from spliffy @ cw-forum: How to make PulsarII work on a VIA

Mo · Post by Mo » Wed Jun 20, 2001 4:24 pm

hoia good people, here is some hope for all these humble via-users

found in the official creamware forum.
<hr>

Hi there fellow Pulsarians,

Pulsar II doesn't work reliably on VIA chipset motherboards right?
WRONG!!
Here's how this sick little puppy convinced his Pulsar II card to run reliably on a MSI 694D Pro motherboard alongside a SCSI card and a Delta1010 audio card.

The MSI 694D Pro mobo uses the Apollo Pro 133a Chipset. When I first installed the Pulsar II card it would only run in the first 3 slots. It seemed fine until I pushed the DSP usage over 25%. Then I would be harrassed by "PCI-Master Overflow" messages. If I pushed the DSP to 75% I would get an error every 30 seconds or so. I had tried everything. BIOS settings, slot juggling, RAM & software tweaking.
Nothing seemed to help. In fact most BIOS changes made it worse.

Finally I remembered the utilities I was already using to tweak my RAM settings. This pair of utilities, called 'Wpcredit' and 'Wpcrset' allow you to alter the chipset registers themselves, much the same way the BIOS does.

I used these utilities to change 2 registers. These are:

"Arbitration Mechanism Priority"

changed from CPU/PCI to PCI, and

"PCI-Master Read Caching"

changed from disabled to enabled.

Either of these 2 settings on their own fixed the problem! I enabled both. After changing these registers I could run Nuendo at 75% CPU
plus PulsarII at 95% DSP (mostly reverbs). If I push the computer CPU any more than 75% windows becomes very sluggish.

[...]

I left the computer looping like this for 12 hrs without one error!!

Instructions on how to use these 2 utilities can be found at

http://viahardware.com/memtweakguide1.shtm

These instructions are for tweaking memory settings, but they will explain how to use the utilities. The utilities can be downloaded from
http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA002374 ... nload.html

You will have to also get the correct WPCREDIT PCR Files for your motherboard chipset. The WPCRSET program can still be obtained at

http://ftp.vector.co.jp/pack/win95/hard ... crs120.exe

The registers I changed for Apollo Pro 133a Chipset were:
Register: 70 HEX: 44 (PCI-Master Read Chaching > ENABLED)
Register: 75 HEX: 21 (Arbitration Mechanism Priority > Change from CPU/PCI to PCI)

Remember EITHER of these changed registers fixed the problem on my motherboard. For different manufacturers and different VIA chipsets these register & HEX numbers may be different. You will have to use WPCREDIT to find the registers called 'PCI-Master Read Chaching' and 'Arbitration Mechanism Priority' and change them as required. You can change registers in WPCREDIT while windows is running, which makes tinkering very easy. Once found, you should enter these settings into WPCRSET, then they will be autoloaded every time windows boots.

I know this seems complicated. Truthfully this tweak ISN'T for the PC newbie. By changing the wrong registers you may even damage your motherboard (although unlikely). [...]
Besides, if you can work out the Pulsar environment you should be able to use these utilities.

By the way, the fact that changing 'Arbitration Mechanism Priority' from CPU/PCI to PCI fixes the problem tells me that this problem has more to do with the way the VIA chipset controls the PCI bus, rather than being a PCI BUS bandwidth problem. The PCI devices themselves obviously have a better idea of how to run the bus than the VIA chipset does.

I hope this can be of help to some of you using VIA chipset motherboards.

Your fellow Pulsarian, trying to make the road a little less rocky,
Spliffy.
reaktor@mailbox.as

<hr>

so i hope that´s really THE solution, there was already some very positive feedback in the cw forum. it seems to work

Mo

[ This Message was edited by: Mo on 2001-06-20 17:27 ]

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 8:21 am

Hey Mo,

Ingo @ Creamware actually has been suggesting such a thing for about a year, so this isn't too new. It DOES help, but even with all the tweaks, I am confident that the VIA is substantially less efficient at managing the PCI bus traffic (== less bandwidth).

