XITE : your wishes

[dawman]

I agree with being unique.
Open doors for all I say, but more jpegs of analog hardware, etc. just seems like SC would be playing folow the leader.
I maintain XITE-1 has blazed trails already, further developments from anyone w/ developers skills and programming abilities should be welcomed.
I have seen ProTools, PoCo, UAD, Scope and Mixtreme several times, and they all have their emulations which I do like. But if a device functions well and has a decent GUI, why pay the extra fee to say it's a NEVE......afterall Neve makes hardware, or am I missing something?
On another note, speaking of uniqueness and originality, our free SDK guys have made some damn fine devices, and some of the GUI's are much more interesting than anything I have seen elsewhere.

[Warp69]

I agree with being unique.
Open doors for all I say, but more jpegs of analog hardware, etc. just seems like SC would be playing folow the leader.
..
But if a device functions well and has a decent GUI, why pay the extra fee to say it's a NEVE......afterall Neve makes hardware, or am I missing something?
On another note, speaking of uniqueness and originality, our free SDK guys have made some damn fine devices, and some of the GUI's are much more interesting than anything I have seen elsewhere.

Im sorry, but there's absolutely NO market for "new, unique and innovative" plugins compared to emulations/mainstream plugins - the ratio is like 2000:1. There's a reason why UA have an installed userbase of 60.000+, people WANTS emulations. There's not even a trend in sales toward "unique and innovative" plugins.

[siriusbliss]

I agree with being unique.
Open doors for all I say, but more jpegs of analog hardware, etc. just seems like SC would be playing folow the leader.
..
But if a device functions well and has a decent GUI, why pay the extra fee to say it's a NEVE......afterall Neve makes hardware, or am I missing something?
On another note, speaking of uniqueness and originality, our free SDK guys have made some damn fine devices, and some of the GUI's are much more interesting than anything I have seen elsewhere.

Im sorry, but there's absolutely NO market for "new, unique and innovative" plugins compared to emulations/mainstream plugins - the ratio is like 2000:1. There's a reason why UA have an installed userbase of 60.000+, people WANTS emulations. There's not even a trend in sales toward "unique and innovative" plugins.

But at one time, those units that are now emulated WERE unique and innovative.
I say, bring on whatever - emulations or some other hybrid contraption, I say go for it.

Greg

[garyb]

yup.

[Warp69]

But at one time, those units that are now emulated WERE unique and innovative.
I say, bring on whatever - emulations or some other hybrid contraption, I say go for it.

Yes and there're modern classics created by Dave Derr (Eventide, Empirical Labs), George Massenburg, Casey (Lexicon, Bricasti) et al. They use 3+ years to develope a single product. Im only interested in very high quality (no compromise)and no matter what, high quality products can't be achieved within 6 months. UA uses 1+ year for developing a emulation, so that gives us :

1) A very good emulation : 1+ year of development
2) A new (very good) innovative product : 3+ years of development

Time to market is important, so IMO it would be better to focus on emulations for a start.

[bill3107]

I think that "the men in the street " (home studio - project studios) are attracted by sound, fame and GUI. As soon as you gather these features you will sell more easily. Just my opinion, but UAD had success (we all know that the UAD-1 were unerpowered though and nobody was complaining about it...) because of fame + sound + GUI. As underlined by Warp69, emulation might be the 4th key I don't know. I really think that 90% of the potential customers for Xite/UAD/powercore..., want to "reach" the pro level in terms of tools without spending too much. So the virtual world must LOOK LIKE the hardware many cannot afford.... GUI is AAAAAAAAAAAAAAS important as sound... if you want to sell your plugin of course, period. Whatever it is for your own eyes or for your client's, the temptation increases. I personnaly believe that the third key is TOUCH. The more you can "touch" your plugins, the more "hardware" they become. On that point Xite is very good : we can now see and touch our DSP power (the pci boards were hidden...). Even a mere device could help a lot (ex : SPL volume, a remote, ...). ASB were great but I am sure they could sell a lot of small devices directly designed for Scope. Hey, that's the Protools theory but for very expensive devices. The same could apply here !

Soniccore must not follow the flock either. Just remember Nomad Factory ? Many of their plugins were launched just after URS ones... for the same emulation. I have nothing against Mr Torelli but I think that's not a good strategy. On the contrary, innovation cannot kill one's fame. So I think that Soniccore should focus on synth because there are only few synth for DSP platform ... and that's what they do !!!!!!!!!

