Disappointed by Musikmesse

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 12:33 pm

I thought Musikmesse was very boring this time around (at least on the Web -- I couldn't go to the show). It seemed like most of the press releases were companies saying they're shipping stuff they announced at NAMM. And nothing at all from CW....

Shayne

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 1:11 pm

Well I didn't really expect much new from CW, what with NOAH coming out they weren't going to introduce another big thing before the official NOAH launch.

Anyway, here's a bunch of pictures from the Messe, including some NOAH shots, enjoy!

http://www.acid.nl/~dsf/Messe%202003/Disc01/
http://www.acid.nl/~dsf/Messe%202003/Disc02/

_________________

[ This Message was edited by: King of Snake on 2003-03-11 13:19 ]

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 3:50 pm

btw. I liked the red knobs better.

otter · Post by **otter** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 5:02 pm

yeah, like this year they showed the same stuff from last year: sfp 3 and noah

the show was b.o.r.i.n.g.( ok i don´t like "Asia"; but who does anyway?)

the guy who led trough the show was even w.o.r.s.e. ( same as last year)
a complete amateur!
especially compared to the ones on TC, Steinberg and digidesign booth just next to CW.
i began to wonder if CW has big problems...

sorry for being so negative, i was disappointed ,too

"Vocaloid" by yamaha looked (and sounded)interesting.still beta stadium, though
And i like that firewire/mLan stuff.
How´bout using z-link for that ,er?

"logic" beeing completly absent felt strange, too.

[ This Message was edited by: otter on 2003-03-11 17:08 ]

siberiansun · Post by **siberiansun** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 5:15 pm

hmmm... i'm sure creamware has got a LOT of money invested in this whole "project NOAH".
one would say that if their closest target group, that would be us, isn't that impressed, maybe even sceptical then who will buy this product?

they have a good thing going, this whole SFP deal.
i like the fact that SFP is built for musicians as well as pure sound engineers so WHY would they wanna put so much effort into creating something that, imHo, others can do better...?

please correct me if i'm wrong.
peace and rock!

krizrox · Post by **krizrox** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 5:20 am

A little off-topic but pertinent to the conversation.....

Last year I paid for booth space at a local guitar show to promote my recording studio. They hold this particular guitar show here in my home town every year. I hadn't attended the show in a few years. Used to be you could barely move due to the number of people in attendance. All the big companies were represented including Fender, Gibson, Samick, etc.. Also many smaller independent companies that buy and sell used guitars and equipment.

I was really disappointed at the turn-out last year. Hardly anyone showed up. In fact, we shut down and left early. We were handing out free sampler CD's and had to practically force people to take one. My perspective on it (echoed by others in attendance) was that the economy was so bad, no one was interested anymore. Even the big boys were complaining.

Let's face it, CW is a niche company in a niche market. My guess is that they are feeling the pinch just like everyone else. In fact, I'm rather amazed that they have survived all these years or that they haven't been swallowed up by Steinberg or some other larger fish. I'd say that's a testament to their resolve! Good for them.

Who knows what the future holds but I hope they at least hang in there long enough to release a new tripleDAT upgrade (sorry, I just had to fit that in somewhere)

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:16 pm

Well, Steinberg got swallowed up themselves in the end

(by Pinnacle). It surprises me as well sometimes that CW is still in business and even bringing out new product regularly. Even though they cater for a niche market, they still seem to sell quite a bit.

Post by **garyb** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 11:19 pm

they'll be o.k........i think the red knobs made the face look like '90's fender(or sunn) stuff,a little cheap.the yellow....but neither has much to do with a good synth..

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 12:06 am

I personally liked the original prototype drawing the best - grey and black - simple and clean.

<img src=http://namm.harmony-central.com/Musikme ... -large.jpg>
 <img src=http://namm.harmony-central.com/Musikme ... der-lg.jpg>

It's too bad Creamware is not releasing more information on the specs and features. There are so many unanswered questions, it is hard to get excited about Noah. Maybe there really isn't anything to get excited about in reality and that is why they haven't provided any real details. But hopefully they are on the verge of releasing some very interesting details that will get people onboard with this thing and consider it.

[ This Message was edited by: huffcw on 2003-03-15 00:31 ]

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 6:11 am

I think the weirdest thing is that there is still no actual release date for the thing on CW's site!

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 10:46 am

I heard from a dealer that it is going to ship May 1 (in the U.S. at least). However, unless we get more details, I will not be even considering it. I can't see how Creamware would expect anyone to spend that much money on something without knowing eveything possible about it.

kimgr · Post by **kimgr** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 3:31 pm

What do you wan't to know ?

Kim.

