Big Piano Advance (Kensuguro Read This)

[braincell]

There will be a virtual piano announced at NAMM next week which "puts QL pianos to shame".

I was told this by an insider tonight.

[Neutron]

Does it use 1.5 TB or maybe a dedicated 10 TB RAID array
must be annoying after you bought that and spend ages installing it!

[braincell]

I have a feeling it might be a physical modeling piano. Strange as it seems they tell me that Pianoteq is amazing. That bothers me since I thought I had the best but I think mine is better in the bass notes, some people disagree also my piano uses way less CPU than Pianoteq. Pianoteq probably feels more natural to play as it doesn't do velocity switching and it resonates.

[kensuguro]

I wouldn't be surprised if pieanoteq released a new version. The current one has potential but the sound output sucks.

There's also pianoid, which is still very much in progress as far as I know. Pianoind is a much more accurate physical model, and runs on a dedicated hardware box.

At the end of the day, if you like the sound of your lib, I think all is good. For me, bluthner digital works in terms of sound but the sensitivity is off and messes up my wrist. So I'm thinking about going back to tbo. To me, there seems to be a lot more than just technical superiority that makes a specific lib work.

[dawman]

A sad state of affairs indeed.
After 20 years, they can't get it right in hardware of software.
Don't feel bad Braincell, I also got suckered into thinking QLPianos would be perfect.
They are overbloated and cannot possibly have all of the layers triggered unless you want to record and use a sequencer to go back and edit the dynamics to trigger the desired layers.
Hardly worth the time.
But the pictures looked really cool.
I can use SampleTekk Pianos and have a more satisfying experience than any of the big Romplers I wasted coin on.
But therin lies the problem.
I have great Pianos for ensemble performances that can cover Jazz, Rock & basic Classical styles.
But true Barrel House, New Orleans style, Blues, Jazz and Ragtime require a 3rd hand....hence the sostenuto pedal. Seems these " developers " have never heard of that, or the una corde pedal either. Fine, I can live w/ that.
Sadly PTeq has their pedals functioning perfectly, but they have programmed their instruments by using scientific calculations and nifty slogans. Their ears are out to lunch though.
I would love for SamplTekk and PTeq to combine their efforts and give us a Piano that sounds great and has the pedals working.
A friend of mine down in Vegas bought the " Authorized " Steinway because he knew most developers can sample the sounds w/o much difficulty, but was falsley told the instrument had the pedals, and they even had pretty pictures of polished pedals, etc.
He was shocked he bought the " Greatest " Piano ever made, then he recieved an answer to his question on how to use the pedals. They told him that somehow in the rush to release the instrument they forgot to implement the pedals, but they would update that feature in an upgrade. That was back in 2008, he still hasn't recieved a fix for that, but they are hard at work on fixing other numerous features that also don't work.
These big developers have great online websites and forums, but if you complain there, you will be bannished.
Fair warning, if the developer doesn't have downloadable demo's and just has some mp3 demos ( MIDI Files usually ) with some silly name like Concert Pianists tend to use, save your money.
After having a stick broke off up my ass about 6 times now I have given up.
My 80 dollar Black Grand while not being perfect, sure makes these Terabyte sized Goat Fucks look silly.

There are forums full of satisfied musicians that have recieved free copies and also post MIDI File demos to show their total happiness with the " Ultimate Piano."

I am surprised there hasn't been the " Ultimate Liberace Baldwin " w/ a jpeg of Candles and little mirrors, and forum threads full of little suck asses saying " Yes, that's definately a Baldwin Piano.".........

Here's a good question that's sure to draw attacks on " Piano " forums.
Just say, Jeez Guys, I have been playing Grand Pianos for decades and I cannot tell by a recording who is the artist, or if it's a Steinway or Yamaha, or Braunschweiger. Could you please elaborate. Then come the attacks, and of course the " Pros " who can give you an example of why it's a Steinway, etc.

I recently played a Roland RD 700GX, and the 300GX, both sound the same, just more zones on the 700. But I was going to buy it on the spot as the sound was the best I have heard to date. Several different models, and the EPianos were not immation but in house Rolandish types and they were very nice.

But 2500 USD.........fawgeddaboudit.
Maybe as Nostrodamus said everything will start happening in 2012.

[tgstgs]

maybe a developer without demoplugs just knows how to make demos run without restriction!!

good vibes

[astroman]

yeah Jimmy, we had that Winter-Solstice-2012-End-of-Mayan-Calender-Thingy...
as we had a discussion about Pianoteq 2 years ago

cheers, Tom

[braincell]

Space on the hard drive is not an issue anymore. The $500 gig hard drive costs $60 so it's using $30 worth of hard drive. For playability I don't care either since I apply the plugin when I'm ready to mix; before that I generally use the much lighter Halion player Yamaha S80 piano preset which was a free Steinberg download for Cubase owners. It sounds exactly like an S80. The QL piano isn't perfect but it is still better than anything I had before. Maybe I will get Pianoteq next year or something like it.