So, I'd be curious to hear how many PT2020S's someone with a ASUS P3V4X (KX133 chipset, earlier VIA) motherboard can get before and after the tweaks, and also a newer board like the ASUS A7V (KT133, newer VIA...)

You can get the PT2020S demo to test at <a href=http://www.earlyfirst.com>earlyFirst</a> in the demos area. It would be cool to see results posted here as well, so people know what to expect, and if the difference is enough to justify keeping the motherboard, or switching to an i815EP or AMD760...

Mo · Post by Mo » Thu Jun 21, 2001 5:02 pm

if that tip is not new - why it´s not here?

i really think it´s not the bandwidth. the bandwidth of the bx isn´t higher (32bit @ 33mhz).
it´s the handling of the priorities on the bus (called arbitration), that´s why the nForce is my future favourite... not just the higher bandwidth - it has a new concept for that issue (isochronous data transfer).

the pci bus is at all wide enough. but often it comes to struggles between different apps on that bus (don´t know if i translate right) and the bus comes out of time (uah... but you know what i mean, do you?

)...
so only increasing that bandwidth is not the solution.
btw, there are many people actually working with pulsar and via chips. yes, they do

possibly they do not stress the pci bus that much, but mainly they have tweaked it right, i´d guess.

after all i wish that someone of creamware would tell us a bit about that issue... we just have those collected experiences from the last years

they developed that stuff... at least it would be nice to recieve more than a mail like "the cusl2 is currently the best mobo for pulsar" as reply to questions about the preferred bus architecture, and topics like bus arbitration and such... i think, my mails are always replied by the creamware cleaning crafts...

have fun
Mo

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 8:33 pm

you're probably right, the bandwidth is theoretically the same between the chipsets (at least Kx133 vs BX vs 815) so perhaps more accurately throughput starvation. either way, it means the data isnt moving back and forth efficiently enough for however the CW stuff is designed.

it was good for you to put this up in the tips & tricks section though too so more people find it, now someone post their results :]

mano · Post by **mano** » Tue Jul 24, 2001 4:23 pm

AAAAAAAAAAA

It works!
I can't believe it!

I only changed the 'Arbitration Mechanism Priority' from what it was to "PCI"

I haven't fully tried to push the pulsar II yet, But at least I am able to load the STS4000 without a glitch, which wasn't possible before.

I will run some more tests and hopefully...

THANK YOU

-mano

Noctulius · Post by **Noctulius** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 2:48 am

The link to get WCPRSET (http://ftp.vector.co.jp/pack/win95/hard ... crs120.exe) doesn't work.

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:22 am

Google works though.

Noctulius · Post by **Noctulius** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 2:37 am

Google? What is it?
If someone knows where I can get wpcrset (I already downloaded wpcredit from the advised url) please give me the link...

[ This Message was edited by: Noctulius on 2001-12-07 02:42 ]

Micha · Post by **Micha** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 4:18 am

http://www.msihardware.com/WPCRGuide.htm

Noctulius · Post by **Noctulius** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 4:49 am

Thanks a lot, Micha.
I suppose, the utilities themselves work on every VIA mobo, and the only think that differs is pcr file, right?

Micha · Post by **Micha** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 5:15 am

yep. These files hold the information for the specified chipset. You'll make it

try http://www.viahardware.com/wpcreditkt133.shtm
for assistance.

[ This Message was edited by: Micha on 2001-12-07 05:29 ]

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 6:40 am

"Arbitration Mechanism Priority" changed from CPU/PCI to PCI,

Ignoramus me wants to know: If I change this in my CUSL2-C with i815 chipset setup, does it make the same difference as with the Via chipset?

Might be a question some of us would like to have answered...

