More questions about monitors...

valis · Post by **valis** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:12 am

I am looking for a pair of monitors for my friend. When working together we write mostly Drum & Bass (with an occasional hiphop tune) and I have to spend a LOT of time reengineering what he brings to me, mostly due to his use of a Hifi amp and 80's 3-way hifi speakers.

Here's an example of something we were working on last week: http://www.kief.net/valis/Example.mp3 (128kb)

I have Mackie Hr824's here and I am perfectly happy with them but he can't afford the 824's or 624's. However something needs to be done as its obvious his monitoring situation is really not that great and its causing us to lose time having to rework things he's already done. In the past I have had experience with Yamaha ns-10's, Alesis monitor 1's and Event 2020p's (powered version of ps8). Realizing that all 3 of these companies have 'newer' versions of these monitors I'd have to say that I'm not overly fond of any of the old models and the new Yamaha's are out of his price range as well now. The old ns10's and the alesis give a great perspective on how projects will sound on small systems but they're very shy in the low end reproduction--important in drum & bass. The Events certainly aren't shy in low end but it seemed to me that they port tuning on them is very boomy in the 70-90hz region (we had problems in the past translating mixes to club systems).

So the question is, what inexpensive mid-range monitor will give the best balance for a budget (less than $700 USD) and yet still give a somewhat accurate picture of what exists below 110hz?

Post by **garyb** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:41 am

for the money,i'd reccomend the yorkville ysm1p.very accurate and detailed for a cheapie.the behringer is a copy of the mackie,it should do.how about a used pair?

Post by **hubird** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:29 pm

indeed, given a restricted budget a used pair of quality monitors is the best you can do if you're after a balanced sound

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:01 pm

I'd spend a bit more money on monitors, as whatever you create will depend on how flat and accurate they are.

Or buy used. Three years ago I bought a pair of used KRK V8's for $750. They are active, with separate amplifiers for the highs and lows.

Also, I've heard some of the Event monitors color the sound due to a compression circuit in the amplifier. Don't want that for proper monitoring.

Sven

Post by **hubird** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:53 pm

andyou could check out my out of place post about a nearfields magazin test here.

krizrox · Post by **krizrox** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:35 am

On 2003-08-14 12:12, valis wrote:

So the question is, what inexpensive mid-range monitor will give the best balance for a budget (less than $700 USD) and yet still give a somewhat accurate picture of what exists below 110hz?

here's my 2 cents - especially as it relates to rap/hip hip or anything in that style of music:

I think you and your friend are going to be somewhat disappointed if you think you are going to find a decent set of monitor speakers for under $700 - especially monitors that need to accurately reproduce rap style music. You may get lucky and find something used. Who knows. The problem is in the low end. And it's not even really an issue of adding a subwoofer. The thing with rap is, you need a lot of definition in the mid-lows and hi-lows - in addition to the sub stuff. Of course you want a natural top end response but these things have to literally kick ass in order to be effective for rap (or whatever you want to call it).

You just can't get that level of intelligence in the mid-lows with cheapy monitors and a sub. Well, ok. I admit I haven't heard ever single product out there on the market. Maybe someone, somewhere is making a magical set of bookshelf speakers for under $700. But I doubt it.

Since I haven't really answered your question, how about this: buy the best you can afford. Be sure to listen to whatever it is for yourselves and don't trust what others tell you. Then, spend some time tweaking your room to make sure those speakers are properly placed and balanced in the room. Next, use some commercial CD's of the same style and AB that against your own mixes. If you follow those suggestions, you should be able to produce satisfactory results and over time, you'll know what the strengths and weaknesses of your monitors are and how well your mixes translate to the outside world.

Travel your local studio circuit. Don't be afraid to call a few studios in your area and ask them for help in choosing. Bring along one of your favorite CD's and listen to it in as many different places as possible. I'd say, spend a lot of time listening to the bass frequencies (especially mid-bass).

The main thing is: have fun looking!! Speakers are one area where you almost can't spend enough money. And what comes out of them is so subjective and personal, that you simply can't take anything for granted. You absolutely must hear them for yourself. People who buy speakers out of a catalog or based on a friends' recommendation, get what they deserve.

valis · Post by **valis** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 6:57 am

In the city I'm in the only real option for buying studio monitors is Guitar Center. What they carry is pretty much everything I listed in my first post. I bought my mackies elsewhere, and personally I find them more than adequate for what I do.

Also any Hiphop we mess about with is far from our mainstay and the odd snippet we do is closer to downtempo/leftfield than rap. The real focus is Drum 'n bass and yes, this too requires somewhat accurate reproduction of highs & lows.

The main issue here is that in 6-9 months he could afford to have mackie hr824's, and so I've been trying to steer him towards the 624's but they're still more than he can afford to spend within any reasonable amount of time and so we're losing productivity. In a year's time his situation may well be different and havina crappier pair of speakers hanging about isn't always a bad thing, I have 3

I'm really asking for 'the next best thing' here and thank you for I've gotten a few answers. More answers are definately appreciated and meanwhile I'll look into used offerings and the yorkville ysm1p. I have to admit however I'm a bit leery of steering him towards used drivers that I can't check out in person for obvious reasons...

interloper · Post by **interloper** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:51 pm

If you are doing hip hop / drum & bass you definintely need 8 inch woofers for the lows.

In that case go for the HR824's or some good equivalent. With all that low frequency content, it will take probably several months or more to get a mix right if you have monitors with 6" woofers.

Also, consider if you get cheaper monitors now and want to resell later, you won't get what you paid for them (unless you're lucky).

You should also look at getting a sub down the road for your style of music.

VenuZ · Post by **VenuZ** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 6:18 pm

It's very important to know if you need near field monitor or mid field ones. If you don't have any acoustic tratment in your room you need to choose a near field monitor.
Interloper is right about telling you 8'' woofer for your type of music, but remember that a monitor like that shouldn't be listend too near, so you need a good acoustic on your room, or you will got only crappy sound from it, also from a Mackie 824 monitors...
If you need a near field monitor to be placed on your desk in front of you, then you should go for a 6.5'' woofer.
KRK V6 are great monitors for it, but for about the half of their price, I can reccomend you to check Event Tr6: great quality/price compromise.
Good luck

Gab

Post by **garyb** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:03 pm

for best results,mixing should be done at moderate volumes as well.

valis · Post by **valis** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:47 pm

I tend to always mix at moderate volumes unless I'm comparing against something else.

The Yorkville's that someone recommended look like a good deal, it was looking like the only other option was the new MkII Events (whatever they are.) I'm perfectly happy with My HR824's but I have got to get my boy SOMETHING....

Post by **garyb** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:53 pm

the yorkvilles,while not a real great bass speaker,are an EXCELLENT pair of monitors to mix with,good detail and well balanced.at moderate volumes,they are all you need.for impressing clients,get a used pair of the biggest home stereo speaks you can find.they'll be cheap and sexy and boomy..........

Willybomb · Post by **Willybomb** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:16 pm

I've got a set of Yorkville YSM1i myself actually - very very happy with them. If you tried them, I think you'd be pleasently surprised.

valis · Post by **valis** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:03 am

Any idea where I could find a reputable shop in the US to nab a pair of yorkville ysm1p's?

Post by **garyb** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:37 am

email me