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 11:24 pm

Here are a few questions to get started:

1. What can we expect as far as polyphony for each intrument?

2. How will it integrate with Pulsar systems? Can we load any SFP device, and will the Modular III work with Noah? If we purchased a device for our Pulsar system, can we use it with Noah without having to purchase the device again?

3. Is it using new Sharcs - or the same ones that are currently used in Pulsar cards?

4. When using Noah as a USB audio device, what type of latency can we expect? Are their any compatibility issues with the USB drivers (as far as USB chipsets, motherboards, etc.)? USB audio can be a tricky thing to get right, so some information about Noah's performance would be nice to know.

[ This Message was edited by: huffcw on 2003-03-15 23:26 ]

kimgr · Post by **kimgr** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 4:45 pm

#1: I can only give you the info that has been made available in public. (In brochures, dealer infokit & Creamware forum.)
But when assembling those sources, you have a pretty good idea...

#2: Just as with SFP releases, you can count on Creamware's engineers to be busy optimizing the software up till the very last moment.

1. What can we expect as far as polyphony for each intrument?

Approx. the same as on a Pulsar II on the standard Noah, double that on the EX version.

2. How will it integrate with Pulsar systems? Can we load any SFP device, and will the Modular III work with Noah? If we purchased a device for our Pulsar system, can we use it with Noah without having to purchase the device again?

That's kind of hard to answer since the SFP version that supports Noah doesn't exsist yet. From what I can tell in the brochure & dealer info, it seems you get a special editor with Noah, not a full SFP.

3. Is it using new Sharcs - or the same ones that are currently used in Pulsar cards?

The same.

4. When using Noah as a USB audio device, what type of latency can we expect? Are their any compatibility issues with the USB drivers (as far as USB chipsets, motherboards, etc.)? USB audio can be a tricky thing to get right, so some information about Noah's performance would be nice to know.

See #2.

Kim.

huffcw · Post by **huffcw** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:57 pm

Sill need more details, but I appreciate some of the information you were able to provide. More information will hopefully be coming from Creamware soon.

Since the standard Noah uses 7 sharcs and the EX uses 11... I assume that 3 sharcs are dedicated to running effects, 4 sharcs to running synths (add another 4 sharcs with the EX version to double the synth capabilities).

Also, since it is a combination of 3 and 4 sharcs, it makes me wonder if Creamware used the recycled Luna and Pulsar I cards in the Noah. (from the upgrade promotion that they did a while back)

kimgr · Post by **kimgr** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 8:14 pm

Also, since it is a combination of 3 and 4 sharcs, it makes me wonder if Creamware used the recycled Luna and Pulsar I cards in the Noah.

Ha-ha-ha-ha... That's very funny

Did you ever try removing a dsp from a multi-layer pcb ??? It's a lot cheaper to buy new chips, me thinks...

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:31 pm

WHAT!!!???? The same DSP chips? You've got to be kidding!

Now I know that CreamWare is a company made of lunatics. The polyphony on Pulsar II is pathetic. Five voices and you're maxed out, especially with something like MiniMax. A Scope card is only *just* starting to get comfortable. (I have 13 DSP chips, and I still don't have enough polyphony compared to CPU-based synths). Why isn't Noah using new chips? There is absolutely NO reason why it can't. They've had enough time to get new chips from AD.

Polyphony is something that CW just isn't addressing. It is quite appalling at this point in time. The cards are way too expensive now for the polyphony you get from the synths. It is making the cards less desirable.

I think the whole Scope platform is pretty professional now except for two remaining issues, and those are the WDM drivers and the polyphony. CreamWare has continued to ignore both of those. I was 95% sure that they'd have new Sharc chips in Noah. It baffles me to see that they don't.

I'm quite worried now about the future of Scope -- are they ever going to get new SHARC chips?

Shayne
http://www.shaynesworld.com

Shayne White · Post by **Shayne White** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:32 pm

By the way, that was just a rant...thank you Kim for providing the information. It does clear up some matters!

Shayne

Post by **garyb** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:02 am

it's a synth,not a cure for world hunger and war.

King of Snake · Post by **King of Snake** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 4:38 am

Also keep in mind original Minimoog and Pro-One were monophonic anyway!

The Lightwave get quite a bit more voices on a pulsar 2 of course since it's wavetable not VA. I don't know how the six-string fares with polyphony, and nobody can say anything yet about the "B-2003" organ.
All in all, it would be nice to see CW move to new sharcs sometime, but it would most likely make the product that much more expensive. Polyphony may not be it's strongest point, but it does have feautures that virtually no other synth has: multiple synthesis engines in one, expandability, audio interface, plus it has a vocoder, and mighty interesting looking filterbank and other fx. It's the same as with Pulsar, if you look at what all this stuff would cost you in seperate hardware, NOAH isn't so expensive