Experiences/advice on creating PC/Xite-1 setup

[hesnotthemessiah]

Thought I would start a thread so that fellow Zers could post their experiences and advice regarding setting up a PC and Xite-1. Might be useful to others who need help getting their Xites working with their PCs or are looking at purchasing/upgrading their PCs.


My PC:-

Scan 3XS SA-i7 PowerDAW http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ShowSystem.asp?SystemID=935
Motherboard: Gigabyte EX58-UD4
CPU: Intel i7 975 Extreme 3.33GHz 6.4GT s QPI
Memory: 3GB (3x1GB) Corsair XMS3 DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600) 240 Pin Non-ECC Unbuffered CAS 9-9-9-24
NVIDIA Graphics: 2 x 512MB Gainward 8400 GS
Power Supply Unit: 650W Be Quiet Dark Power PRO BN073 Modular PSU
Operating system: Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition SP3

All latest motherboard and BIOS updates.
Scope PCI v5.0.2603 plus latest patch.

PCI/PCIE slots:-
2x PCIE16x
1x PCIE4x
1x PCIE1x


PC will not startup with Xite card in PCIE1x slot so have to use Xite card in PCIEx4 slot.

With Scope5 started the PC slows down to almost a complete stop. This can happen whilst Scope5 is loading the startup project or after a few minutes. Scope5 has hung when it has been left on in the background whilst I was on the internet, when I was using various devices within Scope, when adding a device to the Routing Window, when scrolling the Scope5 screen in Classic Mode and when the Scope5 startup project has loaded up and I have left it to make a cup of tea.

With Scope5 loaded, if I then load Cubase5, I get the same problem with the PC slowing down to almost a complete stop. I can't remember this happening whilst Cubase5 is loading. It happens either as soon as I select the VST Connections Window and then activate either an audio in or out (to/from Cubase5 and Scope5) or when I select the Xite midi in on the Track list.

I used Cubase5 with Scope4.5 on my other PC with no problems. I replicated my Scope4.5 startup project over to Scope5 on this PC. So I know the ASIO in/outs that I have selected and the midi in/out setup with my Scope5 startup project are correct for use with Cubase5.

I have tried using just 1 graphics card and tried each one individually. I have changed my graphics cards settings using 16 bit, 32 bit and all the Hardware Acceleration settings.

These results have come with no other cards, apart from the graphics cards, in the PC.

By slowing down to almost a complete stop I mean that I CTRL-ALT-DEL and sometimes the Windows Task Manager appeared after about 15 to 30 mins other times I waited for about this time with no Windows Task Manager appearing and then I just manually reset the PC.

PC works fine with an Audiophile 2496 PCI sound card and the other 2 PCI slots filled with a Powercore card and a Magma Chasis (one of my best purchases ever!!) holding another 3 Powercores and 4 UAD1s. Infact I am amazed at how much PCI bandwidth I can get - no problems with them all running full steam!

The PC is currently with Scan who kindly arranged collection of the PC and Xite for free. They have had the same results as me even when trying another Gigabyte EX58-UD4 board. I have been in constant contact with Pete at Scan who is very helpful and knowledgable about all things PC and audio. Pete is currently trying out another board or two and I will let you know what he finds out ASAP.

I have also been in touch with Shorn at Production Room who supplied my Xite. Shorn has also been very helpful and friendly and asked me how I was getting on with the Xite on Friday. I explained my situation and he emailed me what Sonic Core had sent him:-


Sonic Core
Workstation Configuration
DATE: July 2009


POWER SUPPLY
---------------
be quiet! BQT E6-450W Straight Power
or
be quiet! 450W Dark Power


MAINBOARD
---------------
Asus P5Q-E Socket 775
http://uk.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=ogZlrSeVzUh9MKLO


CPU
---------------
Intel Core2Quad Q8200 2330MHz 4MB Cache 4Core FSB1333 boxed


RAM
---------------
2 x 2024MB DDR2RAM Kingston Value
(do not use Kingston HyperX RAM!
possibly unstable power consumption)
http://www.valueram.com/desktop/memory.asp


SYSTEM HARDDRIVE
-------------------
1 x 250GB 3,5" Seagate ST3250310AS SATA2 8MB


DATA HARDDRIVE
---------------
(RAID 1 / mirrored)
2 x 1000GB 3,5" Seagate ST310005N1D1AS SATA2 7200rpm 32MB


