Scope 5.1 bug free when?

[siriusbliss]

Yes, XTC /VSTim is pretty limiting in many ways, and is not optimal to what Scope is capable of.
WAY more useful with the DAW running INSIDE Scope rather than the other way around.
My opinion is that XTC was designed around the decade-old limitations in most DAWs that is really no longer there.

Loading a Scope plugin like a VSTIM plugin is not an optimal use of the Scope devices.

People should try recording through Scope and route out and back into their DAW and you'll even hear the difference.

Greg

[petal]

Loading a Scope plugin like a VSTIM plugin is not an optimal use of the Scope devices.

People should try recording through Scope and route out and back into their DAW and you'll even hear the difference.

Greg

That may be true when it comes to sound and flexibility, but to me there's also the question about workflow and automation, especially while creating new ideas, and here I simply find it easier and faster to have the synths and effects inside the sequencer, like you do with native stuff.

But maybe it's just because I started out with Reason I feel this way. Fact is that Ideas simply comes easier to me in a "synth inside sequencer" environment than the other way around.

Cheers,
Thomas "looking forward to Parseq, Scope 6 and open scope"

[siriusbliss]

Loading a Scope plugin like a VSTIM plugin is not an optimal use of the Scope devices.

People should try recording through Scope and route out and back into their DAW and you'll even hear the difference.

Greg

That may be true when it comes to sound and flexibility, but to me there's also the question about workflow and automation, especially while creating new ideas, and here I simply find it easier and faster to have the synths and effects inside the sequencer, like you do with native stuff.

But maybe it's just because I started out with Reason I feel this way. Fact is that Ideas simply comes easier to me in a "synth inside sequencer" environment than the other way around.

Cheers,
Thomas "looking forward to Parseq, Scope 6 and open scope"

If your DAW can handle routing out/back from 'external' hardware, then you can set it up this way 'inside' your sequencer, and not have to deal with the latency imposed by XTC.

Then you can mix 'out' through Vinco, etc. and back into your DAW.

Sort of a hybrid old school, new school approach.

G

[petal]

Yeah that may very well be true, but still, that hybryd old school, new school approach doesn't really sound
like the workflow I'm looking/hoping for

[dante]

But maybe it's just because I started out with Reason I feel this way. Fact is that Ideas simply comes easier to me in a "synth inside sequencer" environment than the other way around.

I use Reason as well as Cubase, all inside Scope. Then a second Scope routed to the first Scope. Reason inside Cubase, Cubase inside Scope, Scope inside Scope, routed back to Cubase for mixdown. Works a treat.

[Bud Weiser]

Yeah that may very well be true, but still, that hybryd old school, new school approach doesn't really sound
like the workflow I'm looking/hoping for

That´s because the VST stuff became the center of your "studio"/workflow.
You now think everything has to integrate in VST,- but the S|C DSP system is comparable to a piece of hardware like the studio consoles in the "oldschool" studios were, plus all the insert and aux FX as well as some tone generators,- all connected to the mixer.

Like p.ex. my hardware instruments like Minimoog, Oberheim etc. don´t integrate as VSTis into my DAW applications, SCOPE devices urgently don´t have to too.
Which VST/AU DAW mixer will give you over 80Bits accuracy when summing signals and stream down the busses back to your native DAW application while providing FX and dynamics like XITE does ?
The answer is NONE.
What´s the fuss sending MIDI form elsewhere to SCOPE devices and record into your DAW ?
As a comparison,- is setting up a hardware instrument and record it to a recording media (formerly reel-to-reel and now harddrive) really "oldschool" ?
Is "workflow" more important than result ?

I´m running Reason rewired to Presonus Studio One v2 or Reaper 4.2x plus my hardware synths/modules all connected to XITE mixer and back to DAW,- it´s easy as pie and sounds great.
In fact, I deleted all the XTC/VSTIM device dlls from my vstplugins folder and never looked back.

Before I was aware of the XITE,- I thought I´d have to buy a NEVE summing device or such to make that reality,- but XITE gives more flexibility and an additional assortment of devices on top,- all in 1 HU.
Now, I just only have to buy a A16mkII and I´m done,- and when ParseQ will see the daylight, we´ll integrate these few VSTis and VSTfx we need into Scope and not Scope into VST/AU.
I´ll feel better w/ this for sure and buying more and more VST plugins already stopped here.

