Modular IV on SC shop.

[iSiStOy]

... Except maybe Xite owners?

[sonicstrav]

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[iSiStOy]

I think I see what could be happening with 50% cut in price for some of us:

from sonic|core website, regarding Xite Christmas upgrade offer:

SCOPE: 500 EUR rebate / PULSAR: 250 EUR rebate
+ Coupon for two plug-ins for 50% off

Maybe that's the thing?

[HUROLURA]

The Mod IV DO provide some really good modules:
- the CZ Osc modules (one of the Osc Type I most missed on Scope !!!), P1 Osc, ...
- the filters from the Pro-One , Pro-5 and the Minimax Ladder Filter

So the choice between Flexor 3 and Mod IV is really hard (especially as I have 3 host system with scope and Mod III now)
Beside I was also really curious about Zarg and SpaceF modules.

Flexor 1.5 is the only Scope plug-in I bought new to add to a card as other came bundled with new or used card.
The only plug-in I bought from CW (except some of my card) was the Pro-12 for my NOAH Ex and the ... ASB.
The only thing I bought from SC so far was the B4000 ASB (but at a real bargain price !!!)

I guess I will dedicate one of my scope system to Modular stuff and buy all these through time.

Adern offer an upgrade price for Flexor 1.5 to Flexor 3 upgrade which I feel tempting (99 € for all these new modules).
But having tried the trial Mod IV will just make me feel I miss something without it.

I think the only solution for me is to get both this year ... to keep on waiting for a more affordable Xite unit I could buy afterward. I just looked back and added all the scope related stuff I bought and noticed I spent more than the Xite-1 price for all my Scope stuff. But this took me more than 4 years to accumulate all this stuff. That's also the reason why I would have been really interested in an hardware upgradable Xite solution providing you mean of expanding the DSP number just as what was possible with Scope PCI boards (or what was offered by UAD or TC DSP card). It would have been easier for me to get the basic unit at first and then upgrade it afterwards.

What is also important to notice is the long lifetime of any Scope plug compared to the lifetime of any VST plug or other music software (I still remember the price I paid for logic 4 + soundiver and the price it would have cost me to upgrade to all the versions of it untill now loosing the soundiver during the upgrade ...).

So now, I am starting to spare money for Xite-1 and a few new plugs (on top of which Flexor 3, Mod IV and maybe some Zarg and SpaceF plugs ...). I would like to give my money to people providing some great enhancements to the platform so I think SC, Adern, Zarg and SpaceF are the one who deserve this ...

My 2 cents

CheerZ

[koalaboy]

I'm ready to buy Modular IV just as soon as they release the 64-bit drivers. Until that point, it's not really much use to me, and whilst I don't mind paying the full price, I want to know it will work with my main system.

[sonicstrav]

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[koalaboy]

£288 for Flexor 3 (£117) + Mod IV (£171) (shame Share-it gives such a crap currency conversion)
Prob is worth it compared to buying Omnisphere..........

Flexor didn't seem too bad until I realised VAT wasn't included in the price. I already have Omnisphere though, so that's not a decision I have to make

[Shroomz~>]

I take your point Shroomz, it's definitely a subjective thing. But my subjective view is just as valid, and I doubt I'm the only person that sees it this way. Like I said, I'm not gonna throw a tantrum over it, just making my feelings known. I'm just very surprised and disappointed.

Like Mr.A said, it comes down to economic realities... if I was being brutally honest, I don't really NEED Mod4 - I'm not desperate for its functionality. I have Flexor3 FFS, and I have various analog and digital synths and FX, I don't really NEED more.

But if there was a fair upgrade (by that I mean 50% or 60%) I'd just buy it without thinking about it, more to support SC than anything else.

My main point is that SC is shooting themselves in the foot. It's annoyed me enough that I'm not going to install Scope5 (again, where's the benefit for me? I don't care about some DAS EQs), and the more people that don't install Scope 5, the less plugins SC will sell. It's just bad marketing and lack of consideration for loyal customers.

