Creamware is considering charging for key transferring

eyesight · Post by **eyesight** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:10 am

[ This Message was edited by: eyesight on 2004-05-12 00:52 ]

GuruDooDoo · Post by **GuruDooDoo** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:14 am

Hare creamware

I was joking
how could you answer to such foolish threads?
I go back to heaven
bye
Hare creamware

[ This Message was edited by: GuruDooDoo on 2004-05-11 09:15 ]

[ This Message was edited by: GuruDooDoo on 2004-05-12 08:03 ]

GuruDooDoo · Post by **GuruDooDoo** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:19 am

Hare creamware

I was joking
how could you answer to such foolish threads?
I go back to heaven
bye

Hare creamware

[ This Message was edited by: GuruDooDoo on 2004-05-12 08:04 ]

cream · Post by **cream** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:29 am

I'v got a question does it take enough time to charge 35 more each time a guy at creamware goes to the W.C? or is it in the price of the cards
can some one tell me how many people in creamware compagny so I can calculate how much I ow them

I was thinking about the same thing: Big business for creamware.I hope they can do some great things with that money..

terrence · Post by **terrence** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:31 am

I totally agree with Immanuel on this.
Every company has to check for themselfs if the copyprotection they use will be profitable in the end or not. If they want this kind of heavy protection, they must be able to support it. If they cant, they shouldnt use it.

Come on, a fee is kewl with me, but 35 is insane!

Frank/Creamware, copyprotection is YOUR problem, dont make it OURS! If u cant support it, let it go!

Argh...

[ This Message was edited by: terrence on 2004-05-11 09:32 ]

Counterparts · Post by **Counterparts** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:37 am

hubird wrote:

respect please!
I'm still very uneasy about the new atmosphere some new members are showing these days.

I quite agree. I believe that I'm right in saying that Immanuel's new sig. is a direct result of what's gone on in these forums since the first SFP v.4 announcements.

What he's saying makes perfect sense, to whit: this forum is for users of the Creamware platform wishing to share knowledge or get help on a related topic. It would seem to make more sense to talk directly to CWA if anybody has a problem with them, not to raise the issue here - to do so will not resolve anything.

Royston

Jan Nolte · Post by **Jan Nolte** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:54 am

On 2004-05-11 09:03, Ashkenazy wrote:
It's also annoying that I don't have a creditcard, so that I can't do the transfer anyway.

Yes, I also have no credit-card!!

terrence · Post by **terrence** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:57 am

"It would seem to make more sense to talk directly to CWA if anybody has a problem with them"

Sometimes teaming up will make u achief more. But I agree that people shouldnt flood this forum with (rude) posts etc.

T.

Post by **hubird** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:05 am

One thing in general:
At least the damage is half as big as it seems, if the transfer is between different people:
the transfer costs can (should) be devided between the two of them...
This makes €17,5 and 27,5 instead of 35 and 55.
If you wanne hear this...

Jan Nolte · Post by **Jan Nolte** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:29 am

On 2004-05-11 10:05, hubird wrote:
One thing in general:
At least the damage is half as big as it seems, if the transfer is between different people:
the transfer costs can (should) be devided between the two of them...
This makes €17,5 and 27,5 instead of 35 and 55.
If you wanne hear this...

If you sell a plugin via ebay the people bid less, if they know they have to pay the transfer costs. If they have to pay 35€ , they bid 35€ less, if they have to pay 17,50€ , they bid 17,50€ less and so on...so at least you lost the 35€ by hook or by crook.

[ This Message was edited by: Jan Nolte on 2004-05-11 10:30 ]

eyesight · Post by **eyesight** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:30 am

[ This Message was edited by: eyesight on 2004-05-12 01:03 ]

remixme · Post by **remixme** » Tue May 11, 2004 10:00 am

I agree with the point that grievances should be shared here, because in all honesty I think companies take very little notice of complaints aimed directly at them, unless they affect sales.

Public grievances also raise awareness of the problem, to the point where companies are more likely to do something about them, in fear of falling sales.

However I will echo the request for grievances/complaints and different points of view to be put forward in a polite manner.

This has always been a friendly place to be, lets keep it that way.

Ashkenazy · Post by **Ashkenazy** » Tue May 11, 2004 10:01 am

O.K. I'll erase this satanic post.

[ This Message was edited by: Ashkenazy on 2004-05-12 06:37 ]

bosone · Post by **bosone** » Tue May 11, 2004 10:29 am

i can justify what CW is doing... a plugin traded between users is one less plugin sold, no doubt.
and the time-consuming argument from CW side to transfer the plugin is rock-solid

my additions:

if the plugin transfer is done between 2 cards registerd to the same user, no fee should be charged.
ex: i have luna+pulsar. all my plugs are registered to the pulsar.
if i will ever buy a scope, i'd like to
1) transfer flexor to scope
2) sell the pulsar
i don't want to pay 35euro for re-register to me the same plug.

regarding ebay trades, the seller should clarify who is paying the transfer...

j9k · Post by **j9k** » Tue May 11, 2004 10:48 am

i find it amazing that they even let people transfer plugins between the cards when they could have said all sales were final. we could have been forced to buy everything at full price in the shop from the beginning. plus when the insolvency happened this "service" could have been gone forever.

also now they will be able to hire another support guy or two and hopefully i can stop reading about how long these transfers take.

j9k

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue May 11, 2004 10:51 am

I really can't imagine you people exchange plugins every day as part of your normal routine, so why is this breaking the bank???