"Scope 5.1 bug free when?" is possibly a obsolete question as we all know, there is no bug free software existing at all.
We´ll probably ask that for SCOPE 6 too and always asked for any native DAW application and VST/AU plugin out there since we used these.

Can´t wait for SCOPE 6 because of Copperlan integration and OSC support though ...

Bud

[wouterz]

Here is an idea: A VST plugin that can control a Scope device using CopperLan. This way you can automate the Scope devices inside your DAW without having to use MIDI. So no manual assigning MIDI controller, but with high resolution and you don't have the 128 controller limit and no latency (the audio stuff stays inside the Scope realm).

[djmicron]

Here is an idea: A VST plugin that can control a Scope device using CopperLan. This way you can automate the Scope devices inside your DAW without having to use MIDI. So no manual assigning MIDI controller, but with high resolution and you don't have the 128 controller limit and no latency (the audio stuff stays inside the Scope realm).

i don't think sequencer midi sources and destinations can handle hi res midi.
They are limited to 0-127 range even if you use copperlan, at the end of the flow, the midi messages must be sent to scope midi drivers to control scope devices.

[wouterz]

Here is an idea: A VST plugin that can control a Scope device using CopperLan. This way you can automate the Scope devices inside your DAW without having to use MIDI. So no manual assigning MIDI controller, but with high resolution and you don't have the 128 controller limit and no latency (the audio stuff stays inside the Scope realm).

i don't think sequencer midi sources and destinations can handle hi res midi.
They are limited to 0-127 range even if you use copperlan, at the end of the flow, the midi messages must be sent to scope midi drivers to control scope devices.

But Sonic Core is going to implement CopperLan support in Scope 6 which means that you can control Scope devices using native CopperLan messages (which are hi res) and thus bypassing the hole MIDI realm.

[djmicron]

ok, i missed it was related to scope 6

[jksuperstar]

Here is an idea: A VST plugin that can control a Scope device using CopperLan. This way you can automate the Scope devices inside your DAW without having to use MIDI. So no manual assigning MIDI controller, but with high resolution and you don't have the 128 controller limit and no latency (the audio stuff stays inside the Scope realm).

yes, yes, yes!

Is there a simple toolkit that is recommended to do this type of thing?

Maybe it can first talk with a Copperlan server, which then pipes the data to a MIDI loopback or directly to a Scope MIDI/Sequencer Source.

Then when Scope 6 arrives, we remove the redirect to MIDI? Is that possible?

[dante]

I'd guess that when Scope 6 arrives, hopefully ParseQ will arrive as well. And if that happens, it will offer the highest degree of integration between DAW and Scope. Any other DAW (Cubase etc) / Scope combination will seem clunky in comparison and/or require workarounds (like 3rd party VST's that transmit hi res MIDI etc) that wont work as smoothly.

If the above doesnt turn out to be true, it could be hard to see any reason for ParseQ to exist.

[Sounddesigner]

Every single bit of software I have ever used has bugs.
F1 cars are the best performing cars in the world, but they are temperamental, they would be. They are pushing the f@%¥€ng limits of what's possible.
But if you can control it, master it, then it will work like a dream.

Well put! Great analogy with F1 car and SCOPE!

[CopperPhil]

Here is an idea: A VST plugin that can control a Scope device using CopperLan. This way you can automate the Scope devices inside your DAW without having to use MIDI. So no manual assigning MIDI controller, but with high resolution and you don't have the 128 controller limit and no latency (the audio stuff stays inside the Scope realm).

yes, yes, yes!

Is there a simple toolkit that is recommended to do this type of thing?

Maybe it can first talk with a Copperlan server, which then pipes the data to a MIDI loopback or directly to a Scope MIDI/Sequencer Source.

Then when Scope 6 arrives, we remove the redirect to MIDI? Is that possible?

