Creamware is considering charging for key transferring

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue May 11, 2004 11:42 am

All it will discourage is people selling their pluggins.

powerpulsarian · Post by **powerpulsarian** » Tue May 11, 2004 12:00 pm

As I already stated, I believe it will also discourage people buying new plugins from Creamware if they know going in they will never be able to sell them and recoup some of their money (in case they don't end up using them as much as they thought they would).

You can do this with any piece of hardware and most software (sell it if you don't end up using it and make a decent amount of your money back). Creamware is excluding their products from this and I believe it will hurt their sales.

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue May 11, 2004 2:06 pm

I totally take back my post, misread the whole thing. sorry about bitching

On 2004-05-11 12:32, Immanuel wrote:
On 2004-05-11 12:06, piddi wrote:

This fee is only a one-off thing for the occasion that you'd need to sell a plugin. One here, one there. It isn't like you have to pay weekly fees to use your cards, is it?

Correct. But what if you have a pulsar II, then u buy a Pulsar I with maybe 5 extra plugins, and want to register them to the Pulsar II for the convinience?

thats another 170 euro for you, not much less than u pay for the used pulsar I.

Piddi - please discuss the actual situation. there is a transfer everything you want from one card fee, wich is 55€. 170€ is just making it look worse, than it is.

Alphawave · Post by **Alphawave** » Tue May 11, 2004 2:35 pm

Tough move Creamware.

But to be honest the 1-3 months of waiting time is worse than this price of 35/55 Euro.

Maybe one or two of you complainers should go and get a job instead.

Post by **Guest** » Tue May 11, 2004 3:16 pm

There got to be a good reason for this. And I hope CWA explain their reasoning for the high cost.

I heard from their support that some even tried to sell parts of the basic package like the sts2000P, and STM mixers.

it is time consuming for them and since they allowed this they are floaded with requests.

I guess it was abused somehow and now they want to make sure they cover the down time to do this.

At least they are not saying they abolish it.

I was hoping they would have given a grace period (1 or 2 weeks) before applying the charges.

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Tue May 11, 2004 4:09 pm

Well,

Short and sweet, " It takes money to make money " simply said... Big woop, 35 Euro's for a single and 55 for a multi, this is far from criminal guys, annoying? yup, outrageous as some have claimed? far from it.

This has always been a pricey platform, and CW has lowered its prices in half plus to 50% one time, which MANY people abused which saw no action taken, think of how many sales CWA possibly has lost or halved over the coarse of time. Hell how about the guy who Buys say mini max at 50% then uses his additional 50% and buys 2 copies, then keeps one for himself and ebays the other 1-2-3 copies he bought on ebay, thus making him a whole lot of cash.

No one seems to worry much about that.

What ever, I dont swap plugs that often, it wont kill the market, it just lowers the value 50% of the transfer fee.

Again think about how much possible abuse free transfers could involve in these times.

Cheers!

Post by **Guest** » Tue May 11, 2004 4:55 pm

well put basic

remixme · Post by **remixme** » Tue May 11, 2004 6:19 pm

Oh give me a break, don't be so naive the 50% deal was all about making money, I don't see it as a gift as they still made money which they otherwise would not have made, regardless of the error.

I dunno, maybe this support charge is not such a big deal. But I can't think that if it was any other big company like Microsoft doing this, there would be an uproar. Not forgetting all fuss about TurboTax (Different situation I know but there is an analogy in over restrictive copy
protection.)

Lastly to all those people who think that 35 euro is not a lot of money, tell that to people who are starving in the world. Jeez...