Hi Dark, good to speak to you again!

It's definitely a difficult one & I actually think you're quite accurate with some of what you've said. However, I also think we've really been spoiled over the years. I can't actually count the number of times we've had cheap or free upgrades on Scope, simply because they've been so numerous. Even buying cards brand new like sharc & I have done, I've no complaints at all with the upgrade policies, since the v4.5 offer was killer & even before that (going back years) we were able to upgrade our software for relatively small amounts of cash depending on the hardware we'd bought & the software it came with. Without boring anyone, the bottom line is that we got some fantastic deals & I won't forget that. Now we've moved on & SC are again spoiling us. They don't NEED to support old customers of the platform, but it seems that they are.... By support, I mean support, not giving us something for nothing!

[erminardi]

We have 2 PCs with Scope in the same studio, why we must pay 2 times the whole price of Mod IV?!?!?!

[Mr Arkadin]

We have 2 PCs with Scope in the same studio, why we must pay 2 times the whole price of Mod IV?!?!?!

...er because you have two PCs with Scope perhaps? As much as i would like to see an upgrade offer i don't see how owning two of something means you only buy one for both - how do SC (or any other company) know how you are using them? Some software allows multiple instances on other computers, but even they usually require you to move the dongle from machine to machine. You could be using two machines separately and earning money from both, so why shouldn't SC earn some money?

[darkrezin]

I think his point is that it would be a lot fairer if there's a half-price upgrade (200EU vs. 400EU). The lack of an upgrade basically devalues Mod3, making it mean nothing. But Mod2/Mod3 users paid for the development of probably more than 80% of Mod4, so it kinda rankles that new customers pay the same. I'm all for giving SC money but it's got to be a fair upgrade. Look at Adern - firstly an extremely low price for early adopters, and subsequent very fair upgrade prices. This is 1 guy doing the DSP from scratch, and god knows what he lost in the CW insolvency. I know who I would rather support.

If SC really thinks that Mod3 users are the only market for Mod4 purchases, then they are showing a very worrying lack of ambition IMHO. And it's alienating existing users and turning them into 'legacy users'. It concerns me for the future of the platform if this is the way SC is going - no lessons seem to have been learned from the old days. I really hate to say all this stuff, but I can't pretend to feel any different.

[Mr Arkadin]

i think his point was why should he have to pay twice, regardless of price. OK if it was €99 it would be easier to buy twice (or once in my case), but you would still need to buy it for two systems - how else could you do it and keep it fair for other users?

Sadly you can't please all the people all the time. In this instance i feel that at €99 for an upgrade more people would buy it without thinking twice - it's the proverbial no-brainer. At €198 people pause and think: do i really need it? Many will say no, including me, but i don't feel hard done by.

[darkrezin]

Well I can't speak for erminardi, but what I got from his message that he was annoyed that he would have to pay the full price x2. Buying it for 2 systems isn't a problem from my point of view, but everyone paying the same price is what doesn't make sense to me.

[darkrezin]

In this instance i feel that at €99 for an upgrade more people would buy it without thinking twice - it's the proverbial no-brainer. At €198 people pause and think: do i really need it? Many will say no, including me, but i don't feel hard done by.

Exactly my point... I'm not at all bothered about not having Mod4. But it's just gonna backfire for SC... there's no motivation for me to install Scope 5 (how do I know my Mod3 is gonna keep working well?), and no motivation to buy new plugins like Gizzmo because they will most probably need v5.

[JoPo]

Did you think about the guy new in Scope... He'll buy the mod IV, thinking he'll have the latest version... But what can you do with just mod IV ?

Not much ! It is not very fair..
I was sure it was not going to be an update price : NOBODY will buy mod IV alone !! You cannot do much things with just mod IV ! So everybody must have at least Mod II or III to be able to build something... So SC would sale ONLY update prices because even the ones who don't have any modular must buy Mod II or III and then update to IV.

