Considering a Pulsar II purchase, many questions if any one

bassdude · Post by **bassdude** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 9:29 pm

Basic Pitch,

I guess it really depends on how you want to work. If you are using nuendo for mixing and effects then maybe you should look at the TC powercore (do they do synths on tc powercore??) to compliment your UAD.
In my case I use the sequencer software purely as a tape deck and do all the mixing and effects in the pulsar environment and not in the sequencer.
So I've decided for myself to work in a way that is probably less convenient. But that's ok because I prefer the sound of the pulsar platform so convenience takes a backseat.
It's like when I edit live drums. Sometimes using a gate or a tool that automatically strips silence out of a track just doesn't get the result I'm after, so the only way to do it is to get in there and do it manually!

Everyone has their own way of working of course.

Basic Pitch · Post by **Basic Pitch** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 10:18 pm

Hola again,

I just want to say thanks to you all for your input, it is really appreciated, I am thinking at this moment on the rout I will take, the major upside to the consideration of a pulsar package is ofcourse all the synths and effects, versus the powercore which has some outstanding plugs and (1) synth, an SH101 variation.

For me at this moment it is really going to come down to trying to decide if I am willing to go with a pulsar system and not take advanatge of a feature set within nuendo, or to go with a powercore and not take advantage of the synths available within the CW cards.

Both of these scenarios have there pro's and con's.

- If I go with a CW card, I am going to basically want a Powerpulsar for the 15 DSP or I wont be able to really take advantage of being able to use synths and effects simultanious due to DSP resource, thus having to spend approx. $2000.00 to do it right.

- Or, go with a Powercore which does not give me half the feature set of a CW card, spend $1000.00 for the basic plugs and then approx another $5-600 - 1500.00, for some of the better plugs available, namely the Sony packs.

This is a VERY hard decision to make at the moment, but this info here will help me decide what the best rout to take will be, either way, this place is a class act

Since I have not been able to test drive a card yet, this is all the info I have available to me currently

Cheers!

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:18 am

Let me add just one question as this wasn't exactly clear from the previous posts (I'm not using a sequencer myself) and it's so frequently mentioned:

isn't the main benefit of the sequencer's 'bounce' or 'render to audio' feature that it's faster than realtime, comparable to audio CD grabbing ?

I remember having read something in that direction and that SFP (like any DSP system) can only process data in realtime.
That's no flaw but built right in the architcture of the system.

Anyway, a test drive of the card would indeed be the best thing.

cheers, Tom

Spirit · Post by **Spirit** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 9:15 am

Yes, definitely see whether you can get a card on "approval". That's what I did with my Pulsar - I ummed and ahhed a lot in the shop, then asked whether they would set one up for me. The guy turned a bit green at that, so I suggested I take it for a week and bring it back if I wasn't happy.

That's now two years ago.

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:06 am

One thing that I'd like to add to this discussion that I think haven't been touched yet....

The Creamware system is much more of compositional framework than a bunch of DSP plugs. No doubt the UAD and Powercore have quality behind them, but if you are interested in real composition and want to learn more about how sound works, have total control over sonic manipulation and simply have access to about 70 synths, 100+ FX, and numerous toys, you'll definately appreciate the Creamware environment.

I DLed all of Hummel's synths (http://www.track0.com/wavelength/shareware.html) when he first made the batch shareware, and didn't use them at first, but as I began exploring them, I began to really dig into all the 3rd party stuff floating around and there are some really fantastic tools out there that are free.

The 'Saturn' synth is a classic, Hummel's synths, Neutron's plugs (though he's on plug-making sebatical at his current job), and the new Adern teams contributions are all fantastic. These types of choices and dynamic sounds are a product of being able to operate outside of the paradigm of what the producing company has in mind for it's next releases. I'm pretty sure Powercore is a closed system.

Though Creamware is not exactly an open book with it's 3rd party developers, there is enough communication and rabid followers/designers interested that when one group slows down, some new one pops up with fantastic releases. You will definately get much more return on your investment going with a community of developers, fans, and audiophiles, than just dealing with TC. I've learned more about audio from this forum and playing with my studio-in-a-box (which in my opinion is a title that sells the CW platform short) than from school or books, or even talking to professionals.

This is a system that will flex itself in whatever direction you find yourself working, composing, playing.

Just make sure you have a good motherboard before taking the plunge. You will hate life if you have a cheap board. A search for 'motherboard' or 'mobo' will display endless threads for you to look through.

Hopefully that gives you some more understanding about what the platform is outside of just the raw plugs.

