SP 4.0 and "older" cards information

melenko · Post by **melenko** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:46 am

thanks a lot to planetz for hosting our complaints

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:20 pm

On 2004-04-17 10:09, braincell wrote:
Kingofsnake,

I am so excited about the new colors on their website that I wet my underwear which caused it to become the same colors as the new creamware website!

By the way, ganging up and calling me rude names will just make me post more.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: braincell on 2004-04-17 10:14 ]</font>

I am not the least surprised that some people may feel uncomfortable with your posts Braincell. You should acknowledge you have quite a nonconformist way of thinking and writing to express yourself about almost anything in life, including music gear. This particular post of yours should probably have been send through a private message to King of Snake, instead of doing it a public statement, cos of it’s personal confrontational nature. This helps nobody, on the contrary, it puts in its way a future problem to the forum that will for sure arrive if this is not stopped right here. I also hope you are joking when saying: “ganging up and calling me rude names will just make me post more”; if you actually mean it, and you are planning to start a fight here please don’t. Unfortunately, when you are saying “posting more”, you are not referring to reviews, studies, new ideas, creative thinking, etc., but more complains, this is what I clearly understand by your post. We have already had some wars of words in the Z with no good results, they are nevertheless useless. Please, reconsider.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nestor on 2004-04-17 13:21 ]</font>

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:53 pm

Okay Nestor

Alphawave · Post by **Alphawave** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:24 am

On 2004-04-16 19:46, R-type wrote:
I can't use more than one instance of Minimax in a project and I'm not the only one.

I hope this is fixed in the new version, so yes SFP 4 could be quite important in my music making.

I can load min. four times Minimax on my 10 DSP´s.

Are you sure that this is not a hardware problem of yours? In which case, SFP x.x will not make a difference in a milion years.

There will be some bug corrections but i guess we just have to wait and see.

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:47 am

On 2004-04-17 10:09, braincell wrote:
Kingofsnake,

I am so excited about the new colors on their website that I wet my underwear which caused it to become the same colors as the new creamware website!

?? Yeah whatever ??

By the way, ganging up and calling me rude names will just make me post more.

That sort of behaviour is commonly known as "trolling" and it's really rather pointless and childish, unless you mean "i will post more informative, helpful, constructive information" which somehow I doubt.
Look man, no one is attacking you on a personal basis and I can't remember calling you any rude names either. It's just the continuous and often unfounded negativity that gets on people's nerves. Using all sorts of "facts" in your arguments that later turn out to be wrong doesn't help your case either.
We've all had our say about what we don't like about CW and what could be done better. So far, CW have seemed responsive to our comments. But for some reason you seem intent on kicking up this shit at every possible moment.

Okay Nestor

I hope you mean that.

proberock · Post by **proberock** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:38 am

I have had the opportunity to see the intaller of sfp 4.0 and all the files that it contains... For one, the drivers of the board are the EXACT same than the ones in sfp 3.1c ... bad start i'd say...
So I decided to check the rest of the files dates and sizes ...
they're ALL the same as sfp3.1c except for SFP.exe and uninstall.exe in app/bin folder, a few files in the DSP folder, the MIDI mERGER 1-4-8-16 devices in the DEVICES folder and a few added dsp and devices files in their respective folder...
Now i won't claim i know the internals of sfp at all...but with a simple date and size comparison it seems that nothing important has changed AT ALL ...
And don't get me wrong , i have two pulsars, i'm a big fan of the concept from day one, but there it's a bit too much, more than one year for that? a simple repack of the app, new icons, a few new devices included in the installer (not free of course) , new install serial number and that's it! Nothing more...
Registration is not available yet so i couldn't try it, but all this makes me feel like i won't even need to try it, because it seems it will just have the same bugs, still no dx driver,etc...
i'm just disappointed, and i see you all waiting for it like the messiah or almost, so i thought i'd just tell what i know...
cheers
proberock

cannonball · Post by **cannonball** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:44 pm

hi

i noticed this me too
and i put the new dsp files into 3.1c dsp folder and all works
maybe a little better maybe....
some dsp are related to prodissey others to b3 others to the system maybe...
my sfp 4 is from musikmesse
maybe the sfp4 from web
contains others news maybe...

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:22 pm

So there are no new updates to the WDM drivers?

proberock · Post by **proberock** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:51 pm

"if" there's no change in the web distribution compared to the cd from musikmesse then the drivers (what's in DriverWin2k) are the exact same files that are in sfp 3.1c full install... the dll's in app/bin are also all the same, and i mean all of them (asioScop.DLL, Wav.dll, etc ...)so i guess nothing has changed at all on the driver side...not even a real directx driver...pff, we had it under w98, every 5$ soundcard has one...
I guess this sfp release is just a marketing thing, to make talk about em...
I personnaly wasn't waiting for a total rewrite of sfp, i just wanted working direct x drivers, thing that we should have since the day it was released, thing that i hoped we would have in this update, thing that every other audio card manufacturer has...sad
Maybe i'm talking too fast you'd say...
can't really say i'm not, as i haven't installed it ...
But still i don't see why they'd change anything in three weeks they didn't change in almost two years...it's a bit hopeless to think they will change anything between musikmesse and the official web release, and a version number is a version number...it's labelled sfp 4.0, so it's sfp 4.0...if anything has changed they'd have to release a 4.0a or something...
sorry for this "kind of" bad news...
cheers
proberock

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:05 pm

OK, thanks for the info!

DirectX is handled by Windows these days. MME, DirectSound, and even a form of ASIO (not low-latency) is handled by the Windows Kernel Mixer. It all gets filtered down to the sound card driver from there. Any DirectSound anything now goes through Wave. ME, 2k, and XP are like that.

