The purpose and use of this forum

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Tue May 11, 2004 11:30 am

I find, that this forum is taking a sad turn. During this year, more and more new people have registered only to write rant posts about CWA - nothing else. They don't help others in any way. They don't apear to have any problems, wich they need solved - and if they do, they often use the oportunity to tell the world, how evil CWA is. When people sign in here, they sign a contract, wich says, that they will not post hatefull and harassing posts. Some don't seem to care much for this.

I have full respect for the fact, that John has 100% right to decide the purpose of this forum. Still, I would like to see, what you other users think - not least the "old" guys, who have helped so much making PlanetZ what it is (was?).

To me, the logical purpose of this forum would be:

1) to exchange knowledge about the platform
2) to help eachother with our DAW related problems.
3) to share some good vibes (the off-topic section came in long time after the forum was created, but it IMHO has an important role in making this site a nice place) - and maybe to get personal in a positive way - like Nestor's and Ken's wedding announcements and Counterpart's "delading his shoulders" after watching a car acident.

I realy do not see the purpose of creating big ranting political discussions about CWA's way of doing bussiness. CWA is not here. PlanetZ is in no way affiliated with CWA. I can see one purpose for building up suchs discussions - and that is to put CWA in a bad light (for whatever destructive reason) and turn their userbase against them. Arguments about making them work harder/better by stressing them and uniting against them are just too far off. People do NOT function that way. Decades of psychological research has proved that to be wrong several times.

Personally I would definitely not mind, if such threads/posts where prohibitted in this forum. What good are they <-> What bad are they? Optimally, I would like them to be aloved, but I think it is going to far at the moment. And I would rather see some restrictions, than I would like to see PlanetZ become just another ranters paradice.

I say, let PlanetZ become a place for constructive thinking again - not a place for aggressively discussing pro<->con CWA's bussiness policy.

Let me hear your voice.

Immanuel

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue May 11, 2004 11:38 am

I agree, but some need to vent their frustrations and prefer to do it harmlessly in a forum than yelling at their kids or wifes.
I think we should all try to put togheter a FAQ page that will guide a newbee through the installation and all quirqs of CW cards. That will probably avoid a lot negative postings.

Post by **Guest** » Tue May 11, 2004 11:53 am

Very well said Immanuel,
Bingo, people should vent of course. But if you just join the Z to vent and start your first few posts with telling the rest of us how F..ed up creamware is. then you here for one reason and that is to create a bad vibe and make this forum like other nonsense place.

I beleive there should be rules to vent. I mean look at this http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... orum=10&60

over 60 post and the vast majority have less than 20 posts and some 10 so they came here just to create bad vibes.

I completely disagree with the amount being charged for plugins. It should be less in my openion. Also think that CWA should have given its users a grace period. 2 weeks and after that either abolish it or make users pay.

But the fact is like Immanual said it is John's forum. But I come here 2-3 times daily to check and see new posts and the worst is have to go through 60 nonsense posts.

Maybe there should be a whole section for Venting/name calling. Which will allow the rest of us avoid going there and some of us who feed on this to go there.

truly I see great posts here and they all must be archived in a way to make it easy to browse. but it is hard to go throu tons of nonesense to get to the answer some look for.

hope I don't offend anyone. But we got to stay cool and contructive. After all we are all here to learn and better our musical knowledge.

[ This Message was edited by: antar on 2004-05-11 12:54 ]

Ashkenazy · Post by **Ashkenazy** » Tue May 11, 2004 12:03 pm

When you experience negative things with Creamware, which happens a lot of times to me, then there's no reason to post positive things!

powerpulsarian · Post by **powerpulsarian** » Tue May 11, 2004 12:08 pm

I think there is nothing wrong with people voicing their opinion about bad choices Creamware makes here. This is really a forum for everything - even very off topic subject (in the "Off Topic" section).

