Hello Z!
I am very excited about my new setup. I finally gave up on my Gigabyte EP43-DS3, which gave me nothing but trouble, and traded it for an ASUS P5Q-SE2. As I had already been experimenting with Win7-32 bit on my laptop (BTW- Scope5 PCI via Magma works extremely well on 7), I decided to finally switch from XP.
So far, it's all wonderful. The XITE is working much better, no IRQ sharing even without disabling anything (still crashes the system if I plug / unplug a USB CD-ROM while working), and all programs and plugins seem to enjoy the new environment. Of course, having 4 GB RAM is a big difference (the Gigabyte mobo wouldn't boot with more than one RAM stick). I do have some glitching when opening / closing windows, but I'll get into that this afternoon (now reading how to tweak Win7 for DAW).
I do have a question that I'd appreciate if someone can answer. As you know, there was a limit in XP to the number of USB MIDI drivers one can have at a single time. After I installed a Nocturn and an AKAI LPD8 on the old system, I totally screwed it up, lost my SAC USB driver, and never managed to get it working again. The problem, I guess, was an ESI 8x8 USB MIDI interface that connected to almost all hardware. I setup my new system without it, as I might have enough ports as it is, but I am delaying patching up the MIDI, because this will not be as elegant (several devices on a single port, MIDI thrus, reconfiguring MIDI channel numbers, etc...), and I am not sure how well the XITE MIDI will handle big data streams. All would be easier if I used the ESI, but I am not very willing to risk it at this point. Does anyone know if this limit has been lifted on Win 7?
Thanks in advance!
T
Has the USB-MIDI driver limit been lifted on Win 7?
Re: Has the USB-MIDI driver limit been lifted on Win 7?
Well first for reference sake the Xp page from RME related to the '10 midi device driver limit' was moved (it's now here in case anyone tries to google for that.)
Second, in Xp MIDI drivers were often tied to WDM drivers, so when the number of midi devices was 'improved' in sp2 & sp3 there was still some ceiling of 32 ports related to when things were tied to the WDM drivers (some interaction I never ran into so wasn't clear on.) This meant that if you used usb-devices that were 'class compliant' you were less likely to run into a 32port limit, but might still encounter a 10-device limit (sp3 was supposedly able to 'fix' this for some as well but I know I've cleaned my midi devices at least once recently on my Xp box which is on sp3.)
In Vista & Win7 *supposedly* that WDM limitation was removed and you are *supposedly* able to have any number of ports and in theory more than 10 devices. But people are running into issues (another thread here on RME's forums) even in Win7 so I'm really not sure.
I think that if you have enough 'class compliant' USB devices you may still be safe, I've got 10 ports via 2 usb midi i/o (Midisport & MOTU Micro-express), the midi i/o on my RME Multiface plus several outboard devices (2 keyboards, BCF2000, Akai MPD32, Novation launchpad & novation nocturn) and many of those offer 2-3 midi ports each. While technically that's only 9 devices, the BCF is now class-compliant (no dll in its driver) and the Akai & novation stuff is as well so the only devices that require any WDM-related payload are the RME & multi-i/o midi boxes (midisport/motu.) Under XP if devices moved around I would have to utilize the method outlined by RME (link in first sentence) but under Vista/Win7 I can't recall 'unused' USB-bound midi drivers preventing more from being loaded (though I do also try to remember to plug things into the same usb port if possible.)
Sorry I don't know the actual answer, I tried to google for info but found the same unclear info from MS dating back to Vista, and unfortunately they tend to focus on consumer audio issues (or OEM related issues) when they talk about such things more than the info we care about as end-user musicians. Perhaps someone else knows?
Second, in Xp MIDI drivers were often tied to WDM drivers, so when the number of midi devices was 'improved' in sp2 & sp3 there was still some ceiling of 32 ports related to when things were tied to the WDM drivers (some interaction I never ran into so wasn't clear on.) This meant that if you used usb-devices that were 'class compliant' you were less likely to run into a 32port limit, but might still encounter a 10-device limit (sp3 was supposedly able to 'fix' this for some as well but I know I've cleaned my midi devices at least once recently on my Xp box which is on sp3.)
In Vista & Win7 *supposedly* that WDM limitation was removed and you are *supposedly* able to have any number of ports and in theory more than 10 devices. But people are running into issues (another thread here on RME's forums) even in Win7 so I'm really not sure.