This fee is only a one-off thing for the occasion that you'd need to sell a plugin. One here, one there. It isn't like you have to pay weekly fees to use your cards, is it?

CreamWare is really on the skids right now financially and they're having to see what takes the most resources and gut it or charge for it. I had no idea that the transfer of plugins was such a big ordeal before...now that I know what's involved, I think they have every right to charge for it. 5 euros is silly because that's hardly anything. 35 is a little steep -- I think 20 or 25 might have been good, but just remember that they have high taxes in Europe.

All this complaining and swearing isn't going to do any good.

Shayne

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Tue May 11, 2004 11:06 am

I wrote some utter BS here. please ignore.

[ This Message was edited by: piddi on 2004-05-11 15:08 ]

Krabat · Post by **Krabat** » Tue May 11, 2004 11:25 am

I own my pulsar1 since times when CPU were very slow. I love it and I want to keep it. What does this have to do with re-registration?

Well, the plugs are good indeed, but there are other good ones outside. When I think about a new one, one thougt goes to: Where can I use it. Creamware's place is very limited - you can't take it along with you on a laptop, eg. So you have to calculate this in the price of the plugin, in my opinion.

When I bought my pulsar, I had to think about CPU-Power, not so today. So why should I buy a plugin for my pulsar?
I know, Creamware has to earn (more) money, but are they on the right way?
I'm not a pro, I don't earn money mith making music. It's just fun for me. I recently bought the ModIII for half price. CWA could get more money from me with cheaper devices, not with more expencive support. Maybe this is true for others, too, so they could get more money at all by lowering the prices. It's not the re-registration thing, but it makes me wonder what's to be the next...

And if they need money, why do they give away Mix'n'Master... for free to new ones (only because of TC/UAD)?

Well, I thought about getting a second card some time, but with a look at support things, don't know, if I'd rather spend the next money in a system with a more predictable future (hopefully this is true to VST).

I feel a bit like at the end of emagic/PC. Dark clouds over the audio market

Kind regards, Gunnar

Immanuel · Post by **Immanuel** » Tue May 11, 2004 11:32 am

On 2004-05-11 12:06, piddi wrote:

This fee is only a one-off thing for the occasion that you'd need to sell a plugin. One here, one there. It isn't like you have to pay weekly fees to use your cards, is it?

Correct. But what if you have a pulsar II, then u buy a Pulsar I with maybe 5 extra plugins, and want to register them to the Pulsar II for the convinience?

thats another 170 euro for you, not much less than u pay for the used pulsar I.

Piddi - please discuss the actual situation. there is a transfer everything you want from one card fee, wich is 55€. 170€ is just making it look worse, than it is.

powerpulsarian · Post by **powerpulsarian** » Tue May 11, 2004 11:37 am

My bet is that this comes down to Creamware's sales directly competing with second-hand sales of the plugins. By charging for a transfer, they make money regardless of whether the plugin is bought directly from them or purchased used from someone. (I think it is more this than wanting to cover the cost of support, especially considering the price they put on it. As others have said, if it was 5 EURO, then that would be more reasonable and people would buy in to it as covering the cost of support rather than Creamware wanting to make a profit from transfers.)

I personally think this is a really bad move. It discourages people to invest in something because they know going in they will never be able to sell it for anything near what they paid (since you have to subract the transfer price).

With all native software instruments and effects, I don't know one company that charges you to transfer to a new owner. This means if you don't end up using the software as much as you thought or just decide you don't like it, you can usually sell it and recoup a good portion of your cost. This is no longer the case with Creamware plugins, making people have to really think twice before making a purchase.

Copy protection is good, but not at such a disadvantage to users (direct financial disadvantage, not just a hassle). I know I will be thinking twice before buying my next Creamware plugin because of this - and I am sure others will also. This equates to another BAD move by Creamware IMO.

Why can't Creamware do something like what Native Instruments does with their software products? Like Microsoft products, you must activate your software to continue using it (this is tied to you computer hardware configuration - in Creamware's case it would be tied to your board serial number). If you want to sell your software, you simple go on their web site and unregister it from your computer so someone else can register it to their computer. When you unregister the software, it puts a lock on the software so that it can never be registered back to that particular computer (in Creamware's case, the plugin serial number would never be able to registered back to your particular board). Everything is automated and completed online. I am sure it is very rare that NI support ever needs to intervene in the process.

I know this exact process wouldn't work for Creamware plugins, but I am sure something similar could be put in place that would work (automated, easy and effective without charging customers). But it is my belief that Creamware is more interested in making a profit from used sales, so it doesn't make any sense for them in this case.

While a few of the dedicated users have argued why Creamware must do this, I think the general buying public out there will not see it that way and may just avoid Creamware as a result (it's too risky to buy something you can never sell for anything decent if you don't end up using it or liking it). My dollar is probably better spent on dedicated hardware or software that I can resell down the road if I decide not to use it.

The bottom lins is this move to charging for transfers will get Creamware bad press and word of mouth in regards to how they treat their customers. It really is too bad that they make decisions that will ultimately hurt them rather than bring them new business.

[ This Message was edited by: powerpulsarian on 2004-05-11 12:57 ]