EMagic Logic for windows to be discontinued!

The Z Station · Post by **The Z Station** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 4:50 pm

On 2002-07-02 16:44, subhuman wrote:
$299 for an inferior product on top of paying for Logic doesn't make me feel any better Z Station....

As a Logic user, it seems that way, but I'm reserving my opions on SX until I acutally start fiddling with it. Just very optimistic here... But basically, for Logic's MSRP, I'm getting Cubase SX for free!

[ This Message was edited by: The Z Station on 2002-07-02 20:35 ]

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 6:41 pm

Q: What does a painter's brush cost?

A: A few bucks!

Q: What does a Mac cost?

A: About twice as much as a PC!

Q: Why do Macs cost twice as much?

A: Because you have to buy them from Apple!

Q: Why did Apple kill the Mac Clones?

A: Because they are greedy bastards!

EarlyFirst · Post by **EarlyFirst** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 7:27 pm

Well I'm sad for all the Steinberg guys who will have to wait longer for a working version. I've been to all the forums and at this point the Creamware is the least buggy software of them all...And now that Steinberg has no competition on the PC who's to make them work any faster.. That was the main reason I went to Logic stability ...

I'll wait for my 5.2 install it and probably stay there as it will always work

some of my friends still use an Atari with notator/ hell he can even send me projects..
is that even possible with cubase?

The Z Station · Post by **The Z Station** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 7:30 pm

On 2002-07-02 19:41, braincell wrote:

Q: Why did Apple kill the Mac Clones?

And, that's why Apple has a miniscule share in the computer industry. A closed-ended proprietary system! And all those anti-MS people want to open source Windows?!!!!

But, on the other hand, Macs, to their credit, are highly specialised on the multimedia field (to which the Amiga coined the very word, and, remember the Video Toaster?) and they do dominate in that market. And the multimedia companies that chose to run their apps on the Mac have matured. Like a fine aged wine!

I'm not a proponent of either Mac or Windows, they both have their pros and cons, one of the reasons why Windows is widespread is that the PC hardware architecture it runs on is open to 3rd party developers and you can find Windows apps everywhere where as MacApps are quite sparse. I wonder what would have happend if Apple let the MacClones survive?

Remember the good 'ol Commodore 64? (I still run my C128 once in a while for good times' sake), it was mass market that put them to the top (at least for a time) until Commodore wrecked their own ship!

[ This Message was edited by: The Z Station on 2002-07-02 20:33 ]

Kamurah · Post by **Kamurah** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 8:05 pm

I can't believe we are debating over proprietary hardware software issues on a CREAMWARE BOARD......

That's just too classic.

Braincell. Price is relative. Supply and demand.

What is your real beef? All I am hearing is a non-structured rant based on emotion.... I know you are pissed man, but Apple isn't the AntiChrist.

If you don't think that some other company (and I am not talking Steinberg) will now work TWICE as hard to get your business now that Emagic is gone....then you aren't seeing the big picture.

In economics it's called Comparative Advantage. Competition is good. It keeps markets from stagnating and innovation progressing. I don't think you Logic users are gonna be left out in the cold....oh nosiree! And I don't think this will be a time for Steinberg to be slothful and sit on its laurels.

Any software maker that wants those 66,000 users can have em....they just have to win you over.

Ye of little faith.....you'll see.

Cheers

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 8:10 pm

Wait a minute Z You said

"Macs, to their credit, are highly specialised on the multimedia field "

I think this is purely and simply a big fat myth. I haven't heard one person in this group who claims that the Pulsar runs better or worse on a Mac, furthermore I have many graphics applications (including 3D) that run quite well on my Asus/Intel PC. I've seen Macs in action recently and quite frankly I could not notice a great difference in performance or ease of use. I wish people would stop spreading rumors that simply are not true.

The Z Station · Post by **The Z Station** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 8:43 pm

It is true that PC's have equalled, even in some cases, surpassed the Mac's performance with regards to multimedia apps, but those companies who write multimedia (video, audio, whatever) programs, like Emagic, releases for the Mac paltform first, then the PC's after.

Yet, in the industry, Macs are still highly regarded.

I wasn't referring to Pulsar's performance on either platform, just simply Macs are still used in most of the commercial multimedia industry, though PC's are steadily gaining grounds.

KAMURAH: Yup, this event has thrusted us back to the old OS platform debate, again! It's impossible not to though.

Maybe, if only CW will develop their own sequencer and audio post (new tripleDAT 24), We probably wouldn't be having such a fit, at least not to this degree, and not have this debate go on and on again. There are lots of PCLogic users that felt betrayed by Apples acquisition. It cost $money$ and time to switch platforms (acutally, there isn't a grave reason why to switch DAW platforms now), but if you must, ya hafta fork more $$ and invest time to learn another DAW environment. In some cases, that's actually good as you become proficient using multiple DAWS! - Much more marketable as a producer/engineer don't you think?