SC has not any other choice to sale it full price.

[Mr Arkadin]

there's no motivation for me to install Scope 5 (how do I know my Mod3 is gonna keep working well?), and no motivation to buy new plugins like Gizzmo because they will most probably need v5.

It's unfortunate for you and i sympathise - for me having those reverbs for free with v5 is a no-brainer (as it happens i bought the 4.5 upgrade when it was €98), but i can see that just getting the DAS EQs is not a deal maker. Maybe if there was a deal for people who bought the reverbs after a certain date to upgrade to v5 for €98 that would be fair, but i can see why any company wouldn't want to do this - it would get uber-complicated very quickly.

The only difference in ModIII seems that some people (not me though) get invisible cables. i'm sure that will be fixed.

[next to nothing]

It's that time of year again.

In all honesty, install Scope 5. There's no reason not to if you own it. If you don't own it, don't want it and don't need it, then you are apparently happy with what you got.

I think 198 euro is fair for mod 4. The only proposal i would make is to make a scope 5 bundle, say you get scope 5 and mod 4 for 300 euro. That should help drag in those who didn't put money into the SFP OS this century and therefore isn't eligible for a free upgrade. I guess the bugfixing will be done for v5,and 64bit/osx-support will probably be v5 only.

I also suspect Gizzmo not only requires Scope 5 but also Xite-1, but thats just speculation.

[darkrezin]

Did you think about the guy new in Scope... He'll buy the mod IV, thinking he'll have the latest version... But what can you do with just mod IV ?

Not much ! It is not very fair..
I was sure it was not going to be an update price : NOBODY will buy mod IV alone !! You cannot do much things with just mod IV ! So everybody must have at least Mod II or III to be able to build something... So SC would sale ONLY update prices because even the ones who don't have any modular must buy Mod II or III and then update to IV.

SC has not any other choice to sale it full price.

No clue what you're talking about dude... Mod4 comes with Mod3+extra Mod4 modules. So someone who didn't buy Mod2/3 can buy Mod4 and have everything... but people who paid for the development of Mod2/3 have to pay the same. I bought quite a few plugins which were subsequently bundled free with everything - ProPack (remember this? ), Vectron, STS5000, Prodyssey and more - which didn't annoy me at all. But not giving an upgrade price for Mod4 is nothing but a 'fuck you' to me.

Next to nothing - yep, I'm happy with what I've got. My point is it's a losing situation for SC because it means I'm now off their radar and they can't sell me any plugins.

[next to nothing]

Well first off you haven't paid Sonic Core a dime for the earlier mods. You have paid Creamware. They are gone.

Second, losing your money isn't nececarily a loosing situation. it's a risk, and has probably been analyzed quite thourougly. IF it means sales is dropping more than 50% than what they would have been if sold at 98 euro, then "yes", but costs of logistics and support is double if we both buy it for 98 compared to just me buying it for 198.

You should also consider those using modular these days to be quite hooked by it, seeing this as a welcome addon. these most probably have mod 3 allready, and buy it if it is 98 or 198. those not using it will probably not see what the big deal is, not all of them would bother putting 98 euro for the upgrade. maybe some start using the earlier modulars to see what the fuss is about anyway. that way they either hate the consept or start exploring it and actually feel a need for flexor or mod IV and happily fork out an extra hundred for the extra modules

So if this become the situation, the real "loss" of sold units might be down to, say, a pessimistic 20%? that way, losing your money makes them a nice profit

[darkrezin]

OK point taken, it's speculation either way to say if it's a good move or bad move in business terms. Only time will tell. I've made my thoughts known to Holger anyway, so fuck it I'm done.

I suppose we all have our own thresholds when it comes to what we find acceptable. I guess for me this was the trigger to get off the train. It's cool, I got off at a nice place For everyone else who's still on it, I hope you have a nice journey.