I do think that they shouldn't be placed in the announcement section (very wrong place for it). Maybe there needs to be a discusion subject that is specifically geared toward this (e.g., "Tell Creamware what you think" - positive or negative).

The great thing about a forum, is you can chose to ignore a post if you don't think it is of any use or concern for you. If you don't like the negative, don't participate (and don't feed the fire).

I just don't think it is a good idea to start limiting what people post or talk about. As long as it is related to Creamware and their products, it should be allowed. It would be nice if everything was positive and helpful, but that isn't reality.

Let there be freedom in this forum and not censorship just because it is negative.

rodos1979 · Post by **rodos1979** » Tue May 11, 2004 12:08 pm

I dont think that this is truly a topic for discussion, I mean a real problem.

It's true that the past few months many new users signed up in here just to make noise about "how bad is CW" and to inflamate our balls.

Just ignore them... That is what I do... There is a Greek proverb that says:
"whoever gets mixed with bran, he gets eaten by the chickens". I hope you get it.

P.S. This doesnt mean that you have to ignore anyone who is posting a negative comment, ofcourse!!! Just people that cannot hold and do not deserve a discussion

[ This Message was edited by: rodos1979 on 2004-05-11 13:11 ]

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Tue May 11, 2004 12:16 pm

i'm certainly not for censorship and i don't mind if someone has a different opinion to me, however sifting through a thread just to find out interesting facts like someone's finger smell's of cat shit is becoming somewhat tedious.

A modicum of maturity from certain posters is all that's needed. There are enough trolls, name callers and flame wars on other forums if you like that sort of thing.

[ This Message was edited by: Mr Arkadin on 2004-05-11 13:23 ]

Post by **Guest** » Tue May 11, 2004 12:59 pm

Hi,

I don't think the question of being negative in your post is the question. However couse you have all the rights to vent off. But to use foul language in several post and make absolutely no real argument kind of defeat the purpose of this forum. We discussed before why we come here and notthere...
We are not looking for censorship. But we are asking to minimize clutter. Yes there should be a bitiching section. this will give me the choice to go or not to go there. But to use announcement or general discussions to vent and find all that nonsense kind of make this forum not so different from the ones we avoid.

We only asking for either a new section where you can vent + ve or - ve. it is up to the user . But most don't want to see that part of every section on this forum. and cetainly don't want to read about Sh*t on someone's fingers. Most of us here are over 10 years old I hope. so some accountibility on the our part that is all.
It is up to us (or to John) to make this a good forum or simply a forum when others invade it with nonsese discussion.

Post by **garyb** » Tue May 11, 2004 1:33 pm

we've been through this with dxl b4. this is not a democracy here. immanuel posted the reason for this forum to exist and he was correct. it's not about "censorship", it's about use and abuse.

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Tue May 11, 2004 1:46 pm

I hope there is not some strange meaning to the word "delading". What I meant was, When Counterparts was feeling bad about having seen an acident up close, and he had the oportunity to express it here to "vent" in a positive way.

kensuguro · Post by **kensuguro** » Tue May 11, 2004 2:18 pm

Well, having been on board for quite a long time... seeing a bunch of people come on, and off board.. What I respect alot about the Z community (er, the part that's mature) is that when things seem to get out of hand, we huddle and think about it. We think about how we all want Z to be like, what we want it not to become. I was thinking it's about time we had one of those talks, and I'm glad so many have already posted their views.

I've expressed this in several other places recently, but I certainly find the constant bashing of CWA quite annoying. It's okay for the first few threads. I mean face it, some things aren't going as well as they should. But after the 7th, 8th thread concerning the same matter, it becomes repetitious and pointless. To make matters worse, they're now pretty much spread all over the place in different magnitudes. Again, it's okay to say you're unhappy about certain bugs or CWA's way of handling things.

But is that where Planetarians stop? I don't think so. We haven't before, and I hope the attitude that some of older folks (and the people before us) created carries on to the new wave of Planetarians. Venting and talking crap about a product or company is the easy part. But I believe Planetarians can use it as an oppertunity to look for new solutions, innovations, sharing of ideas, and pretty much anything else that leads to an even more creative crowd.