GRAPHICS CARD
---------------
Asus 256MB 7300GT/Silent/HTD passive PCIe
or
Asus 512MB 8600GT/Silent/HTDP passive PCIe


PERIPHERIE
---------------

DVD Burner LG GH-20NS SATA SD black
TEAC Floppy 3,5" 7in1 CardReader USB 2.0 black
Case Cooler Papst 8412 N/2GLE

Logitech Keyboard Ultra X Premium OEM
Logitech RX250 Optical Mouse black OEM

OPERATING SYSTEM
Microsoft Windows XP Professional 32Bit multilinguage SB + Service Pack 3

SCREEN
22" TFT ASUS VW222U 2ms DVI Wide


CASE
----------------------
19 inch / 4 U, black

Both me and Shorn thought it might be helpful if this was posted on the PlanetZ forum. From all accounts, this would be Sonic Core's testing rig for the Xite - but please don't take my word for it!

[dawman]

What a serious hassle you are enduring. The whole PCI-e audio thing sounds like trouble on the UD4.
Most builders sware by the UD series, and the trouble you are having was similar to the trouble they had using the new Intel X58 boards. PCI-e/PCI was a no go w/ audio.
The fact that you have to use PCI-e 4X makes me wonder if all of these extra slots are causing trouble..
Thanks for sharing the information as I am really looking forward to upgrading, but I will be using a much cheaper, less powerful configuration, so I will keep my fingers crossed.
I am using the ancient DP35DP / E6850 w/ a EVGA GeForce 6800 w/ 128MB's & PCI-e 16X.
The XITE-1 uses one of the PCI-e 1X slots.
I use no other cards and have chosen to stay w/ XP32bit Home SP2.
I am also using the 3GB PAE Switch and have my memory for samples maxxed out.
I can only say that GaryB has done all of my O.S. tweaks and builds, and after 4 years of 24/7 and 6 night gigs, I have never experienced a single problem.
So naturually I will continue to fly him to Vegas for new builds.
But we installed the XITE-1 over the phone within 4-5 minutes and I was immediately going to town loading it.
I have used it w/ zero troubles since the second week of May '09. May 22nd '09 I started gigging with it and couldn't be happier.
I hope to see others here w/ X58 PC's sharing their builds since that is the new trend for builds.

Good Luck Brotha' Man and keep us posted.

[cortone]

hntm,

This is a serious bummer for you. It is beginning to sound like a chipset or PCI-e implementation problem. Hopefully this thread will encourage people to post info about working set ups so that we may be able to see a trend. It's especially crazy since you get incredible PCI performance. I would expect that chipset to be better optimized for PCI-e than PCI.

My set up will be very similar to JV's when I get it put together, at least it's the same motherboard.

Best wishes to your mum, and strength for you family,
Cory


p.s., Hey Jimmy, which PCI-e slot did you use, the one farthest away from the vid card?

[garyb]

have you checked irqs?

many other devices can share, but Scope can NOT.

there were serious problems with the Nforce4 chipsets originally, too. later bios versions sorted that out, for the most part.

[hesnotthemessiah]

When I used the PC with the Audioophile 2496 PCI card and a total of 4 Powercores and 4 UAD1s - all PCI cards - there were no problems - tons of synths and effects and no clogging of the PCI buss

The Xite-1 requires more PCIE bandwidth than your standard PCI/PCIE soundcards when it gets going with all those lovely synths and fx. Strange thing is though, my PC problems occur even when Scope5 is loading the default project, or when the default project is loaded. The default project contains very little to put any strain on the PCIE buss - just an STM4896, midi in/out devices and ASIO2-Flt Source 64 module with it's counterpart Destination module.

Hopefully Pete at Scan computers can give me some info on his tests with other motherboards soon. But I have purchased an X58/i7 PC. It has not been found to be faulty. Infact it works great with an Audiophile 2496 PCI soundcard. Pete has tested the Xite on another UD4 board and had the same results. So I can't expect Scan to change my PC spec because I want to use an Xite-1 with it. I wouldn't really want them to change it drastically anyway.....

[hesnotthemessiah]

have you checked irqs?

many other devices can share, but Scope can NOT.

there were serious problems with the Nforce4 chipsets originally, too. later bios versions sorted that out, for the most part.

Yes. Scope is sharing same IRQ with my graphics card. PCIE4x slot and PCIE16x slot share same IRQ on the UD4. Can't start PC with Xite-1 card in PCIEx1 slot. Pete at Scan is aware that the Xite-1 probably doesn't like sharing IRQs. He is looking into alternatives for me.

