Thomas
Great SOS review of SFP3.1c and Prophet Plus
I haven't tried the V-Dat. Does it run entirely on DSP? How much DSP per track?On 2003-05-28 07:38, virtualstudio wrote:
its nice to read what we all here allready know, SFP is great!!! and than to think that it doesn''t say nothing to (imho)one of its greatest features V-DAT.
an as for the cons it doesn't say anything about sfp!! if you can't affort a mercedes it doesn't make a VW bad !! and since when is lust a bad feeling?
Terranova-Amsterdam
Thanks!
-
marcuspocus
- Posts: 2310
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Canada/France
It use almost no DSP except the dsp it need for connection to other drivers or inputs and generating the clock needed to synchronize external adat and sequencer.
It run on cpu, but there is almost nothing to run... It is streaming audio data in wav files on many tracks.
The thing need a very good harddisk to perform thou, like any multitrack recorder, but perform better than most multitrack recorder i've tried.
For example, i'm able to record about 8-10 stereo track in 24bits/44.1khz in Logic while i can record 24 stereo tracks (48 mono) at 24bits/44.1khz or even 32bits/44.1khz in vdat. Recording in 32bits is even easier, no padding of 24 + 8 is needed, but pose the problem of editing a 32bits wav files. Not many wav editor supports 32bits.
The trick here is that vdat create the files before the recording, so while you record it only need to stream data inside the already existing files. Saving lotsa resources for higher track counts.
One thing, the recording is flawless and sample accurate. That's the whole point of using it.
The way i work with it is like this:
I record everything in vdat, including sfp synths with no effects except for vocal, where i put 'some' : Celmo's X-Machine for gating, compression and limiter to avoid digital clip.
Afetrward, i copy the tracks i want to edit into audio tracks of logic. Now that the recording is done, the sound will remain unaffected by logic. And btw, you can clearly ear the difference by recording in logic or vdat, even when logic play a track recorded by vdat.
So after copying those tracks, a can edit them, cut, copy, paste section of them etc.
For the synth tracks, why i record them? Well, i'm limited by DSP (i have 7dsp) so once they are recorded, i can set their voices to 0, libarating totaly the dsp, to load more synths
If i need change to those synths, i just give them voices back, and re-record them on the fly again in vdat.
Connection of sound source is like that:
sound source->vdat->asio dest
In Logic, i set input for each of them as AUX audio objects. Perfect for monitoring everything.
Pretty easy, don't even need a sfp mixer, even if a record everything in sfp.
For mastering, i do the final mix in sfp. No need for logic here except if you want some automation. (that why sfp should support recording internal automation like a digital standard console).
Most will think it's overkill, but i record the master mix in STS3000... STS3000 can record stereo wav at any bits rate, and the sound stays in sfp, in 24bits.
Here, the trick it to load a nice sfp mixer and vdat with your tape only, then apply mastering effects like Optimaster, PsyQ or FinalLiza if like me you don't have optimaster, etc...
After, you only need to dither to 16bits and your ready to burn on cd, or compress to and MP3 to publish on the Z
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2003-06-02 04:24 ]</font>
It run on cpu, but there is almost nothing to run... It is streaming audio data in wav files on many tracks.
The thing need a very good harddisk to perform thou, like any multitrack recorder, but perform better than most multitrack recorder i've tried.
For example, i'm able to record about 8-10 stereo track in 24bits/44.1khz in Logic while i can record 24 stereo tracks (48 mono) at 24bits/44.1khz or even 32bits/44.1khz in vdat. Recording in 32bits is even easier, no padding of 24 + 8 is needed, but pose the problem of editing a 32bits wav files. Not many wav editor supports 32bits.
The trick here is that vdat create the files before the recording, so while you record it only need to stream data inside the already existing files. Saving lotsa resources for higher track counts.
One thing, the recording is flawless and sample accurate. That's the whole point of using it.
The way i work with it is like this:
I record everything in vdat, including sfp synths with no effects except for vocal, where i put 'some' : Celmo's X-Machine for gating, compression and limiter to avoid digital clip.
Afetrward, i copy the tracks i want to edit into audio tracks of logic. Now that the recording is done, the sound will remain unaffected by logic. And btw, you can clearly ear the difference by recording in logic or vdat, even when logic play a track recorded by vdat.
So after copying those tracks, a can edit them, cut, copy, paste section of them etc.