[ADDENDUM]
I'm partial to Windows because of CreamWare and tripleDAT (which won me over to Windows). This is more of a reverse situation as CW supports the PC version much more quicker than the Mac.

Now, on to a more serious problem... I NEED MORE DSPs!!!

[ This Message was edited by: The Z Station on 2002-07-02 22:04 ]

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 9:00 pm

Industry is very slow to change so I wouldn't put a lot of weight into what the so called experts use.

It says on the Emagic website:

"Technology with Soul"....

Whatever!

otter · Post by **otter** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 2:20 am

oh, we´ve seen this before:

When Atari bit the dust, there were some movements in the market trying to concentrate software on the platform. is still can remember the advertisements like "you can do this an that ONLY with Atari" . As we all know, it was a lie.
To me this is the beginning of the end.
I´m afraid apple won´t make it.

btw i use PC / SX but always thoght mac/logic is equivalent.

Rob van Berkel · Post by **Rob van Berkel** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 2:44 am

On 2002-07-02 17:45, Kamurah wrote:
Name a task that you can accomplish on a PC that a user cannot do on a Mac. Give an example of how your PC enriches you life in a way that no Macintosh can.

How about building your own gear and keeping it up-to-date with little as possible finacial resources. Never heard ppl do that on the Mac platform. For me, THAT is a way the PC enriches (or dis-enpoors) my life.

So for me the choice of tools DOES matter. And yes, one of the reasons to buy the number one product and brand has a lot to do with continuity.
Sorry to sound bitter, but that's how I feel right now. On the other hand it's a sad, a very sad thing to see some PC vs. Mac discussion developing in this forum. I'm not against, I'm just sad...
still dressed in black...
Rob

Michaelj · Post by **Michaelj** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:09 am

I both use PC and MAC.
I like them both, for different things.
I still think its bad that Apple close the logic deal for PC users.

I guess its business.
just like Gmotors by Ford or whatever !!!

But for Video and Audio use.
I never would use the PC... sorry.
its just to slow and and to many conflicts
with motherboards and graphic cards and soundcards and......so on.
it still goes to sloooow on a PC (mpeg and creating DVDs). I go much faster than a Pentium 2Ghzh with a dual 800.

Music then, .. there is more trouble also with a MAC when you use to much 3dparty stuff,
just like a PC,
but its so more easy to get every thing to work,
maybe the film and musicindustry are totaly dumb . ??
or...there must be a reason
ex: many high film creating programs
from Silicongraphics will go on MAC OS X
only...
This operativ system is great,
and PC user should forget about the old MAC OS,
and try the unix MAC OS X

creamwares stuff !!
I love creamware,
and it works just so fine for me , but still its not fully
a MAC written program I think,
I wait for the X version.

but still I love it

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 9:38 am

This part about the new mac os is a totally mute point because there already is a 64 bit version of windows xp and it's going to be common for high end multimedia applications in the future. Do you really think apple can compete with microsoft in the long run?

It's very telling that while Apple stock is down 15% they are spending millions on their stupid tv ads and buying emagic.

Personally I don't care what color or shape my computer is. That is ridiculous.

Kamurah · Post by **Kamurah** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 10:30 am

Of course my statement was misread....I should have expected that.

OK...here goes:

So far in my Mac, I have added / installed /customized / whatever:

512MB RAM
one ATA 40GIG HD
one Adaptec SCSI adapt card
two Creamware cards

one Digidesign audio card
one serial adapt instead of modem (i.e. removed modem and installed serial card)
one CDRW drive
Rackmounted it
plugged in two USB hubs (7 and 4 ports)
use firewire
use ethernet hub

Am getting ready to upgrade the graphics card....but haven't decided on which one to get yet.

now one of the only things I haven't done (YET) is upgrade the processor. But guess what? I CAN. Sure I can. Just like you PC guys....several companies make MOBO upgrades for Macs. I can even buy a different case to put the thing in if I want....but I happen to like the case on my G4 so it will stay. I use a NEC monitor, a Logitech trackball, and an IBM keyboard. How much more component friendly does the Mac need to be?

As for the price thing: again, price is relative. VALUE is what matters. To me, my Mac has value. Of course it won't to a PC user...and vice versa. Get it? Relative.

Look, I don't care what computer you use. You can use a Mr. Coffee machine with a processor installed for all it matters. (although I WOULD think you were pretty cool if you could pull that off)

Just please don't post how much you hate Apple and Macs because you feel bitter over Emagic. It's purely an emotional response and doesn't make any sense.

Don't want a Mac? Fine. Don't buy one. It's that simple. I don't want a Mac only world. Competition is good, and it is what keeps innovation flowing and markets strong.

Besides.....
If it was a Mac only world, we'd all be bored because the Problem Solving thread would only have a few posts in it.