Eventually, I think that 3rd party and Soniccore's website should be "similar" in terms of quality. Again, that's GUI but even worse... a website is the mirror of a company's communication... and thus reliability. Just my theory.

OPEN partneship with NO RULES will not help both developpers and Soniccore whereas an OPEN partnership with MORE rules will lead to better plugins, better GUI... and more sales (plugins and hardware). Just like a beautiful car with a strong engine !

Jonathan

[Sounddesigner]

I agree - I was thinking about enhanced versions of SoundToys native bundle.

Im all for uniqueness, but unfortunately that costs alot of developing time and therefor money.

And which "Truly" high-end plugins are you missing?

Btw. Nice promotion at GS, Alfonso.

There are many categories of effects/processors that i think could be more high-end for SCOPE. Tho i think SCOPE's processors/effects are generally good already there's definitely room for better. A few are below.

As far as Compressors go i'd like to see high-quality/Mastering-grade transparent compressors (both multiband and single) that can handle more extreme settings then the plugins i've tried on several platforms. I think this will strenghthen the claim of SCOPE being suitable for mastering. I do not care for Optimaster, i do have some nice Mixing compressors tho for SCOPE enviroment that are relatively clean and i do like, but they are not suitable for all the tasks i want done.

As far as characterful mixing Compressors; there are many i find to be good but very few really blow my mind. Neve 33609 did and seems to be of a slightly higher quality then other compressors plugins i've tried for character. I'd like something of that level of quality or better for SCOPE when it comes to character.

I'd love a really High-End reverb, wich i'm sure is a job someone like you can handle just fine . I have some plugin reverbs that are of good quality and get the job done just fine but none are truly high-end.

i prefer original creations over emulations but both are welcomed with me. I think as long as their very high-quality and only available for SCOPE that's most important.

Only thing i'm in a rush for is XITE-1. I hope and believe really high-end effects/processors will come over time to SCOPE, tho many nice ones are already here. I do have a good solid group of processors/effects for SCOPE that get the job done for me now and are good plugins that generally rival other platform plugins i've tried just fine, but also believe some true heavy weight champs need to come to SCOPE at some point.

[Warp69]

I think as long as their very high-quality and only available for SCOPE that's most important.

To create a very high-quality plugin and only make it available for Scope is only possible for SC. If a 3rd party developer use 1+ year for developing a high-quality plugin, they need to sell 3000+ units and thats not currently possible on Scope.

[garyb]

no doubt, but making money, while a good thing and no shame for someone to be doing, is not the only reason that things are developed.

also, if something really great were to be done, it's possible that that alone might sell the hardware necessary to move the software units....

just keeping things in the realm of possibility, not stoking up a war or intending disrespect...

[Warp69]

no doubt, but making money, while a good thing and no shame for someone to be doing, is not the only reason that things are developed.

Of course, making money is not the only motivation - but most developers does have bills to pay and a family to support.

also, if something really great were to be done, it's possible that that alone might sell the hardware necessary to move the software units.

Absolutely, I like your thinking. There's only a small thing I dont like - it's the word "might". Let us extend the idea - why not spread the risk so it's not only the 3rd party developer that has the cost? XITE customers could invest in the devlopment of a high-quality plugin for XITE by paying upfront. The more people who joins the investment the cheaper it gets for the individual.

[garyb]

it might work, depending...

...and of course we want you to be reasonably finacially secure while developing, for sure!

[dawman]

Brotha' Man warp69 I definately respect your knowledge and love your enthusiam.
I sure hope you are onboard when the units start rolling out.
During these tough ecomonic times hopefully loosening up the usual rules of distribution might come into play.
I must agree the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
Count me in on pre pay for anything related to Scope 5 / XITE-1.
I would pay dearly for a jpeg of a Model 7 by Casey on my LCD.
The idea of multiple instances of his Stone Quarry preset are making me drool on my QWERTY.

[sonolive]

hi guys,

let's be serious for few minutes ... if i quote all of your "high end " wishes in this thread ... unfortunately i don't have time to do it as there are so much ... we would have an "unbelievable" 1U rack ... i even think that it should be a 2 or 3 U rack ...

but over all, at what price ??? 5000, 6000 euros ???

the same that need more and more option are the same that also ask for a minus version a bit cheaper ... there is something wrong guyz !

soundesigner, you would like a really "high end" reverb, at what price ? how much could you invest in it ? 1000, 2000 euros ??