Sam

spoimala · Post by **spoimala** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:42 am

One note on synthesizers' side: are you a "Roland JV 'n' Korg Triton presets" type of guy or "oscillators'n'modulators tweak-and-sweat" type of guy? Or willing to become the latter?

I was one of the first type, and SFP synths looked like aliens and sounded like space shuttles. They still do

But I'm happy, because I'm really willing to learn more about synthesis and sound generation and become a tweaker.
(And I just wait that CW will release modular III and a sampler for Noah so I could sell all my 50+ kilograms of synths and modules

)

dehuszar · Post by **dehuszar** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:17 pm

Also, along the lines of tweaking synthesizers... Be sure to invest in some set of knobs and sliders. I just go the UC-33 and Remote25 (though the Remote is still shipping). Having knobs makes all the devices WWAAAAYYYY more accessible than doing the mouse click thing. VSTs are the same way, but if you're going to invest, that extra little purchase will go a long way towards helping you wrap your head around the system, synths, mixers, FX. Each devices capabilities' become much more apparent, much quicker.

Sam

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:39 pm

On 2003-08-18 12:42, spoimala wrote:
One note on synthesizers' side: are you a "Roland JV 'n' Korg Triton presets" type of guy or "oscillators'n'modulators tweak-and-sweat" type of guy? Or willing to become the latter?

I was one of the first type, and SFP synths looked like aliens and sounded like space shuttles. They still do
But I'm happy, because I'm really willing to learn more about synthesis and sound generation and become a tweaker.
(And I just wait that CW will release modular III and a sampler for Noah so I could sell all my 50+ kilograms of synths and modules )

Yeah, stuff like the Roland JV's is all sample-based which gives you lots of voices and polyphony and sounds you can't get with "normal" synths. Most pulsar synths are of the "virtual analog" kind, mostly classic substractive synthesis, although there are FM, and wavetable synths as well. (and modular of course)

spoimala · Post by **spoimala** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:01 am

Yeah, stuff like the Roland JV's is all sample-based which gives you lots of voices and polyphony and sounds you can't get with "normal" synths.

Have a gallup in a musicstore and ask which is normal synth

After you saying this I may delay my modular purchase and still keep my JV's.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:04 am

On 2003-08-18 19:17, dehuszar wrote:
Also, along the lines of tweaking synthesizers... Be sure to invest in some set of knobs and sliders. I just go the UC-33 and Remote25 (though the Remote is still shipping). Having knobs makes all the devices WWAAAAYYYY more accessible than doing the mouse click thing. VSTs are the same way, but if you're going to invest, that extra little purchase will go a long way towards helping you wrap your head around the system, synths, mixers, FX. Each devices capabilities' become much more apparent, much quicker.

Sam

This is so true, it's incredible how working with several midi controllers (and more than one monitor) changes the feel and the compositional/recording/mixing approach to making music when working with digital devices. Using a mouse only will slow down your creativity/spontaniousness, hence eventually lower down your productions quality

Willybomb · Post by **Willybomb** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 4:53 pm

This is a great thread, I'm in a similar boat, already posted a similar thread, but I'll do a bit of a hijack.

Forgetting syths for a bit - I don't play keyboards, and not many of the bands I record do - how does XTC mode work? The impression from the creamware site (which I don't feel is much chop)is that you can insert the pulsar effects into any VST host. Lemme get a few things straight:

Do the settings for each pulsar plug stay when you save the .vip, .sng or whatever, or do you have to reset them every time you load the song file?

You can't do an offline mixdown, even in XTC mode? That's a bit wacky. The Luna only has 3 DSPs (so I'm looking at PulsarII), so bouncing might be a necessary evil, especially if I've got a reverb or 2 on the auxs.

Main thing for me is that I want to run a good reverb or two (aux), some comps and amp sims (inserts), and whatever else I seem to need at the time.

I'm reading ways around it, but.... hmm...

Willy.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:06 pm

On 2003-08-24 17:53, Willybomb wrote:
...You can't do an offline mixdown, even in XTC mode? That's a bit wacky. ...

of course you can - but only in realtime. That's required by the architecture of the DSPs, those 'workarounds' are just various ways how it can be done.
On a VST track with native processing the math rule of the VST effect is applied to the data as fast as the system reads the disk.
How long it needs to rewrite the data depends on the complexity of the processing. That's usually pretty fast but compared to the audio standards of Sharc processing it's often pretty pale, too.
In other words: if you'd want the same quality in native processing it would cause a significant amount of processing (not driver!) latency.

cheers, tom

Willybomb · Post by **Willybomb** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 8:02 am

So I'd just have to do an online mixdown instead of an offline one. That's cool, I can live with that, and understand the reasons for it.

Thanks heaps.