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 8:43 am

No, CUSL2 actually works out of the box like it's supposed to, you only need this kind of tweak on a VIA.

paulrmartin · Post by **paulrmartin** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 9:30 am

Thanks, Sub!

cannibal · Post by **cannibal** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 10:01 am

A word of warning:

Changing Arbitration Mechanism Priority may cause your Windows not to boot, as I just came to notice. Windows stops loading in BSoD reporting something about not being able to connect to boot device. I have no information at least for now why this happens, but it could be a problem with ATA/100 controller.

Anyway, in case this happens to you, you can start Windows in Safe Mode and then disable the WPCRSET.

Regards,
cannibal

Noctulius · Post by **Noctulius** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:06 am

Did it all. Doesn't help. Seems like my comp is unhelpable...

Max3020 · Post by **Max3020** » Sun Dec 23, 2001 6:55 pm

As many others i do have also the Pulsar2. and the damn mobo asus P3v4x via apollo pro133a chipset,and have the same problems with PCI CAPACITY LIMIT REACHED messeges.! this messeges comes up when i just use the sts2000p or sts3000 device. i don't even need to have any other module in the board loaded
,so the messeges appear after 1-3 minutes.
i downloaded the wpcre , wpcrs and pcr for 133a.
i did all the setups what was written.
But the thing is just before all this i had another problem:
i was working with pulsar and closed the cpu that night. just the next day i opened it but could not start on 98SE anymore it got frozen. and i started in win2k but then i got the message
"installation error!
Hardware version 30 detected. This hardware requires
a software update. Please consult the installation guide."

and i uninstalled everything(all softwares new and old) many times, also the old version 2.04 also the drivers. but still the same message which is really strange.!
i also cleaned all the registers but still the same.!
so it doesnt let the software become start after install.!
i think i have to format c: again wich normally isn't that full at all.!

After i will try to use the tweaks for apollo133a.
i don't know does anyone had the same problems aswell?
pls. help me about this.!!

subhuman · Post by **subhuman** » Sun Dec 23, 2001 10:07 pm

Darth Via Returns!!

Something I've been rambling about for years: <a href=http://www.tech-report.com/onearticle.x/3244>Darth VIA Returns</a>

Max3020 · Post by **Max3020** » Wed Dec 26, 2001 9:35 pm

Hi Again!

First of all thanks for Mo who gave here the solution for via chipsets.!
i really had a lot of problems as described above.!
but now everything is different like:

i formatted C: and did install windows XP pro version.
but still when i installed pulsar2 i got the messages again "installation error" after trying to start pulsar.
i solved the problems with installation error messages(above message) with changing the pci port for my pulsar2 board.
the pulsar2 card was accepted. and did work as before,but when trying to put in sts3000 getting messages like
"pci capacity limit reached." again!

so now was the time to try the settings described above of "MO"

I did this both settings described of MO:

Register: 70 HEX: 44 (PCI-Master Read Chaching > ENABLED)
Register: 75 HEX: 21 (Arbitration Mechanism Priority > Change from CPU/PCI to PCI)

and YEAAHHHH it worked!!
now i can get 4 sts2000p in or can work with sts3000 and can force the limit till 95% and still works good without saying those annoying messages PCI CAPACITY LIMIT....

and everything(all other applications) seems to work very fine with XP!

And from cubase audio settings-system i never could open the asio control pannel while being in the asio scope settings.

but now it works!

everything seems to be very fine now.!
but it comes to hear some crickles crackles when using pulsar. i did try to tweak a bit the XP however i'm new in it,but i got the tips and tricks for xp from the tips&tricks part.! and it helped aswell. i think it needs some more tweaks for audio wich i dont know and hopefully some experts will write also about this problems.!

thanks for everyone who is in here.!!!

mars_technic

http://www.mp3.com/marstechnic

Valium · Post by **Valium** » Sun Dec 30, 2001 8:00 am

Hi there,

I need tweaking on my VL6 mobo, and I d/l everything except WPRSET 'cause the links aren't working anymore. I desperatly need this tweaking, I'm working on a 32 asio track project and I keep getting these pci-errors.

Can anyone help me get this utility?

thx in advance