MIDI SYNC (NOT SYSTEM LINK)

[fraz]

Hi I've asked a while back about system link which I will be looking at again shortly but this only deals with Cubase.

Other software I have is FL Studio and Orion which are good apps and not to mention Live which don't work on system link.

The two PC's I've got are now close to each other in the same room. To the best of my knowledge I've got enough MIDI cables-coaxial (spdif) and optical (adat) to get the job done.

One PC is master and one is slave - Just need a bit of help to cut through the rubbish that goes on in my head sometimes confusing things too much........

Then when that's sorted its time for system link but I have all the info for that and emails from someone here on the board (forgot his name sorry)

Anyhow fire away and lests get this sorted without wasting too much time.

One PC Xite-1 other pC scope pro/pulsar 2 -

[garyb]

midi sync should be easy, just send midi from one system to the other through the hardware i/o. you can also use something like Copperlan to connect the two boxes.

this is different than audio clock sync, which is what master and slave refer to.

[fraz]

This copperlan looks interesting. There may be a possibility here - I've got some c5e points in the house-with a router upstairs-minus one port from an indirect lightening strike on my bt homehub....that wasn't surge protected but that's another story....

All I would need is a gadget to take two Ethernet cables into one cat5e/ethernet connection then both pc's are online-if there was another pc there would need to be another router (small one perhaps) then the copperlan could be used. I've got USB MIDI interfaces thankfully....so all should be well- How much is the copperlan?

Also there is an A16 Ultra (the new one) to be connected to the Scope/Pulsar 2 PC which has word clock onboard so with this added to the Xite-1 there is wordclock on that too. I won't ask any more questions on this just now but feel free to add what you can for info/help. I'll be concentrating on getting a successful system link working then I'll come back to this-

On the face of it many options-

Would any software sequencer be able to use word clock? -for example Orion (synapse-audio) doesn't have anything like word clock in the option menus - what you may say though is that word clock is only at the scope/xite level - is this correct?

[garyb]

word clock is not related to midi in any way. it's a different clock.

[fraz]

On a different note the Fx Teleport looks great too- knew about this a while back- Its free now to use too!

The system link is great for the two PC's but is only Cubase (which is fine) but others like FL Studio/Live etc.....can't be used in the same way which is where FX Teleport could be useful with other software- If it works it will offer more options for the CPU hungry plugins.

[fraz]

Another way to re-phrase this question would be to ask what the best method of synchronisation would best be used between two computers for MIDI & Audio sync???-

So far Cubase is working with system link and anything that rewires etc.....but lets say there are two versions of FL Studio (which doesn't support VST System link what is the best way to sync the MIDI and the audio so all plays back in sync?

It could be other software or any potential DAW program.

Main reason for asking is to cover the bases for this or learn about what is necessary to achieve this. Hopefully one method would suit all applications for sake of ease and cross compatibility but maybe some software may not be capable ??? - or maybe it wouldn't matter

Off the top of my head I've heard of : MTC, MMC, wordclock, VST system link (Steinberg)-.

Obviously the hardware would remain the same...... Scope.....!!!

Then after your input I can decide if some apps are not worth trying to sync. I think I'm also trying to ascertain the degree of difficulty in this too.

For VST system link it was quite hard and there were two methods ADAT or SPDIF. I think ADAT was preferred as it allowed for more channels to be used in each direction - 7 I think plus 1 for sync whilst sync via SPDIF/AES/EBU was not as flexible though I've not tried or managed this way to sync but am happy with the ADAT way.

Its worth a bit of a discussion but it could work out to be more trouble than its worth.

[fraz]

The Xite-1 has wordclock as does one of the A16 Ultras the mk II

On the Scope Pro / Pulsar 2 system - this does not have word clock on but there will be another A16 Ultra mk II connected for I/O which does have word clock so could this be used to achieve what was posted above?- If yes then it should not be too difficult?

[garyb]

word clock has nothing to do with midi or song position syncronization.
it's how two different digital audio devices keep track of what order the packets of data go in, since they are not always sequential.

for syncing sequencers, audio, and video sources, there are a number of standards. whatever your hardware and software both understand is the best one.

[dante]

First tell us why you are using 2 x PC's ?

If you want to use one as a sequencer driving the other as a MIDI expander, you dont need sync. Just hook em up with MIDI and Lightpipe and your good to go - lightpipe will sync itself as long as you have a bi-directional hookup ( eg 2 lightpipe cables).

Now, if you want to run a sequencer on each computer - thats where it gets trickier. In that case you could set one as a MIDI slave to the other.