I think that if you have enough 'class compliant' USB devices you may still be safe, I've got 10 ports via 2 usb midi i/o (Midisport & MOTU Micro-express), the midi i/o on my RME Multiface plus several outboard devices (2 keyboards, BCF2000, Akai MPD32, Novation launchpad & novation nocturn) and many of those offer 2-3 midi ports each. While technically that's only 9 devices, the BCF is now class-compliant (no dll in its driver) and the Akai & novation stuff is as well so the only devices that require any WDM-related payload are the RME & multi-i/o midi boxes (midisport/motu.) Under XP if devices moved around I would have to utilize the method outlined by RME (link in first sentence) but under Vista/Win7 I can't recall 'unused' USB-bound midi drivers preventing more from being loaded (though I do also try to remember to plug things into the same usb port if possible.)
Sorry I don't know the actual answer, I tried to google for info but found the same unclear info from MS dating back to Vista, and unfortunately they tend to focus on consumer audio issues (or OEM related issues) when they talk about such things more than the info we care about as end-user musicians. Perhaps someone else knows?
Re: Has the USB-MIDI driver limit been lifted on Win 7?
Thanks, Valis. I have been researching as well, but info seems a bit vague. I've read people claim that this limit was already lifted on XP SP3, but I know for a fact that is not true.
I agree that it would be better not to install another MIDI interface, thing is I have a lot of keyboards, and I'd like to keep the MIDI connections as simple as I can, if possible, one port per instrument.
I'm going to give it a bit of thought, and see what I can come up with.
Cheers,
T
I agree that it would be better not to install another MIDI interface, thing is I have a lot of keyboards, and I'd like to keep the MIDI connections as simple as I can, if possible, one port per instrument.
I'm going to give it a bit of thought, and see what I can come up with.
Cheers,
T
Re: Has the USB-MIDI driver limit been lifted on Win 7?
I decided to install the M8U, as I couldn't think of a better way to patch it all up. As soon as I installed it, the Bs3x got thrown out...
I disabled one of nocturn's drivers (Automap Propellerhead), as I'm not currently using Reason, then rebooted and voila: the Bs3x is back!
So I would say that, in terms of USB MIDI management, Win7 is not much different from XP.
Cheers,
T
I disabled one of nocturn's drivers (Automap Propellerhead), as I'm not currently using Reason, then rebooted and voila: the Bs3x is back!
So I would say that, in terms of USB MIDI management, Win7 is not much different from XP.
Cheers,
T
Re: Has the USB-MIDI driver limit been lifted on Win 7?
Good to know, I'll have to make darn sure I don't accidentally replug something into the wrong usb port.
Re: Has the USB-MIDI driver limit been lifted on Win 7?
Well, there seems to be a problem with the M8U and Win 7. It happened like I said, it went into the system, and kicked the bs3x out. But it wasn't really working, and it kept crashing Live when I tried to use those ports.
I will try to find out if the M8U is compatible with Windows 7, maybe it's just that, but the fact remains that, while it was installed, I couldn't get the Bs3x recognized (although it had a "ghost" driver in device manager.
I will try to find out if the M8U is compatible with Windows 7, maybe it's just that, but the fact remains that, while it was installed, I couldn't get the Bs3x recognized (although it had a "ghost" driver in device manager.
Re: Has the USB-MIDI driver limit been lifted on Win 7?
I had read that ESI had good Win7 support (ESI & MOTU are the only 2 that seem to have more than tiny i/o things on the market now) but this was via class compliant drivers (USB audio spec subsection for midi) and some have mentioned that Win7's default class compliant driver (and Vista's) have some timing issues. Certainly nothing that would prevent functioning thouh I wonder what the device id 'compatible ids' are listed as under task manager (one of the property pages under each device in device manager lists several devices strings...) I guess there's some possibility that ESI & Wave Idea used the same USB implementation (chip) I didn't differentiate guid/devid enough?
Otherwise perhaps just too much clutter? The symptom of the old 10 device limit in Xp was that whether a device was in use or not, if present in the registry it could prevent a new one from loading.
Otherwise perhaps just too much clutter? The symptom of the old 10 device limit in Xp was that whether a device was in use or not, if present in the registry it could prevent a new one from loading.
Re: Has the USB-MIDI driver limit been lifted on Win 7?
Valis, I just got an e-mail from ESI saying that it is currently not supported in Win7, but that they are working on a new driver, so future support will come (this is the old M8U, not the current version). This could be the reason why it wasn't working, but maybe it doesn't explain why the Bs3x was kicked out.
There is no Win7 driver for the Bs3X, but it is recognized by the system (not as a generic driver, but a named one).
On a much better note, I found that MIDIOX, MIDIYoke and Loop.Be also work well in Win7, which is quite a relief, too.
T
There is no Win7 driver for the Bs3X, but it is recognized by the system (not as a generic driver, but a named one).
On a much better note, I found that MIDIOX, MIDIYoke and Loop.Be also work well in Win7, which is quite a relief, too.
T