It's good to let out some air... but remember that you're amongst a group of friends. Many users have stuck around for a long time, because that is the sort of place Z is. We're all just friends. Some users mistake us as an entity represented by a bunch of letters. Well, no. When was the last time you saw a board for music gear with episodes of how you felt after your dad died, followed with some of the sweetest comments? Or a thread discussing the theology of music itself, with some of the wisest, thoughtfully written, moving view about what music meant to the writer? Z is full of humanity.

PlanetZ is a strange place where for some strange reason, people from different ethnical and musical backgrounds can coexist. Not only do we coexist, but we're actually being inspired from each other in very good ways. I for one, have been introduced to so many ways to appreciate so many different kinds of music. Sometimes our opinions clash... but again, that is not the end. We can see our differences, and learn from that. It is just another creative card we can use when the creative situation calls for it. PlanetZ is full of such things.

So no, censorship sucks. Having monarchist control of forum content sucks. But PlanetZ never needed these things unless in exrtreme situations. It's a free place to be. Express your opinions, thoughts, and build on each other's creativity. Be wise, be modest.

I hope Z returns its original state, and that the situation we have now is a passing wave. It's probably really easy. The bad vibes just have to pass.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue May 11, 2004 2:32 pm

Awesome post kensuguro, very well put!

eyesight · Post by **eyesight** » Tue May 11, 2004 2:33 pm

[ This Message was edited by: eyesight on 2004-05-12 00:24 ]

Post by **Guest** » Tue May 11, 2004 3:30 pm

Well I like to wish you the best because you really showed us that you are something.

[ This Message was edited by: antar on 2004-05-11 16:31 ]

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Tue May 11, 2004 4:09 pm

I agree with Ken.

Immanuel, I know you are well intended in starting this thread but it amounts to telling people to shut up. I find it painful to read the rants too and I think you have seen some of my replies to them.

The main problem is that most of the people who complain expect everything to be "plug and play" and don't bother to read instructions on CWA's website. I spoke to Ali in Canada and he confirms this fact.

BingoTheClowno · Post by **BingoTheClowno** » Tue May 11, 2004 4:12 pm

This is a little off topic but does anyone know or is there a page that describes CW history from its conception till today?
How the concept was born, who designed the boards etc.

doodyrh · Post by **doodyrh** » Tue May 11, 2004 4:38 pm

I find the complainers less irritating than the reactionaries who step complacently forward every time to excuse Creamware's lack of progress over the last year or two.

Another purpose of the forum might be to give Creamware a sense of how their customers are feeling.

Post by **Guest** » Tue May 11, 2004 4:58 pm

Bingo,
on the old page during their 10-year anniversary they had under news something like that, I am not sure if they will apply this on the new CWA.

Leper · Post by **Leper** » Tue May 11, 2004 5:17 pm

I don't see anything wrong with "negative" posts. If I don't want to read a negative post, I don't click on it -- that's that!

I usually find that the best way to create 'good vibe' in a forum is to help out, show your initiative

[ This Message was edited by: Leper on 2004-05-11 18:19 ]

Post by **Guest** » Tue May 11, 2004 5:17 pm

Hey bingo, here it is . I found it on their old site. But if I copy the link it won't take you to it.

The CreamWare Story

How it all began and what it's become.
In 1992, CreamWare GmbH was founded by Frank Hund, a passionate electric bass player and at that time also a computer science student. His ambition was to create an affordable tool that would allow musicians to digitally record and edit music on a home computer. To deal with the problem of how to effectively, efficiently and above all economically store and manipulate such "huge" quantities of data - remember, this was the time when 386 CPUs with 40 MB hard disks were commonplace - an innovative approach was chosen: namely, the use of inexpensive DAT tapes as the storage medium.