Shayne

proberock · Post by **proberock** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:18 pm

yes, but the current driver is totally unable to perform correctly with the "directx hardware acceleration" tab set to the max, you have to disable any kind of hardware acceleration in dxdiag to have the driver working (or kinda), but it then has an awful latency that makes it not really usable...

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:08 pm

whatever that direct x thingy may be:
I confess guilty of dissing native devices here because I demoed them through exactly that channel

at least the FM7 sounded way better through Scope Asio...

cheers, Tom

genoxcide · Post by **genoxcide** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:16 pm

well about the directx HW acceleration...

The CW Cards are no "Soundcards" in the classical way.. so why should they release a Directx-driver for it?
the main usage is ASIO and thats damn good with the CW cards

Also for games or other programs using soundout MME is good enough.. or Onboard...
BTW i am using the CW in games via DirectX Software.. and it sounds very good though...
Ok i have no EAX or such stuff.. but it is no Creative Labs Card with its bugs and limitations

cheerz,
GenocidE

Post by **garyb** » Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:26 pm

thank you.

powerpulsarian · Post by **powerpulsarian** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:22 am

On 2004-04-18 11:38, proberock wrote:
And don't get me wrong , i have two pulsars, i'm a big fan of the concept from day one, but there it's a bit too much, more than one year for that? a simple repack of the app, new icons, a few new devices included in the installer (not free of course) , new install serial number and that's it! Nothing more...
Registration is not available yet so i couldn't try it, but all this makes me feel like i won't even need to try it, because it seems it will just have the same bugs, still no dx driver,etc...
i'm just disappointed, and i see you all waiting for it like the messiah or almost, so i thought i'd just tell what i know...
cheers
proberock

If there is really nothing new, my feeling is that Creamware is making a pretty huge mistake releasing a new version.

I understand the idea that they need to launch a new look for the new products (which by the way, where are the new cards? No stores seem to have them and I am sure there are people holding off on making a purchase until they know they will get the new version of the cards. Even if the old cards will be recognized as the same as the new cards if you buy them now, there is no explanation of this which I am sure will make people reluctant to make a purchase... another mistake).

However, to make it sound like there is something major and not delivering just makes people angry. Also, I am sure it will be another huge download. Another reason to make people angry if they spend time downloading it and then find that there really isn't anything new.

So I really hope they do have something worthwile to offer in 4.0.

I am really getting concerned about the future of Creamware again with the way things have been handled lately. At the very least, it seems they should release a quick message on their web site to clarify some things or even a post to this forum.

snoopy4ever · Post by **snoopy4ever** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:17 am

Oh well... there it goes...

Marketing....

That's the whole idea behind the SFP 4.0, let's face it.. We all were really surprised about this "4.0".., it was kind of obvious that, out of nowhere, they would come up with such amazing jump from 3.1c to 4.0.

Actually they needed that, not us of course, but the company needed such a new "face" to promote CW to new customers.. , I think we would do such things in order to gain new customers and new attention to a company that just came out of insolvency. It's sad for us but I think in long term it will be good too.... yes a little bit of honesty or information would have been good before creating such expectations about 4.0. Can't really blame people to be upset and dissapointed, cause they were leaded to it. Now we are forced to wait and see.

Nestor · Post by **Nestor** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:53 am

I think you have to wait a bit... you may get some good news by the end, and some bug fixes.

10 years ago, little people were aware of markeging and related, but today marketing is everywere, in excess of "too much" and so everybody knows a little bit about it. We use to believe straightforward what a company would say, at least, much more than today. Today you just know the "face" of a company is never the "heart" of it. Nevertheless, the guys at Creamware have been honest to us for years, I don't think they are trying to get us in anyway... The best thing we can do, is waiting to see what happens.

Vitamin C · Post by **Vitamin C** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:54 am

But what should it be?

Of course, for new Users... But the same System was also selled out under the old Company.

What's the difference between CW -2003 and CWA 2004+? Same Products to same conditions...

CWA is not only living on new customers. The huge amount of existing Users want to be supported so that they will buy further products in future!

New customers will come automatically when the new CWA makes more promotion in magazines and stores...

And they... of course can buy additional PlugIns! They are making money.

oxygenial · Post by **oxygenial** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:45 am

We all know that CW cards are different, otherwise we wouldn't be here at all, but I'm still waiting on getting a "Working" asio driver still!

I've tried Via based mb's, KT133A, KT266, KT333. No luck

I've tried NForce based mb's, still not 100% satisfied. No stable sync, pops and clicks!!!

I've tried, i845 based mb's, same as NForce!
I've tried, i865/i875 based mb's, and I'm still getting pops and clicks!?!?

I've tried all the boards with both W2k and XP, and both OS's with and without ACPI support! Not to meniton ALL PCI slots. And can't still get the CW cards to work properly!

Something is definately wrong with the driver, specially since I'm not the only one having these problems!

So if CW won't get a working driver, then I'm outta patience! Going midiman, since I know it'll work on all the above mb's except for Via!

On 2004-04-18 21:16, genoxcide wrote:
well about the directx HW acceleration...

The CW Cards are no "Soundcards" in the classical way.. so why should they release a Directx-driver for it?
the main usage is ASIO and thats damn good with the CW cards
Also for games or other programs using soundout MME is good enough.. or Onboard...
BTW i am using the CW in games via DirectX Software.. and it sounds very good though...
Ok i have no EAX or such stuff.. but it is no Creative Labs Card with its bugs and limitations

cheerz,
GenocidE

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:32 am

I'm not having any clicks and pops problems. I've got an i845 board.