Cheers

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 10:44 am

when i think about masturbating, i take a deep breath, down a cold glass of water and the idea magically goes away by itself

GonZoft · Post by **GonZoft** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 11:28 am

Hey, Kamurah man, thanks for the details man, can you also give us some info as to the size of other parts of your body man, thanks a lot man, keep on the good work man.

John Cooper · Post by **John Cooper** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 11:40 am

Gentleman can we please avoid turning the Emagic bitterness into religious platform wars, and personal attacks?

Thanks
-John

RedSun · Post by **RedSun** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:30 pm

This is exactly the kind of things that made me buy a Midisport 8x8 instead of a Unitor8. Choosing a vendor specific solution is always a big risk. It sucks big time but it happens quite frequently in the software industry.

Now that we all have learned a lesson in "Free market economy", let's see how we can take advantage of this situation:

1- The product you have now works just as well as it did a few days ago and still has a few years of life left in it. You can still use it to maximize your productivity.

2- Use this opportunity to learn new ways of doing things. Changing your work paradigm is often a great way to expand your creativity in new directions.

3- Develop your adaptation skills. It takes time and can be a pain but learning to use new hardware/software(or whatever) will make you more comfortable in any working environment. You will also be more versatile and useful to your customers(if you don’t have any, consider yourself as a top paying and demanding customer).

Feel free to add to this list!

RedSun .:.

The Z Station · Post by **The Z Station** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:42 pm

On 2002-07-03 13:30, RedSun wrote:
Now that we all have learned a lesson in "Free market economy", let's see how we can take advantage of this situation:

1- The product you have now works just as well as it did a few days ago and still has a few years of life left in it. You can still use it to maximize your productivity.

2- Use this opportunity to learn new ways of doing things. Changing your work paradigm is often a great way to expand your creativity in new directions.

3- Develop your adaptation skills. It takes time and can be a pain but learning to use new hardware/software(or whatever) will make you more comfortable in any working environment. You will also be more versatile and useful to your customers(if you don’t have any, consider yourself as a top paying and demanding customer).

Feel free to add to this list!

RedSun .:.

The Z Station · Post by **The Z Station** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:06 pm

On 2002-07-03 13:30, RedSun wrote:
Now that we all have learned a lesson in "Free market economy", let's see how we can take advantage of this situation:

1- The product you have now works just as well as it did a few days ago and still has a few years of life left in it. You can still use it to maximize your productivity.

2- Use this opportunity to learn new ways of doing things. Changing your work paradigm is often a great way to expand your creativity in new directions.

3- Develop your adaptation skills. It takes time and can be a pain but learning to use new hardware/software(or whatever) will make you more comfortable in any working environment. You will also be more versatile and useful to your customers(if you don’t have any, consider yourself as a top paying and demanding customer).

Feel free to add to this list!

RedSun .:.

Here here! I Can't agree more!

Free market begets competition amoung companies. Each outperforming the other, hence qualty and performance of their products leaps with quantum stride!

Actually, I believe that with Emagic now being one of Apple's prominent DAW, Steinberg will work hard to keep their PCSX users' loyalty. This will also be an incentive for them [Steinberg] to keep up or try to "up one" on MacLogic. Hence, better things ahead!

Expanding your DAW lexicon will make you much more versatile, marketable, and in demand for any music porject environment!

I think it's a win-win situation!

Dr.T's demise 13 years ago did not hinder my music creativeness. I still use their sequencer (and I still prefer KCS Level II v3.5 over Logic or Cubase) - now, talk about an oprhanware!

I'm still sticking with my Logic 5 Plat becuase I think it's more than adequate to perform the tasks I need. Plus, I'm getting the hang of it now...

One of the reasons I'm getting Cubase SX is becuase of their Crossgrade offer - I'm practically getting it for free! And, I get to keep my Logic! So, why not?! This will also expand my services and be more compatible with other studios out there!

"Do you use Logic or Cubase?" Yes, I have both!

Cool eh?!

Go and make music, regardless!

[ This Message was edited by: The Z Station on 2002-07-03 17:31 ]

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 2:20 pm

John Cooper:

I was a little out of line. I take back what I said about the the people in the new Mac ad campaign looking like morons. I really had nothing against the Apple company until they did this, only Apple users, but again that is off the topic.

We will never know the real reason they did this. Was it because windows users needed more tech support like they said? or was it because they want Windows/Logic users to buy a Mac? It's not very nice to blackmale someone and I highly suspect most of the 66,000 will migrate to Cubase eventually.

It is highly possible that Apple one day will sell Emagic. I suspect that if this happens Emagic will once again support Windows or whatever the dominat system is at the time. It might be difficult to recapture the Cubase users then though.

It seemed like Logic had a lot of momentum going. I heard mostly good things about it from people who knew.