For the synth tracks, why i record them? Well, i'm limited by DSP (i have 7dsp) so once they are recorded, i can set their voices to 0, libarating totaly the dsp, to load more synths
If i need change to those synths, i just give them voices back, and re-record them on the fly again in vdat.
Connection of sound source is like that:
sound source->vdat->asio dest
In Logic, i set input for each of them as AUX audio objects. Perfect for monitoring everything.
Pretty easy, don't even need a sfp mixer, even if a record everything in sfp.
For mastering, i do the final mix in sfp. No need for logic here except if you want some automation. (that why sfp should support recording internal automation like a digital standard console).
Most will think it's overkill, but i record the master mix in STS3000... STS3000 can record stereo wav at any bits rate, and the sound stays in sfp, in 24bits.
Here, the trick it to load a nice sfp mixer and vdat with your tape only, then apply mastering effects like Optimaster, PsyQ or FinalLiza if like me you don't have optimaster, etc...
After, you only need to dither to 16bits and your ready to burn on cd, or compress to and MP3 to publish on the Z
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: marcuspocus on 2003-06-02 04:24 ]</font>
-
marcuspocus
- Posts: 2310
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Canada/France
-
siberiansun
- Posts: 437
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:00 pm
- Location: Sweden
sure got my attention too...
but, do you record live instruments without any sequencer metronome? or do you record a clicktrack in vdat first? forgive my stupidity but i just didn't get it.
how about drums? i suppose you use logic to sequence the drums and then record them into vdat right?
(so many questions, so hard to express them...)
but, do you record live instruments without any sequencer metronome? or do you record a clicktrack in vdat first? forgive my stupidity but i just didn't get it.
how about drums? i suppose you use logic to sequence the drums and then record them into vdat right?
(so many questions, so hard to express them...)
-
marcuspocus
- Posts: 2310
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Canada/France
Bassdude : More solid than Logic
Siberiansun : Yeah, well it depend, for a jam, i loop a shaker for ~5 minute to have a click.
When i compose, i work normaly until i'm ready to record some real instruments (well synths are real instruments, but you can sequence them, it is a bit more difficult to sequence a guitar or a clarinet).
So i slave logic to vdat, arm a track for recording, i playback everything in my headphone to record in loop until i have the good take.
But make no mistake. It is a bit more complicated to work with and external recorder than recording directly in a sequencer. Just ask to someone how is really using a adat recorder. But VDAT is a'little' simpler than that.
The real gain, or value added is sound quality here. I'm gonna insist on sound...
Also, my partner doesn't have to buy the synths i'm using for example. It's not just like copying a logic song + a sfp project. If he doesn't have the synths i'm using, it's not a problem for him to still hear the complete mix and work on that.
Really i love vdat, i wish i could control it using an external control (like the play, stop, pause, record + jog wheel), but i still love it, would not record on anything else.
Siberiansun : Yeah, well it depend, for a jam, i loop a shaker for ~5 minute to have a click.
When i compose, i work normaly until i'm ready to record some real instruments (well synths are real instruments, but you can sequence them, it is a bit more difficult to sequence a guitar or a clarinet).
So i slave logic to vdat, arm a track for recording, i playback everything in my headphone to record in loop until i have the good take.
But make no mistake. It is a bit more complicated to work with and external recorder than recording directly in a sequencer. Just ask to someone how is really using a adat recorder. But VDAT is a'little' simpler than that.
The real gain, or value added is sound quality here. I'm gonna insist on sound...
Also, my partner doesn't have to buy the synths i'm using for example. It's not just like copying a logic song + a sfp project. If he doesn't have the synths i'm using, it's not a problem for him to still hear the complete mix and work on that.
Really i love vdat, i wish i could control it using an external control
(like the play, stop, pause, record + jog wheel), but i still love it, would not record on anything else.That definitely sounds impressive. I max out at roughly 24 tracks(mono)in logic. I'm not sure it's quite what I'm looking for yet though. I would either have to buy Cool Edit or another computer to do my edits. Neither of which I can afford right now. This does say that there is something incredible on the horizon from our friends in Siegburg. Just think... Automation,Mixing,Grouping,Recording,& maybe even Sequencing in one or two SFP devices. The thought of booting up one program with this much power gives me the chills. I hope it happens one day. I have Protools TDM experience & I would choose Creamware DSP with another DAW over it any day. It's much more creative. Now if we could only get rid of that "another DAW" part. Thanks for your help.
-
marcuspocus
- Posts: 2310
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: Canada/France