WaveRT Much Better Than ASIO For Latency Sometimes

[braincell]

WaveRT is a new standard for audio developed by Microsoft starting in Windows Vista which could be faster than ASIO when properly implemented by hardware manufacturers. The "RT" stands for real time. Essentially, WaveRT lets the driver get out of the way, enabling audio applications to connect more directly to the hardware.

Echo Audio has WaveRT drivers for their cards. I *hope* WaveRT will be included in Scope 5. I'm testing out a WaveRT driver for an old Echo Audio Indigo, however I am not sure if this will work as it is a laptop card in a desktop computer. I bought a PCI adapter for it some time ago when this type of card became obsolete in my new laptop. The small card slips into the back of the desktop computer. My first attempt caused a hard crash but after reading more about WaveRT, I am going to go back and try and eliminate any possible IRQ conflicts and see if it works. The adapter thing probably isn't a good idea for this I know.

[Zer]

I doubt that there will be ceratin developments regarding to vista, when the next Os is already announced.

[Tau]

Some PCMCIA to PCI adapters work better than others. I got me one for an RME PCMCIA, and it didn't work at all, and the same happened with the Echo card. I believe that most of these adapters are built with PCMCIA modems / network cards or Compact Flash cards in mind, and not real time audio computing...

[braincell]

Thanks Tau. I might as well not even try it then.

Zer, From everything I have read, Windows 7 is nearly the same as Vista. I am sure it will use all the same drivers. WaveRT was not just intended for Vista. Probably Microsoft should have skipped Vista and gone right to Windows 7 but then again, Windows 7 has the advantage of not being named Vista. Had Vista never existed, Windows 7 would be the dog.

[Zer]

Yeah, seems to be like the former ME.

But let`s see what future brings. Perhaps also an Asio 4.0 standard.

[braincell]

I just ordered the Echo Audio Gina3G. It has ADAT lightpipe so I will be able to mix through the SFP on my old computer (using two computers). The only drawback is no wordclock but it should sound ok I think.


This will be great!!!

[Neutron]

I doubt that there will be ceratin developments regarding to vista, when the next Os is already announced.

windows7 uses the same drivers as vista, so it should be fine.

[Zer]

It´s a beta...most changes are taking place just some hours befor the release.

[braincell]

Here is the biggest blunder:

Windows Vista recommended system requirements

"512 MB of system memory"

You should have 2 gigs and a dedicated graphics card. A cheap laptop is going to totally suck with 512 MB of RAM and Vista!

[Warp69]

NO!

WaveRT in the current form is not better than ASIO.

It's absolutely impossible to change the sample rate from any source other than the Control Panel in Vista. No Microsoft driver model allows that!!!! So you can't change the sample rate of the wave drivers from the audio hardware environment (Scope, RME, Lynx etc) or in the circumstances where the hardware sampling rate is determined by external influences, such as an AES3 or SPDIF device controlled by an external sample clock i.e. the audio card is in slave mode.

The response from MS :

We did a rough calculation of how many trees we would save by not sample rate
from 44.1kHz to for instance 48kHz (common sample rate used by devices) for
let's say 250 million PCs (about the number sold in a year) by users using the
PC to play music (a common scenario for approx. 60% of us) and while I can't
find the numbers right now it amounted to A LOT of trees.

So, think green and don't muck about with audio sample rate settings
programmatically

Hakon Strande | Software PM | Microsoft Hardware

I have no idea why some one would choose Vista for Pro Audio.

[voidar]

Yeah, that response absolutely reeks of ignorance on the behalf of pro audio.

[Shroomz~>]

NO!

WaveRT in the current form is not better than ASIO.

It's absolutely impossible to change the sample rate from any source other than the Control Panel in Vista. No Microsoft driver model allows that!!!! So you can't change the sample rate of the wave drivers from the audio hardware environment (Scope, RME, Lynx etc) or in the circumstances where the hardware sampling rate is determined by external influences, such as an AES3 or SPDIF device controlled by an external sample clock i.e. the audio card is in slave mode.

The response from MS :

We did a rough calculation of how many trees we would save by not sample rate
from 44.1kHz to for instance 48kHz (common sample rate used by devices) for
let's say 250 million PCs (about the number sold in a year) by users using the
PC to play music (a common scenario for approx. 60% of us) and while I can't
find the numbers right now it amounted to A LOT of trees.

So, think green and don't muck about with audio sample rate settings
programmatically

Hakon Strande | Software PM | Microsoft Hardware

I have no idea why some one would choose Vista for Pro Audio.

Unbelievable!!!

[braincell]

I'm going to try it today using an Echo Audio Gina3G in Cubase 4.5 64-bit preview. I will report my results here. Hopefully installation will go smoothly. It would seem odd to me if what you are saying is true since Echo Audio did not report this. The driver clearly says WaveRT.

[Tau]

The response from MS :
So, think green and don't muck about with audio sample rate settings

Hakon Strande | Software PM | Microsoft Hardware

No way.... trees get cut because of samplerates.....

[garyb]

hey Warp,
yes, we may want to just avoid Vista, but couldn't a user change the samplerate in both the control panel and the driver app? if Vista's just resampling regardless, then at least both parties can agree on the matter. i agree, if that's the case, no pro audio user should touch Vista, it's unacceptable for the OS to resample mission critical data on it's own. it's unbelievable the arrogance of that "green" response, writing to children about Santa Claus instead of addressing the issue of the destruction of audio data. ptui.

it's unfortunate, because Scope on Vista runs very well.

[voidar]

Not to speak of the processing power a quality SRC really needs.

[Shroomz~>]

Gary, such an arrogant reply from someone at Microsoft is no surprise at all. They were just as arrogant regarding updates required for IE6 to actually work properly as a modern web browser & they never fixed it within it's lifespan. Despite the fact that it NEEDED fixed, they were completely arrogant about it, walking out on industry conferences & meetings on web standards when prodded about the issue.

Mark

[Warp69]

but couldn't a user change the samplerate in both the control panel and the driver app?

Of course you can - it's not that Vista cant handle different sample rates - you'll have to change the sample rate both places - in the Control Panel and in the driver app.

When you change your external master clock - everything in your studio have the correct clock except Vista - first after you have visited Control Panel. Unfortunately there's no master sample rate in Control Panel, so you'll have to change every individual channel - in my case 40.

In all fairness - they might change it in the future.

[Shroomz~>]

Warp, I guess if you don't change samplerate at all, then it's basically a non-issue?

[Warp69]

Well, that's correct.

Unfortunately I do change sample rates frequently - different mix jobs and while developing.

ASIO drivers doesn't have this problem - only MS drivers.