forums instead.

It's tough seeing the forums get messy, as they have recently. I'm uncertain of the
right path through it...

-John

AlienMachine · Post by **AlienMachine** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:16 pm

On 2004-05-11 19:18, astroman wrote:

...and I just learned that the Linux community needed 2(!) years for working drivers for a SBLive LMAO

cheers, Tom

Well, I was just looking all this coming and going about how good/bad Creamware is, etc, etc. and I have my opinion. However, what I'm quoting, Astroman, is your ironic Linux commentary. I'm a Linux developer myself, among other things, and I assume that you probably know (being smart as it seems you are) that we, the Linux community, don't have support from most of the hardware companies. We were denied information many times from those companies which can lead to the creation of Linux drivers for their products. Many of the drivers we have for Linux have been made possible because of the hard work and long nights of hacking, programming and trial and errors of many people around the world. THAT IS WHY it took 2 years to get drivers for the Live. And all this work is for FREE. I don't need to add more about it.

Even CW took the opportunity to use Open Source in SFP. And if you are curious: 1) The windowing system is Open Source: WxWindows. 2) The compression scheme used for all the scope devices is ZLib.

So, Astro, I really felt offended by your irony. If that was not your intention apologize me for the rant above. However, if it was, because a lack of information, better get informed before speaking.

Cheers,

Alien

Post by **hubird** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:32 pm

@

machine......let's open a new thread for this...

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Tue May 11, 2004 10:05 pm

I believe it to be quite all right to say to the ranters to shut up. I mean, should we let them spoil the forum's vibe and justify it with freedom of speech? We who have contributed to make planetZ what it is, aren't we entitled to wish to keep the constructive atmosphere up ang going? I believe that we are. We all can make the difference between a constructive comment or wish for improvement and a whining, complaining or agressive comment. Voicing what doesn't work can be done harmoniously with a smile on our face!

Doing it with bad feelings just piles up one more problem, it solves nothing and repels the positive people.

I don't know if an action can be taken to help the situation... Put a sticky announcement with suggestions to keep the vibe friendly could anounce the collective desire for good vibes to newcomers. "The friendly poster's guide" or something of the kind... That couldn't make things worst for sure...

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Tue May 11, 2004 10:15 pm

eyesight, your very comment justifies the existence of this post. I'm sorry to be plain, but if you don't know better than whining, then at least spare us your bitterness, for most of the people here only want to share and are ready to help others any time! If you didn't find serenity and poise yet, then maybe an intense call to your own Divine Self could help you out... It did wonders for me!

Be at peace.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed May 12, 2004 12:38 am

well, despite the ease of pointing out specific posters who have made mistakes recently, I think it may be more welcoming to let them know that it's no big deal. Just as long as it doesn't happen on a regular basis. I mean, even in reality, we all have our good days and bad days yeah?

eliam · Post by **eliam** » Wed May 12, 2004 12:41 am

Absolutely, this is no big deal! But still worth noticing, and then forgeting!...

Ashkenazy · Post by **Ashkenazy** » Wed May 12, 2004 1:06 am

O.K. then. Next time I'll use different language:

O, noble Creamware.

It hast just discomforted me the tiniest little bit that a small inconvenience befell me by thy always mighty terrific treatment. Please don't feel insulted by my most humble criticism, but thy current policy hast not quite fallen on fertile ground. I hope thou can perhaps take it into consideration.

Yours faithfully,

Ashkenazy

powerpulsarian · Post by **powerpulsarian** » Wed May 12, 2004 1:11 am

It is my belief that the series of bad vibes lately are a direct result of some of the things Creamware is doing that really are not good overall for users (and will utimately hurt their business).

Bad support, charging for transfers, glitches in their web site, information that is not complete or not clear, an update that requires a huge download but nothing really new, etc. These are things that make users angry and turn away potential buyers. People are upset at the way things are going and I don't blame them.

For an $1k plus investment in gear, I expect better. I would get better from Creamware's competitors and that can't be good for Creamware's future.

I do agree that the lame posts that just rant for the sake of ranting and use offensive language are annoying and stupid, but there are legitimate reasons to complain right now.

The bottom line is that if Creamware were doing a better job and service for users, then no one would have a reason to complain. But unfortunately, Creamware is not doing things the right way in many people's opinions and they really need to know how people feel if they are going to get it right in the future (not just the strong positive Creamware supporters, but the buying public in general).

Maybe this forum is not the right place, but when Creamware does something that people don't like, I don't think it really can be helped. People are going to post their opinion and try to let Creamware know about it. Maybe if Creamware had a feedback ability on their web site, then it wouldn't end up here as much?