Frank and three of his fellow students - who, by the way, still constitute the core of the CreamWare development department - developed tripleDAT, a solution which combined an audio card for the PC with appropriate recording software. Data storage was handled by centrally-controlled DAT recorders, simultaneously satisfying the requirement for professional-quality audio converters, which were not available within a PC at that time.

Contrary to all expectations, it was not the data storage system - an impressive performer indeed, packing 2 GB onto a standard audio DAT costing only a handful of dollars - but rather the accompanying software tools for music editing which became the financial basis of the company. Prior to this point, such professional quality was available only on the Macintosh platform - at significantly higher price points. Within the nine months following its first presentation at CeBit 1993, CreamWare sold 800 tripleDAT systems - an enormous success for the young company which provided the impetus for continuing expansion.

During the next few years, the product line was expanded, sales increased steadily and the number of employees grew accordingly. In 1995, CreamWare became the first company in the world to introduce effects calculated on the PC in real-time. This is of course standard nowadays, but at the time it represented a quantum leap for computer-based music production. With tripleDAT v2 and MasterPort, with the effect plug-ins osiris and Firewalkers and finally with TDAT16 and the external converter units A16 and A8, CreamWare further solidified its standing as one of the most innovative companies in this market.

In parallel with the ongoing effort in the field of music production systems, the product line of the company's second main division, the broadcast division, was continuously extended and developed. At the 1996 Summer Olympic Games in Atlanta, Georgia, CreamWare products were employed to provide the complete audio installation for on-location coverage by the nationwide German broadcaster ARD - a breakthrough achievement which convincingly demonstrated that CreamWare's existing products were fully capable of professionally addressing the needs of broadcast users in a networked environment. The projects which followed on the heels of this one showed that CreamWare products were able to handle even the most complex tasks in the broadcast area.

In 1998 CreamWare achieved another milestone. At the Frankfurt Musikmesse, SCOPE was unveiled - the first DSP-based platform for synthesis, sampling, mixing, effects processing, recording and signal routing. For the first time ever, virtually all aspects of music production were brought together within a single powerful system which could be integrated effortlessly into a Windows PC or Macintosh computer. The professional virtual studio was now practically within reach.

With the release of Pulsar in December of 1998 it became a reality. Based on CreamWare's SCOPE technology (which was also employed in the development of numerous additional products later on), Pulsar changed the way in which music is produced in thousands of project- and recording-studios. Never before could a single system function as synthesizer collection, sampler, effects rack, mixer and multi-I/O solution all at the same time. Not many people had even dared to dream of the possibilities which were afforded by the combination of massive DSP power and cutting-edge real-time software.

Pulsar became a great success. Within just a few months after its initial release, more than 10,000 units were installed world-wide. Now, after countless improvements and additions to the Pulsar software, CreamWare has introduced Pulsar II - the successor to Pulsar, representing the logical and uncompromising further development of the proven, successful Pulsar concept.

Today, there is a broad line of products based on SCOPE technology - the spectrum encompasses custom-tailored systems for sampling (PowerSampler) and modular synthesis (Elektra), the multi-I/O solution Luna II and the high-end virtual studio SCOPE /SP.

But CreamWare's SCOPE technology has also found adherents outside the realm of music production. CreamWare is also engaged in cooperative projects with a variety of OEM partners involved in other fields, who have chosen SCOPE to help boost their own innovative potential and to achieve a competitive advantage. One example is Brähler ICS, the leader in conference systems technology within Germany and Europe, with 30% of the world market share in that area as well. Brähler has decided to base its new generation of conferencing and simultaneous interpretation systems on SCOPE technology.

Today, CreamWare is an international company with subsidiaries and distribution partners all over the world. The company has 60 employees at company headquarters in Siegburg, in Vancouver and at the CreamWare Radio Telescope Facility near Bad Münstereifel.

One may very well wonder just what CreamWare will pull out of its hat next. Only one thing is certain: the CreamWare story will continue to be exciting!