[fraz]

I'm using two computers for VST System link which is working via ADAT - I wanted to use it to see how it worked and combine the power of more than one computer.

Yes the idea would be to use two sequencers....

[fraz]

First tell us why you are using 2 x PC's ?

If you want to use one as a sequencer driving the other as a MIDI expander, you dont need sync. Just hook em up with MIDI and Lightpipe and your good to go - lightpipe will sync itself as long as you have a bi-directional hookup ( eg 2 lightpipe cables).

Now, if you want to run a sequencer on each computer - thats where it gets trickier. In that case you could set one as a MIDI slave to the other.

Dante,

The connections are already in place for VST system link via ADAT - however there is not currently a MIDI port synced via the two computers. This could be done via scope within the poject or a simple USB MIDI interface. One computer would be master then and the other would be slave.

For use of two sequencers are you saying that both MIDI and lightpipe (ADAT) connections are necessary???

[dante]

In its simplest form, system link only needs digital connection, not MIDI.

Again it depends on why you need 2 computers. Is it because you want to host VST instruments on one, and Ableton live sounds on the other ?

In that scenario I would use MIDI to sync the 2 sequencers together and ADAT to carry the sounds of one daw over to the other which was acting as the main mixer. Effectively using one of the daws as a multi timbal MIDI expander with your arrangement entirely on the other.

System link between two cubase machines is actually hijacking the ADAT port to carry control signals rather than just audio signals. In this case you just use ADAT and half of your arrangement is on one computer and half on the other.

Well, that's what I make of it, not having actually used it myself. Others may enlighten further......

[djmicron]

I used system link back in 2002 and i wouldn't suggest to use it.
Systemlink uses one channel of digital audio to stream mtc and midi and i think the better way to use more than one DAW today, is to use one computer as main workstation where you run the main sequencer application and the other computers to run just the synths/efx without sequencers to be played, just use it as real time outboard and control it over midi, or midi over ethernet, such as copperlan.
If for some reason you need to run more sequencers, then you have to sync the transport over mtc or something similar as explained in this good article:

http://tweakheadz.com/sync-mmc-mtc-smpte/

FX teleport was a good choice to stream vst instruments over network, but it's not a transport sync utility.

[fraz]

I'll have a look at the Tweakheadz article djmicron - thanks....

Then I can see what other options there are

[fraz]

OK - For starters I just need to have a 1 in-1-out MIDI interface connected on both computers and see what I can get out of this alone with the hosts that I've already got -

[fraz]

This is to answer Dante's question- ......why are you using two computers?- ==just to be awkward - I think that's spelt wong....

I've got an Xite-1 and Scope Pro/Pulsar 2/Power Sampler - collected over the years though the Power Sampler isn't connected at the moment.....

its to use both sets of cards in two computers to access the I/O for a few hardware synths and some hardware MIDI controllers. It allows more stuff to be connected to try to get the most out of what I've got. It would be far simpler using just one computer but I feel I'll be learning lots (I'm no pro at this) and getting the most out of what I've got. To use two computers opens the possibilities up including decreasing my sanity at the same time..... .......

So far the system is shaping up Xite-1 has 32 I/O but 8 in-8 out is taken up with VST system link so there will be 24 in-out plus 7 I/O with 1 I/O for system link - If SPDIF/AES/EBU was used for system link I could use all 32 I/O but would lose the SPDIF/AES/EBU so I'm going for whats best. The Scope Pro/Pulsar 2 system is 32 I/O with the same description as above.

If anything happens to the PCI cards another Xite system could be used but I only have 1 X A16 Ultra MK I with z-link and the current Xite systems still have Z-link on but the A16 Ultra MK II has MADI but Xite does not - but I should be OK hopefully until this is resolved.

That's why I have two computers plus some useless info as well..........then there is more VSTi possibility with more RAM in one computer for newer plugins - Its trying to keep all options open and working round stuff........

[dante]

Fair enough, although you can run Scope PCI and Scope XITE on the one system, running 2 systems gives you more native CPU.

[Eanna]

Hi fraz, you should check this post too:
http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31882

[fraz]

Hi fraz, you should check this post too:
http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31882

Hi Eann,

Gary B suggested Copper LAN too. It looks interesting... and someone else suggested Vienna Ensemble Pro 5 with windows 7 upwards...over LAN and apparently it works really well.

[fraz]

Fair enough, although you can run Scope PCI and Scope XITE on the one system, running 2 systems gives you more native CPU.

Yes Dante that's correct but I feel better having them spread over two systems...