[dawman]

I am sharing IRQ's with my graphics card, which I posted earlier as the EVGA GeForce 6800, but it is actually the NVidia 6600 on this box.
I could actually give it it's own IRQ as I am running a lean set-up. But I have had zero issues, so I am not taking any chances with further tweaks.

untitled.JPG

If your SCAN guy wants any extra information such as ini. or logfiles feel free to contact me, as I want to see a super fast DAW like yours w/ the X58/975 working...

[hesnotthemessiah]

Thanks for the kind words Corey. Mum is doing real well!! She started chemotherapy last week and was warned that she will feel sick and was given various tablets to help. But she hasn't felt sick at all . She is very strong for her age which is good.

I will let Pete at Scan know that Jimmy is ready for action!!!

[Sounddesigner]

I am having my share of freezing and crashes aswell with the Gigabyte UD4P. I have wrote Sonic Core and will further experiment and post my results later.

[Ben Walker]

I'd be particularly interested if anyone has got the Xite working with any i7 mobo, as I'm planning an upgrade later in the year and would have gone for the Gigabyte board if it weren't for the problems reported here.

Ben

[cortone]

Great news about your Mum, hntm! My dad managed to avoid much of the sickness side effects in a battle against prostate cancer. He was prepared for it, and I think the fact that it didn't happen really helped him get a positive outcome.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that the Audiophile card is telling us much about whether XITE will work on that motherboard. It's possible that the PCI bus is very well-designed, but the same attention was not placed on the PCIe bus, or maybe that bus is optimized for a different type of load than the XITE produces. This would point to the mainboard implementation more than the X58 chipset itself.

Does anybody have an idea how similar a heavy graphics load on the PCIe bus is, as compared to a heavy audio load/XITE load? Maybe the XITE is requiring a much higher average through-put, while the video load is more like large spikes with a lower average through-put? Or the other way around?

If many/most X58-based mainboards are having troubles with audio, then we can start to suspect the chipset itself. JV is mentioning some indications of this already. It may still get down to optimization for that particular bus, especially if heavy video loads are of a different type than XITE creates.

Unfortunately we're victims of our niche in the computer ecosystem, and the majority of X58-based users are probably very happy with the PCIe bus for their needs.

Would it help to start a new XITE thread asking current users to list:

motherboard
chipset
processor
RAM
SCOPEPCI+XITE or XITE-Only

Cheers,
Cory

[hesnotthemessiah]

Hi there Cory. It might well help having a more specific XITE thread asking users to list their PC spec. That's kind of what I was trying to do here but the thing is people, quite rightly, want to discuss things that can then lead the thread into different areas away from just a list of PC spec from Xite-1 users.

My current situation is this:-

Pete at Scan has done various thorough tests for me on my PC, swapping out the motherboard for another of the same model. Tested also on an Asus X58 P6T board and then tried to build a system as close to the recommended spec as he could (using P5Q-E, Q8200, 2 gig Hynix memory). He has also tried ATI and Nvidia cards on all of these specs in case of driver/irq clashes. All PCIE ports have been tested as working and the original X58 board has been fully stress tested and shows as working with various other audio components during testing.

Has has emailed me more details which I will post here once I confirm he is happy with me doing so. Pete sent me these details, along with his email address, so that I could send them to Sonic Core for them to look at.

I have sent the unit back once already to Sonic Core and a fault was diagnosed (something to do with the cable or connection - I can't remember - details are on my new PC at Scan). I am going to have to say that I have spent long enough on trying to get the Xite-1 to work with my PC (2 months now) and I need to get back to what I bought my PC for in the first place - making music. Sonic Core, did offer to test my PC and Xite-1 to see if they could set it up so that it worked. From what I have read about other Xite-1 user's experiences though, I can't see the Xite-1 working satisfactorily with my PC in the near future. So it's going to have to go back for a refund. I didn't want to post such a negative reply here about the Xite-1 - it was amazing for the few minutes I got it working, but there is no other way of putting it. I bought it, it doesn't work, it's been sent back once, tested on various systems and two months down the line I am extremely fed up and want to get back to making music. Good job I didn't sell my Scope Professionals!! I have emailed Sonic Core with these details including full details of Pete's email.

[cortone]

I can't fault your reasoning at all, especially given the amount of time you've put in. Very sorry that it's ending up this way though. I suspect that this will get sorted at some point, and may be you can consider it again at that point? Fortunately, you still have the PCI boards!

