garyb wrote:the pulsar1 is inferior in every way(though i have one and still use it), to the later cards. more s/tdm busses=more possible connections between cards. 1 works very well, however.
agreed.
Scope Pro's ROCK though!
Hey, do you think routing to/from current DAW to Xite via ADAT will be best? A really long s/tdm cable might be awesome though.
garyb wrote:the pulsar1 is inferior in every way(though i have one and still use it), to the later cards. more s/tdm busses=more possible connections between cards. 1 works very well, however.
but like all these things, it will continue to be supported regardless, as the only thing which happens is certain newer plug-in's simply won't work unless there is some form of restricted functionality which in effect is a different application.
I found an SOS article that talked about UAD and it said since UAD-2 is out that marks the beginning of the end for development of the UAD-1 platform but I don't find this to be wholly true as why for example wouldn't VST3 plug-in's (if written) run on the older hardware.
the only limits on devices are related to horsepower.
very few, if any, devices simply will not run on an older card. that may change with XITE, since XITE is considerably more powerful than the Scope cards.
UAD is in no way comparable(but can be quite compatible) with Scope, except in that they both have some nice devices.
So some of these synths won't even run? Not even a drum synth made by sonic core on a Home card (pulsar 1).
Doesn't seem to make sense.
So can it at least run a 32 channel mixer or is that asking too much as well?
Also, do these mixers in general function inside or outside of a music sequencer/audio record program such as Cubase?
As much as I have gotten good information from this forum, it seems very difficult to get a straight answer on this.
In other words would it work like Total Mix, the Echo Mixer, or even a GO44 for example, those mixers work in the system tray of windows, so does this do the same thing, or is it instantiated via the host ie VST Connections.
Thanks and my sincere apologies if I appear rude, maybe it's just the language barrier, i speak in Australian tongue.
So some of these synths won't even run? Not even a drum synth made by sonic core on a Home card (pulsar 1).
Doesn't seem to make sense.
The thing to remember is that when the Pulsar1 came out Scope 4.0/4.5, MiniMax, Profit 5 and all those other DSP-heavy devices were not even conceived - they came along much later. In fact Creamware had their six DSP system way before Minimax et al came out, and the three DSP systems were designed to run a sampler or a modular plus a basic mixer and a few simple effects, so the paradigm has changed over the course of development, but people have been able to keep up by cascading cards (or plumping for a minimum 14 DSP card).
Astroman has a Pulsar1 i think, he may be able to give you better figures on what you'll get out of it.
oldspeak wrote:
Also, do these mixers in general function inside or outside of a music sequencer/audio record program such as Cubase?
As much as I have gotten good information from this forum, it seems very difficult to get a straight answer on this.
In other words would it work like Total Mix, the Echo Mixer, or even a GO44 for example, those mixers work in the system tray of windows, so does this do the same thing, or is it instantiated via the host ie VST Connections.
There are two ways of working in Scope: Scope environment or XTC.
Using XTC you can use all this stuff within Cubase. i don't know much about it, never use, it introduces latency (although the Pulsar1 card has more latency than older cards - something worth remembering) and it foregoes the main point of Scope: the flexible routing window.
Using the Scope environment/routing window things become much more interesting - you can route anything to anything by literally plugging it in - as garyb always says: think of it as hardware. This environment also means you can get latency down to 3-4ms on a 2nd generation card (not on Pulsar1 though - i think minimum latency is 13ms).
You can use ASIO to buss tracks from Cubase into Scope - then into a Scope mixer and back to Cubase to record it. It's very easy once set up. i guess for some people flipping between all of two windows is too much bother but for me Cubase is not the centre of my system - Scope is (in fact i use Reaper now but the same principle applies - it's just a recorder and occasional VST instrument host). i will quite happily change host sequencers if they annoy me (Steinberg did), but i would not change Scope, except perhaps for an XITE-1 .
So are you saying that using ASIO to buss out of cubase means I'd be running two distinct applications in terms of memory, what I mean here is the Task manager under windows would show two distinct applications?
About XTC Mode, latency is fine as I'm only mixing and would you believe intend to use WDM or MME anyway, whatever Windows uses K mixer, WaveRT etc but of course sometimes I will use ASIO since I have an electric set of drums
I mainly program music so don't need low latency so 13 ms is fine I am used to working with that I'm not one of these who say latency is bad it just depends on what you want to do so even as outputs old scope would be fine for my needs but I am of course trying to understand the future as well.