Hi jksuperstar,

Well... this kind of "proxy plugin" controlling CopperLan stuff already exists for the Alyseum MS-812 (VST and AU). The good news is we decided at CopperLan to create a universal proxy plugin, able to mimic the remote application (anything exposing parameters on the CopperLan network actually) by replicating its whole set of parameters to the plugin's host. So you can control and automate anything in high resolution from your favorite DAW/sequencer. There is no need of "CopperLan server" to do that. There is no server in CopperLan, it is a distributed network, each entity is self-describing. So imagine you have multiple CopperLan applications or hardwares spread on the studio/stage and connected through Ethernet, you can control anything from a single sequencer if you want, or from multiple delocalized controllers also... you are totally free

The universal proxy plugin will be distributed end of summer, with CopperLan V1.1.

In conclusion, no need of special development. Scope will be also controllable using this universal proxy plugin. Anyway, if you want to create your own plugin, you can always do that using the CopperLan SDK and a set of helper classes making the most of the work

[jksuperstar]

Hi jksuperstar,

Well... this kind of "proxy plugin" controlling CopperLan stuff already exists for the Alyseum MS-812 (VST and AU). The good news is we decided at CopperLan to create a universal proxy plugin, able to mimic the remote application (anything exposing parameters on the CopperLan network actually) by replicating its whole set of parameters to the plugin's host. So you can control and automate anything in high resolution from your favorite DAW/sequencer. There is no need of "CopperLan server" to do that. There is no server in CopperLan, it is a distributed network, each entity is self-describing. So imagine you have multiple CopperLan applications or hardwares spread on the studio/stage and connected through Ethernet, you can control anything from a single sequencer if you want, or from multiple delocalized controllers also... you are totally free

The universal proxy plugin will be distributed end of summer, with CopperLan V1.1.

In conclusion, no need of special development. Scope will be also controllable using this universal proxy plugin. Anyway, if you want to create your own plugin, you can always do that using the CopperLan SDK and a set of helper classes making the most of the work

That, is more than I needed to hear. I'm very excited for the arrival and integration CopperLan, not only with SCOPE, but the rest of my studio/bandmates. Thanks for taking some simple ideas and making them accessible. And more importantly, taking advantage of the technology we use to make music, and making it less of a time sink to use with all of our imagination!

[Bud Weiser]

So imagine you have multiple CopperLan applications or hardwares spread on the studio/stage and connected through Ethernet, you can control anything from a single sequencer if you want, or from multiple delocalized controllers also... you are totally free

The universal proxy plugin will be distributed end of summer, with CopperLan V1.1.

In conclusion, no need of special development. Scope will be also controllable using this universal proxy plugin.

That´s most excellent news I didn´t expect to read here NOW or soon !
Thx for the info.

Bud

[dante]

Will Copperlan work over WiFi ?

[wouterz]

Will Copperlan work over WiFi ?

From http://www.copperlan.org/index.php/qaa

Is CopperLan doing wireless too?

Since CopperLan does fine with Ethernet, it flows equally well through Wi-Fi. For most uses requiring instant reaction time, the added latency due to data encryption and error correction inherent in all wireless communications may not be acceptable; nevertheless, non real-time applications such as editing could certainly benefit from being cable-free.

[dante]

Cool. Will work, but probably w/ similar lag as iPad mixers to DAW.

[CopperPhil]

Cool. Will work, but probably w/ similar lag as iPad mixers to DAW.

yes indeed.

we do not recommend using WIFI for life or musical performance... Generally, WIFI offers quite acceptable communication at home, or in a location covered by at most a very few WIFI networks. The more you have WIFI access points and/or devices, the more you have problems... we had experimented very bad demos last year at the Musikmesse, it was quite impossible to get our iPad/iPhone CopperLan applications connected to the rest of the network. This year, we used a last generation Linksys WIFI router with dual radios using different frequencies and a very efficient noise immunity algorithm. Our demos at NAMM and Musikmese were perfect! we did not hesitate to suggest to visitors to install the application, get connected to our network, and play with it... even the area was covered by tenth of WIFIs. So we were confident in the ability to get connected to the network, but the measured latency was around 300ms!!! it's definitly too high for playing music or to trig events, but it may be ok to control lights, mix audio, change parameters continuously...

You can't trust WIFI. you can prepare a performance in the studio, play it successfully again and again, then fail on stage due to something, somewhere... perhaps another WIFI around, or metalic structure, or anything that can disturb your WIFI access point... it's not predictable, not reliable.