I'm very interested in the tests that Scan has done, so appreciate your posting it if possible. I'm hoping that some of the configs they tried are functional.

I'll be installing mine on my DP35DP system in the next few days (it's due for delivery today), and hoping for a happy story like JV's. I'll start the config thread to see if we can head off incompatibility issues for future users.


Enjoy getting back to the music,
Cory

[siriusbliss]

OK, now I see that you decided to post in a new thread.

Probably a good idea.

Greg

[cortone]

Thanks Greg, and you can ignore the PM.

Cory

[Sounddesigner]

Does'nt appear as if i'll have stability with the Gigabyte x58 and XITE-1 either. The pcie x4 slot gave me the best performance compared to x1 and x16 but i am getting too much freezing even with it, and it appears to worsen over time. I had to restor my O/S several times cause the hanging/freezing corrupted it leaving other programs not working properly.

Since SCAN has tried the Asus X58 and since the highly recommended Gigabyte does not work i think i'll try the board everyone says stay away from, Intel ..

[siriusbliss]

Today I did one more attempt at migrating the Xite PCI-e to another slot in the hopes of getting it to grab another IRQ, and was successful. Temporarily took out the old SRB, moved the PCI-e card, and the IRQ stopped sharing with the Nvidia.

I didn't have any real performance problems before, but now I am getting much fewer DSP errors, and am able to run both PCI and Xite simultaneously.

This IS on an older Intel board.

Now just have to wait for XTDM.

Greg

[nomagic]

I had the same problems as hesnotthemessiah with Gigabyte (EX58-UD5).
Now i installed another motherboard, ASUS Rampage II Extreme, and XITE-1 works!

So it seems not to be a problem with x58 in general.

[hesnotthemessiah]

In my situation I do not want the possibilty of having to go through what I have been through over the last two months again. I bought the PC from Scan and it works amazingly well with a combination of an Audiophile 2496 PCI soundcard, 4 UAD1s and 4 Powercores - all PCI cards (3 Powercores and 4 UAD1s in a Magma Chassis). I am just going to have to go back to using my 2 Scope Professional cards for now (they are sitting in my old PC and I will just swap them for the 2496 in the new PC). I will give it a couple of months, see how others are doing with the X58 boards and then, perhaps, look into trying out the Xite-1 again. I need to get back to making music!!!


Here is the email from Pete detailing his tests:-


Scan Computers System Fault Testing Report



Configurations used in testing whilst the system has been here.



Original Spec:



Gigabyte X58 UD4

3 gig corsair twin x

i7 920

Nvidia 9500 graphics



I have tried swapping out that board for another of the same model and then replicated the issues.



I then swapped it to an Asus X58 P6T board and replicated the issue.



We then tried to build as close to the recommended spec as we could:



P5Q-E

Q8200

2 gig Hynix memory



I've also tried ATI and Nvidia cards on all of these specs in case of driver/irq clashes.





This morning on the P5Q spec this happened in the testing process:



I installed and updated all drivers on system

Put card in and machine freezes on first boot to windows

Second boot to windows I installed the audio card

Reboot doesn't detect drivers, copy key file across

Reboot windows freezes during boot up and reboots,

Fifth boot up gets to windows,

Left sat on desktop and it freezes after ten mins.



I then uninstalled the card and drivers.

Extracted hardware drivers from the install file

Reinserted sound card and boot to windows

I ran hardware installer again and forced the install of the drivers

I reboot and install scope platform software

I then reboot and the hardware still not detected.



All PCIE ports have been tested as working and the original X58 board has been fully stress tested and shows as working with various other audio components during testing.



I can only come to the conclusion that the is a fault with the rack part of the XITE unit due to the number of hangs and crashes seen both in and out of windows when the device is turned on.



Also of note is that the X58 boards will not boot with the card in a 1X slot and it not power up with the card in a 4X slot if the unit is turned off. I've never seen this with any other breakout based unit!



If further information is required by creamware I can be reached on _______________.co.uk.



Pete Gardner

3XS Systems

Audio System Specialist

[Sounddesigner]

I had the same problems as hesnotthemessiah with Gigabyte (EX58-UD5).
Now i installed another motherboard, ASUS Rampage II Extreme, and XITE-1 works!

So it seems not to be a problem with x58 in general.

Thanks for posting this motherboard info! What graphics card are you using? Could you please list the rest of your specs?