Any more details would be most welcome and helpful.
the Scope environment has it's own windows. i like to keep my sequencer in one monitor and Scope in another...
the CPU could do extreme high quality virtual reality emulations of hardware easily, but there are so many jobs for it to do, that it is impractical if one wishes to run an advanced sequencer high quality romplers and the like. for this reason, DSP chips are cost effective and convienient, since they are dedicated processors. being dedicated to one job, a model can be made that is so accurate as to be virtually the real thing. depending on the complexity of the model, it may take more or less dsp power. Scope cards can be cascaded to add power to a system. in this way, an old p1 adds 4 dsp and i/o to a Scope Professional in my computer.
the thing is, this system really is different than the other stuff on the market, with the possible exception of the $40,000 or so Pro Tools HD. the sequencer should NEVER be the center of the world. it is a tool in the world. DSPs are what make rack gear work. DSPs make $250,000 SSL, Fairlight(which used a Scope card as it's effects module), and Euphonix digital consoles, the same ones as in the Scope card(and many others as well). Scope won an Academy Award for sound in the movie Gladiator and has been used on a number of blockbusters because of Hans Zimmer's employment of mutiple Scope computers. still, S/C is a small company and Creamware had it's problems, so it's not well known and pushed in every magazine(which are always paid reviews through advertisement). it takes some patience(but is ridiculously easy to use) and people are always suspicious of something that seems awesomely good but is priced cheap cheap cheap, but i can assure you, it's super cool.
if you're not very serious about what you do(even in fun), perhaps, it's not needed. if you are going to buy some toys and six months later you'll have a new hobby, give Scope a pass. if you want high quality, useful tools, Scope is a great investment. it's not about computers, it's about audio tools.
So are you saying that using ASIO to buss out of cubase means I'd be running two distinct applications in terms of memory, what I mean here is the Task manager under windows would show two distinct applications?
About XTC Mode, latency is fine as I'm only mixing and would you believe intend to use WDM or MME anyway, whatever Windows uses K mixer, WaveRT etc but of course sometimes I will use ASIO since I have an electric set of drums
I mainly program music so don't need low latency so 13 ms is fine I am used to working with that I'm not one of these who say latency is bad it just depends on what you want to do so even as outputs old scope would be fine for my needs but I am of course trying to understand the future as well.
Any more details would be most welcome and helpful.
monitoring on the Scope mixer is ZERO latency. latency is to and from the sequencer...
yes, two apps. the Scope app is only the GUI for the card. the asio i/o of your sequencer shows up in the Scope environment and can be routed, effected and monitored in any way, including externally...
Anyway, the more i read - your use of WDM and K Mixer (whatever that is) as garyb says, it sounds like Scope will be overkill for you, i don't think you'll gain anything. Part of the joy of Scope is NOT using the Cubase/whatever mixer but the Scope one.
However for easy hardware/software integration Scope is difficult to beat.
garyb wrote:monitoring on the Scope mixer is ZERO latency. latency is to and from the sequencer...
Thanks for explaining that better than i did. Yes, it is the sequencer's fault there is latency, not Scope's.
Now I understand the best way to use it and indeed I will use it this way at some point, this is a given, it all supports Wordclock so no problem if there is S/PDIF, is there s/pdif on a pulsar 1 btw?
I understand Scope's strength and I'm never one to say this way or that way is the go, XTC mode is the best or just use it as a soundcard.
Basically I'm happy using it at all, it sounds like a really seriously cool thing even if I only was to use it for a few synthisisers and a couple of effects inside a sequencer or outside, as I think XTC mode still allows one to route via ASIO in a similar way to how it is done regularly although I may need setting straight on this issue.
Basically what I think people tend to forget is these "toys" are about song writing and that doesn't always mean recorded tracks and I'm not one to be fooled by the idea that native software instruments (effects) can ever be as good, I know they can't be because there are too many other factors that get in the way especially on windows, eg GDI etc
So, as I have just found out a second generation card is automatically registered for Scope 4.5 is this correct and that paying for it would mean that 5.0 is free, assuming it ever comes out?
no, many second generation cards have 4.5, but not all. be sure to ask the seller...otherwise, yes, if the card has 4.5, it's eligible for 5.0 free. this also includes first generation cards with 4.5...
i agree, whatever use you put it to, it's a nice thing to have available.
pulsar 1s do have either sp/dif or aes/ebu, depending on if it's a unbalanced or balanced version. i always suggest new users start with a 6 dsp card. they usually have a better package of software with them than the 3 or 4dsp cards and are big enough to start having some real fun....
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