I understand we have to pay for support, but the correct way to do things, would be to have an automated system for transfers, and use the time saved to making more plugins for us to buy.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue May 11, 2004 6:36 pm

On 2004-05-11 19:19, remixme wrote:
...But I can't think that if it was any other big company like Microsoft doing this, there would be an uproar. ...

oouuuuch, you're not informed about their charges for telephone support

Available in packs of 5 calls for $200 prepaid, or something like that...

noone complains - it's widely accepted as a tool to regulate staff count for such questions. And of course to milk the cash cow from the rest, who let their employer pay the fee

How long do you want the list of service numbers charging more than 120 Euro/h for dubious responses by call center agents - not qualified technicians ?
It's not appreciated, but not complained either.

cheers, Tom

Post by **hubird** » Tue May 11, 2004 7:04 pm

well...my conclusion after all, having read all contributions (agree Basic), is that CWA's re-registering charging move isn't unfair at all, specially after they've lowered the prices.
A lot of dust and wind here, for a few bucks considering you won't sell plugs so often and will share it with someone else

After all: if I sell my car, why would the cardealer have to pay my paper ad?
Time to go back to work again

_________________
Let There Be Music!

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-05-12 02:38 ]

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Tue May 11, 2004 7:21 pm

On 2004-05-11 20:04, hubird wrote:
...After all: if I sell my car, ...

noone questioned the regular fee of re-registering used cars yet

Post by **hubird** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:23 pm

noone?

edit: ehh...I missed the humor and your point Astro

in fact you're right, the difference between car and card is a 'd', in both cases reregistering is charged now

cheerz

[ This Message was edited by: hubird on 2004-05-12 06:06 ]

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:41 pm

On 2004-05-11 19:19, remixme wrote:

Lastly to all those people who think that 35 euro is not a lot of money, tell that to people who are starving in the world. Jeez...

Not to go back and forth with you on this one, since we obviously can agree we disagree, but.. We are not being adult and realistic about this, comparing 35 EUR to starving people of the world is nonsensicle, how many of those starving people are using a DAW and a CWA system to make tracks? I venture a guess that would be roughly zero hehe.

If this is your system you use a means for an income, or even a side income, then 35 EUR is the cost of buisiness, if your a hobby enthusiast who uses this system as a means to burn tracks and process the like, then you should be well versed by now of the costs involved with maintaining a professional workstation for music composition.

But seriously, a more commical way to look at this would be, pack a lunch 1 time a week for work/school for a month and that should more than cover the 35 EUR's, think about how much money your CWA system saves you, all those long nights could be spent going out to a bar and easilly spending 35 EUR.

Just an opinion is all..

Cheers!

powerpulsarian · Post by **powerpulsarian** » Wed May 12, 2004 12:46 am

It's nice to be supportive of Creamware where we can, but to support this move is just redicolous in my mind. I cannot believe that it costs Creamware that much to transfer a plugin, which means they are after profits for doing the work. That's not fair to users IMO (it's bad service).

Are there any music equipment companies charging for support these days? I don't know of any, and Creamware doing this will give them a bad name in the market. Most companies try to offer great support to distinguish themselves in the very competitive market. Creamware is doing the opposite, which cannot be good for them in the long term.

Most people on this forum are very inthusiastic and very supportive of Creamware, which is great. But that just isn't how the majority of people in the market for this type of gear (potential buyers) are going to see it. They WILL think twice about putting their money in Creamware gear if they know that the potential to resell later and recoup a good portion of their investment (which they could do with any other music gear) is not very likely if they invest in Creamware plugins.

I support a better, more-efficient and user-friendly copy-protection system from Creamware, not a charge for a system they put in place that has now caused them an adminstrative burden (passing their burden on to users without any regard).

A music software company would never get away with this (and they shouldn't), and Creamware will definitely have a bad mark against them for it.

Ashkenazy · Post by **Ashkenazy** » Wed May 12, 2004 1:33 am

How many people actually have a creditcard? I asked creamware to pay by bank transfer, but I didn't get any reaction on that!

Are we the costumers of Creamware, or is Creamware the Costumer of us?

[ This Message was edited by: Ashkenazy on 2004-05-12 02:35 ]

terrence · Post by **terrence** » Wed May 12, 2004 1:50 am

I support a better, more-efficient and user-friendly copy-protection system from Creamware, not a charge for a system they put in place that has now caused them an adminstrative burden (passing their burden on to users without any regard).

