WaveRT Much Better Than ASIO For Latency Sometimes

[Shroomz~>]

Warp, I guess if you don't change samplerate at all, then it's basically a non-issue?

[Warp69]

Well, that's correct.

Unfortunately I do change sample rates frequently - different mix jobs and while developing.

ASIO drivers doesn't have this problem - only MS drivers.

[Shroomz~>]

Makes perfect sense. So you'll be sticking with XP then?
Out of curiosity, if M$ fix this, will you definitely move to Vista or Win7?

[Warp69]

I have downgraded my Vista, so Im on XP right now. I work mostly in OS X, since Im using Mac Pro's. I'll have to upgrade my PC to a faster setup. I'll upgrade to Win7.

[valis]

If there really is an SRC in the software layer, setting both sides of the driver (Audio card & App) to the same sample rate doesn't necessarily disable the SRC. This is actually a problem with directsound/ac97/HD audio in Xp/Vista/Win7 already, and it sounds like WaveRT might inherit this instead of actually bypassing it (as ASIO will). Read up on the hydrogenaudio forums for more info, but even at the same samplerate on both sides you get some serious ringing added to your audio stream when it passes through the MS SRC, even at 'transparent' samplerates (same both sides).

Also it seems to me that every new OS Microsoft has made, they've tried to claim some improvement in their driver stack for pro audio (streaming kernel mode audio in Win2k which noone used, it was 'improved' in Xp and Sonar made a big deal out of using it exclusively, WaveRT in Vista etc).

[Warp69]

If that's correct that Vista process the audio stream with the same SR settings, then............................... Its hard to believe thats correct.

In CoreAudio under OS X it's upto the application to request a sample rate change - QuickSound does not, so any playback software that uses Quicksound as the audio engine (i.e iTunes) will generally not request sample rate changes. ProAudio applications such as Peak, Logic, Cubase and DP will request sample rate changes.

[braincell]

I tested it out using s/pdif.

I can change the rate as long as it does not go above 24 bit 48 khz in Cubase.

My new card works however I am not getting the latency I would like. Perhaps with future drivers. Microsoft suggest that for best performance the hardware must be designed for WaveRT not just the drivers. I don't think mine was.

Gary, there will be no more development for XP-64. Unlike 99% of users in this group, I like to use RAM and lots of it. The limit of under 4 gigs of RAM is simply not acceptable for me. I am going to mix through the SFP using ADAT, also for the Minimax, Flexor, etc..

[ScofieldKid]

Cakewalk (SONAR) is the other company that focused pretty heavily on the WaveRT stuff. Not that I'm a huge fan of the product historically speaking, but it might be a good match for people who are stuck on Vista.

Here's a random reference to some of that...

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/09/2 ... gineering/

[garyb]

cakewalk always brags about the latest m$ developements, the have developmental agreements with each other. i wouldn't pay much attention because the words are usually meaningless. Sonar is a great product though, as are the other big sequencers. it all depends on what fits workflow best. this problem with vista decsribed in this thread probably exists regardless of sequencer.

[DSP ADD!CT]

oh my, i allready was thinking about going mac cause im sick and tired of m$, this confirms again why. however, after i made a config on the mac site for a mac pro i was kinda shocked how much it would cost me. so i was thinking, for that price i have a killer m$ quad with an x-cite. a macbook is no option for me so after reading this theres no doubt i need a mac pro and a x-cite...
this is gonna cost me

[garyb]

xp doesn't work for you?

my son's macbookpro runs better on xp than osx....

[valis]

Vista & ASIO should be ok on a modern machine, as long as the developer has decent support. My RME card does Vista as well as it does Xp, though my machine is equivalent to a Mac Pro. A dual or quadcore from the last 2 years with enough ram should do fine with ASIO regardless of MS OS (Win7 beta is even doing fairly well). So the discussion about MS's consumer & 'prosumer' audio stacks has little to do with ASIO, it's just an attempt on the part of MS to compete with core audio.

Fwiw, although Apple's machines are doing better than they have in years in the market, their portable line sees as many issues these days as other companies (nvidia chipsets overheating & subject to failure / OS updates killing the lcd screen until a patch is issued / mini display port compatibility issues etc). Their desktop stuff is made from the same parts as other companies but with "apple tweaks" that remove features and many parts are not magically apple-compatible but require EFI support. Firewire works ok but they're dropping the dual firewire busses and doing just firewire 800, and so on. To top it off poor Steve is ill lately, causing a ruckus to their stock prices & concerns over who will succeed him and his legacy of the Stevenote speech. MS actually already passed the buck, and though Ballmer reeks of alpha-male in a world of geek, MS so far is weathering the storm and with Win7 seems to perhaps have some clue as to how to patch up their Vista debacle.

So overall Apple isn't necessarily a better experience for all things, though they do try to wrap some things up into a nicely packaged bundle to protect you from that large unknown out there in the 'mainstream'. Basically though, these are all just computers using OS's & software made by people who haven't the time or budget to create perfection. It mostly comes down to what you're familiar with and/or how lucky you are with your choices (or researched perhaps, but that's familiarity again).

[DSP ADD!CT]

making music is my fulltime job, i need to upgrade my system.
even xp is giving me so much issues lately that im done with m$ not to speak about their policy for pro users. they aim for the normal consumer, thats not me.
unfortunately theres now way back... a change has to be made.
x-cite is gonna help with that, thats 1 thing thats sure.

[braincell]

There are a lot of other companies involved. For instance I read someone say he was getting poor ASIO performance until he dumped his ATI graphics card for a Matrix. I think I am having the same problem now. I alsways thought ATI was good. With Apple they control everything so it is more likely to work. Some people have an excellent experience with Microsoft.

[braincell]

After a lot of trial and errors, I finally got the Echo 3G working in Vista 64. Yes I know I was warned not to use this OS. I was about to return the damn thing but I got it working finally but not in Cubase 4.52 64-bit preview (the latency was awful and then it stopped working altogether) but in Cubase 4.52 32 bit with ASIO4ALL controlling the 3G instead of the Echo Audio drivers! I am betting they will fix this and Cubase 5 will help also.


I am not going to be the first person to buy Scope 5!

[braincell]

I have discovered that WaveRT is great. I have zero input latency. The fact that I can not change the KHZ does not matter to me. This is fantastic!

ASIO4ALL uses WaveRT drivers (if you check the box, requires Vista or Windows 7).

[braincell]

I have no idea what it will be but I am going to use it now. I can do tons of tracks plus connect to the SFP through ADAT. What more could one want? I found a cheap way to add wordclock if I need it.

[Gordon Gekko]

I am not going to be the first person to buy Scope 5!

no shit!