Update:

I have been playing the QL Pianos today; with lag because I don't have a pro-sound card yet. It's way better than the previous QL piano so I am pretty happy with it. It sounds slightly muffled to me but it has a pleasant warm sound. The loud notes are more compressed than the first one so it doesn't get really annoying as before. The louder notes do seem rather obviously like they are jumping to another sample at times. I like that you can mix different microphone positions and amounts. This takes a lot more RAM. That is why I am on Vista 64-bit now. I'm considering ordering an Echo Audio Mia MIDI. They are $109-$129. It comes with S/PDIF and Vista 64-bit drivers. All their cards do! I guess I will still have to juggle the BIOS a bit to make sure nothing else is on that IRQ.

[LHong]

Glad to see all of you guys are here! How have you been?
It is so interesting that I would chime in a bit!
I must agree about physical modeling, which could take a place!
However, don’t be too sad! The QL-Piano sounds pretty good is as good! Does not matter it is the best or not! Let’s do quick test (without mentioning about playability) as follows:
Here is the comparisons can be found more from http://www.purgatorycreek.com/ with same MIDI file:
http://www.purgatorycreek.com/downloads/pianotest1.mid
1. QLPiano MP3-Demo (New):
http://www.purgatorycreek.com/mp3/QLPia ... ullDyn.mp3
http://www.purgatorycreek.com/mp3/QLPia ... ullDyn.mp3
2. PianoTeq MP3-Demo (V2-New):
http://www.purgatorycreek.com/mp3/Piano ... C2_med.mp3
3. My Grand-Piano MP3-Demo (Old)
http://www.purgatorycreek.com/mp3/Yamah ... a309GP.mp3
Which one is best piano? 1, 2 or 3?
Personal taste of course! You could try to record once from your Piano as you wish!
Cheer!

[braincell]

Thanks for the link. I compared the QL Bosendorfer to the Pianoteq on this site and I liked QL more. It has better bass frequency as other people have said. Anyone who disagrees should listen to these mp3 files. Perhaps if the Pianoteq preset was modeling a Bosendorfer, it would be closer but there was a cold sterile sound to it for me.

[astroman]

well, I have 2 points...
first, I'll have to refresh my memory in the piano department of the local music store...
but I have the strange feeling that even the most humble 'true upright' had more 'sound' than any such samples played together. Let alone a real Grand...
actually that puts me into the position that I cannot properly judge any physical modelling approach due to a lack of memory about the real thing
extrapolating from my experience with 'real' string instruments like basses and guitars I revoke (almost) everything I ever wrote about the usefulness of a physical modelling piano...

Still I find the >20 DVD approach kind of ridiculuous, but ok - memory and storage are cheap today...
but I'd seriously expect a proper string resonance, too, then...

cheers, Tom

[kensuguro]

Hey LHong long time!

I have my doubts about the purgatory creek test.. You do get to audition the overall "sound" of the library, but like LHong pointed out, it has very little relevance to the playability for the library. These mp3s are just rendered using the library, so they're not tailored to the library. Of course, a real player would play to suite the library (could be good or bad thing), or adjust the library to suite his playing. This is what matters the most in terms of playability.

Also, the recording quality is questionable. Some are distorted, obviously not professionally recorded. So, it's a cool way to check things out, but it's definitely not a good test of quality.

Anyway, I think the QL pianos are awesome sounding, as far as I can tell from the demo. I'm pretty sure it feels good because it's got so many layers. The new piano, whatever it is will probably be cool to a certain degree, but will probably have its weaknesses. I do hope it's a physmod one though. Looking forward to it!

[braincell]

It would be cool if it was a new Pianoteq or something similar Kensuguro.

Astro:

Your point is taken but we are never hearing anything live unless we are in the same room with it. The QL pianos were recorded with excellent engineers, hardware and studio; better than I could ever do.

[braincell]

I just noticed another one. This should be really good, 100 velocities per key. That is amazing:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2009/01/ ... iano-ever/

[Gordon Gekko]

The CEUS computer grand is capable of recording even the most subtle key movements and positions using microprocessors and highly sensitive optical sensors. It plays those recorded notes absolutely identically using solenoids installed under every key. Far exceeding the limits of any other system, the CEUS measures the velocity of the hammer on its way to the string just before striking it (a distance of just 0.15") with an accuracy of 0.0001 milliseconds, and even records and exactly reproduces the key movements after every strike.

there. they should manufacture that CEUS computer grand, and have it drive the solenoids from a midi impulse. a play function so to speak, then let us record it with mics

[kensuguro]

btw new pianoteq 3 is out. Improvements in overall sound, nothing fantastic, but better than before. It still sounds very much synthetic. It's sad that this is the only accessible physmod piano around. It's sort of a bad representation because people are going to relate physmod to the pianoteq sound.

Also, pianoid website and blog is down at the moment, but the developer says it'll be up, and hopefully take pre-orders. Which I'm hoping means they're got pretty far in development. It'll be expensive for sure, but I hope it's not crazy like 10k or something..

[braincell]

I agree 100% about Pianoteq. I don't know why my friend (a professional music gear reviewer) thinks it is so much better than sampled pianos. They will get it perfect within the next 20 years I think.