Amen.

If the cost of this protection is higher then the profit they make out of it, they need to reconsider their protection. If the protection gives them enough profit in sales, then there must be no problem supporting it.

Just my 0,02€

[ This Message was edited by: terrence on 2004-05-12 03:03 ]

samplaire · Post by **samplaire** » Wed May 12, 2004 2:46 am

I mean, a processing fee of something like 5 euros would be okay. but 35? It's still not a serious amount, but I can't say it's "don't need to think about it too much" type of cheapness either.

In Poland it is a 1/5 of the lowest income available by law. Netto for a month! And it's about 50% people in such situation; or even more

Probably they decided to do that because of many people changing the reg keys from one card to another very frequently and without any considerations. I mean they did it to start people considering every move they make.
_________________
Sir Sam Plaire Scopernicus

[ This Message was edited by: samplaire on 2004-05-12 03:51 ]

Post by **hubird** » Wed May 12, 2004 5:36 am

ok that's right, it can be a big charge depending on where you live

Like Samplaire and others said already, things probably got out of hand, selling plugs has got a sport, it got 'big bussiness', hehe

We were smart, now it's CWA's turn to get smart.
That's why the charge is relative high, except capturing the costs it should make excessive trading of plugs less attractive.
I can understand that, tho I wish everyone to have it all.
€35,- in holland is about 3,5% of a netto monthly minimum income, roughly, I guess.
20% IS a different thing, that's true.
Yet and still I keep saying that the charge can be devided by 2, I don't think ebaying prices will be influenced that much by it.

Wish everyone the cheapest and the best

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Wed May 12, 2004 6:13 am

On 2004-05-12 02:33, Ashkenazy wrote:
...I asked creamware to pay by bank transfer, but I didn't get any reaction on that! ...

I once asked the same question by phone and was told that the shop was actually run by a different company as a service for CW - and it had something to do with credit card contracts.
Sorry that my mem doesn't serve me better on this case.

remixme · Post by **remixme** » Wed May 12, 2004 6:17 am

I love a good discussion... Lots of random thoughts here, hope I'm coherent in some manner...

I support a better, more-efficient and user-friendly copy-protection system from Creamware, not a charge for a system they put in place that has now caused them an adminstrative burden (passing their burden on to users without any regard).

Couldn't agree more.

My problem is with the way they chosen to do to charge for support.

Yes Microsoft does charge a ton of money for support, to use the analogy;

Computer=creamware cards and OS=plugins

you are not charged everytime you transfer your XP install to another computer, or when you upgrade your computer(Apart from the software cost).
I don't have to pay Microsoft when I give my copy of XP to a friend because I have linux installed instead.

(The above is just an example, a bit of a bad one because you have to pay them for lot of other things! Before you say it!)

I'm sorry I went OT with the starving children comment, yes it is small price to pay compared with the cost of running a DAW, and is a legitimate business expense.
Although some would say that this charge is a lot in comparison with the cost of the plugins, and that because of it you never really have a feeling of ownership of the plugin you have bought.

@Basic Pitch
I also realise that it was not said that 35 euro is nothing, I just wanted to point out that it is valuable to those who don't have it. I don't mean me particularly, just wanted to put it into context.
Somewhere between starving kids and expensive DAWS it's there. Like you said, not criminal but annoying eh?

Call me cynical but it seems to me that they thought of a way to hit everyone with a support charge. Regardless of how much support they use. We all have to pay for the people who abuse the key transfer system, by trying to sell basic packages etc.

But then again this happens so much in western society today that this is effectively a non issue.

Guess I countered my own point there, I suppose I had better go sit on a fence somewhere.

We have already established that we don't mind paying support to creamware, however I think the point that we agree on, is that unless creamware prove otherwise; there are better, fairer methods of charging for support.

It would be nice to have some Creamware comment on this topic in general.