@martin :

why not spread the risk so it's not only the 3rd party developer that has the cost? XITE customers could invest in the devlopment of a high-quality plugin for XITE by paying upfront. The more people who joins the investment the cheaper it gets for the individual.

we at das, already did this with a "very famous" Pzian ... JV ... he invested some money ... and i can tell you that it was significant , for a special and personal plug ... i am sure he doesn't regret it as he is still earning money with it ...

more in the original "contract" beteween us, i told him that if one day we would sell it to public, he would have his amount of dollars ... many thx once again to him ... this coproduction was interesting for everyone ... for him first because he has got now a perfect tool for what he needs, and also for us, not only financially speaking but also as developpers speaking while we had to realise something we would probably never have done ...

cheerz
oli ve

[Warp69]

Count me in on pre pay for anything related to Scope 5 / XITE-1.

I knew you would be prepared for something like this

But not many would - that was my point.

A 3rd party developer could create a emulation of the Lex 480L + Classic Cart + HD/Surround cart for the XITE system and the customer could load something like 24 instances (engines). That would mean that 30+ XITE customers would have to pay $1000 upfront and if sales pick up, they're entitled to get a refund of the difference between the investment ($1000) and the actual price ($249) of the plugin.

That might be expensive for a plugin, if sales don't pick up - a Lexicon PCM 96 costs around $2000 for a 2 engine version.

we at das, already did this with a "very famous" Pzian ... JV ... he invested some money ... and i can tell you that it was significant , for a special and personal plug ...

Interesting! I know that Jimmy really does support SC and the 3rd party developers.

Btw. Sorry for the OT.

[sonolive]

But not many would - that was my point

did you mean "no one else" ???

A 3rd party developer could create a emulation of the Lex 480L + Classic Cart + HD/Surround cart for the XITE system and the customer could load something like 24 instances (engines). That would mean that 30+ XITE customers would have to pay $1000 upfront and if sales pick up, they're entitled to get a refund of the difference between the investment ($1000) and the actual price ($249) of the plugin.

you got the point martin ... that why i do think : let us SC issue a "basic" but well promoted version of xite ...

and if promo, communication and marketing are ok, they will sell a lot ... and then employ devs for their own "fabulous" plug ins ... emulation or not , after all, with "great names" on them ... or not, after all ...

cheerz
olive

[bill3107]

My best Wish : an endless thread like this one !!!!! Damn, I love the way you are talking guys... a really good vibe is born. I think many people believe in Xite and I think that we are all able to promote the product as soon as SC gives us a strong Xite. Xite keeps the creamware spirit : New product, New philosphy, and and a sharing attitude...

One last wish : as there is an XTDM connector (for linking XITEs) that may mean that they plan to launch several versions (with less power) ??????? Exactly like before !!!! Remember the PCBs of scope home, project and Pro were 100 % different so may be there will be distinct PCBs according to the model ????? That would help sales FOR SUUUUUUURE !!!!! And someone investing on the Xite WILL buy plugins for Xite instead of native ones, that's obvious to me, especially with such a horsepower. So what really matters first : a strong Xite hardware with a strong Scope 5. The rest will follow ....



Jonathan

[sonolive]

My best Wish : an endless thread like this one !!!!! Damn, I love the way you are talking guys... a really good vibe is born.

agree ... even if there was no doubt about it here on pz !!!

cheerz
olive

[dawman]

When the i7 MacPro becomes available later this year XITE-1 will definately be a great option for mobile power users.
Live use of one of these will shock many. The DAS MM has been in use for live FOH/Monitor chores for over 2 years, I can estimate roughly 5000 hours of use by March 2009.
The group that first used it now has a ProTools/Logic FOH guy, and a dedicated 64 channel Midas board for their monitors now. They are way spoiled, but for local club gigs, they can hardly perform as the mics have cables and the monitors are wedges.....we did spoil the cackling Hens Olive..
If GaryB had one to demo in LA I can imagine many film guys snagging one of these.
A simple endorsement from Hans Zimmer would be worth it's weight in Platonium !!
Even getting Modular to have MOTM endorsed plugs could be useful.
As long as we keep chattin' and bouncing ideas around in this thread, we are helping everyone involved. Trust me these guys are reading this.
Let's give 'em something to chew on.

[DSP ADD!CT]

Great thread indeed, shows how willing all the users on here are in making Xite a succes.
If SC get the marketing part right i have no doubt it will drop like a bomb!
Maybe it's a good idea to get the support of some big artist in different genre's of music.
For instance, the dancemusic scene is so huge now. Why not hand out a few to some big producers/dj's so SC can use that in their marketing campaign.
When people see those producers use Xite it will for sure help the sales.

[Ralf]

- beer can holder

- cigarette lighter

:=)