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Wed May 12, 2004 2:09 am

The flood of recent rants all comes down to one thing we can't get by: CW had some serious financial problems, and still suffer the consequences of it.

You like it or you don't, but they cannot offer us -for now- the service from before. Things will be a bit tougher for a while, I hope their situation gets better soon. To improve their situation, they need money. Where do you get money? From customers, per definition. And that includes us, selling plugins at 50% rates has driven many of us to buy new ear candy. Also a wave of new customers jumped the CW train, some might have waited till after CW's chapt11, some attracted by hardware price drops.

Also people don't seem to read manuals or readme files. And please, a CW card is not a plug-and-play soundblaster. Study it.

I do realise the critics need a voice, but please don't blame it on us or CW. Of course there's problems, troubleshooting it is more constructive than shouting how bad it sucks. Guess which one gets you further.

I don't mind people saying what they think about the situation, not at all. But when such posts reveal that the author has no idea whatsoever happened with CW last year, they're rants. How can one judge if one doesn't know the situation @ CW's. Some understanding would be appreciated. I'm tired of explaining it over and over, only to see that there's another bunch who didn't understand.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed May 12, 2004 2:56 am

Maybe if Creamware had a feedback ability on their web site, then it wouldn't end up here as much?

Not to mean any offence, but many users seem to forget that PlanetZ is a private run forum. Sure, CW people come by some time, but they're not obligated in any way to do so. Placing discontent on this board isn't really the most effective way of getting in contact with CW I think.

The other point is that making a statement sound very sour, and making CW look really bad isn't a very effective way of getting CW's attention and cooperation either. If you wanted someone to get you a glass of water, you wouldn't start ranting or start listing up discontentment as to why you need a glass of water. You'd be kind to the person, and try to motivate the person to help you in a positive way.

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Wed May 12, 2004 3:46 am

My opinion - let them rant and ignore the rants - don't post replies in any kind. If people see they are ignored they will surrender. If somebody comes to a house and say bad things or is sowing bad vibes then you don't invite him any more.

John, is it possible to move a thread from one forum to another without that massage "moved"? I mean it would be nice if there wouldn' be any sign of a thread existence in a forum: I mean the announcements forum. If a thread doesn't fit there and especially if it's rant then there is no point of informing people it was moved.

_________________
Sir Sam Plaire Scopernicus

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2004-05-12 07:00 ]

GuruDooDoo · Post by **GuruDooDoo** » Wed May 12, 2004 4:48 am

Hare creamware

I was joking
how could you answer to such foolish threads?
I go back to heaven
bye

hare creamware

[ This Message was edited by: GuruDooDoo on 2004-05-12 06:10 ]

[ This Message was edited by: GuruDooDoo on 2004-05-12 07:56 ]

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Wed May 12, 2004 4:59 am

hmm, I seem to be coming back here alot..

moving posts like nazis moved poeple in from one camp to another

we've been through a political mess before. Try not to bring in ethnicity or political problems under the spot. Last time we had a political mess, it turned out really ugly.

My view on this is that nothing extreme needs to happen if people just learn to govern themselves a bit more wisely. Things won't get better in a snap, but it will. In the meanwhile tho, let's be forgiving and understanding.

GuruDooDoo · Post by **GuruDooDoo** » Wed May 12, 2004 5:06 am

Hare creamware

I was joking
how could you answer to such foolish threads?
I go back to heaven
bye

hare creamware

[ This Message was edited by: GuruDooDoo on 2004-05-12 07:57 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed May 12, 2004 5:22 am

On 2004-05-11 22:16, AlienMachine wrote:
... However, what I'm quoting, Astroman, is your ironic Linux commentary. ...

well, that comment was placed as a response to someone complaining about 'nothing' happening on (former) SFP developement for years.
The SBLive is extremely wide spread and well-hacked (I had the Asio drivers myself once) and certainly not as complex as a Scope card.

Still it took it's time, and in fact I regret the LMAO statement (in no way directed toward Linux developers), which could be misinterpreted - sorry.
Even if I occasionally do few needle sticks in the Linux direction I do of course respect the work of any developer.

cheers, Tom

siberiansun · Post by **siberiansun** » Wed May 12, 2004 5:33 am

On 2004-05-12 06:06, GuruDooDoo wrote:
Hare creamware

he brother kensy just read samplaire's post he ask mister coopy to move posts he doesn't like without informing anybody like cops do sometimes
it sounds extreme but I like thie idea and maybe we can gegin with samplaire's thread

hare creamware

the question here is:
were you a dumb annoying guy already before you registered to this forum?

did you wake up one morning thinking:
"hey, i'm a small annoying person who want to be heard, maybe i ought to register my annoying ass to a forum!"

here's a four letter word for you: m I R C