Pro Flexor for Scope 5 - PETITION

[kensuguro]

lemme toss in a stone (darn that was a lot of reading!).

To me, I don't think Flexor moving to any platform is of relavance. Moving to native will have piracy issues, but sound wise, I doubt it will be much of an issue. From what I remember chatting with Red back before Flexor was released, his methodology is very mathematical, and my guess is that can be recreated fairly well on anything.

Going to brain's comments on CPUS gaining power rapidly.. I actually savvy that idea. To me, it seems like getting extra PCs when you need more oomf, may be a very valid choice, if portability isn't an issue. Sure, you'll have some sort of wintosh system running which will most likely crash in one way or the other, but it's cheap, and easily deployable. So productivity wise, I don't think this route is invalid.

Not in terms of flexor's impact on scope platform.. I'm 100% sure that flexor has had incredible impact in the mod community. The only thing is... I'm not too sure the mod community is what SC caters to. It is a strong part of the product, but as a whole, perhaps it doesn't constitute a big enough portion. If so, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a business choice to prioritize mod related matters lower than whatever else it is they're doing. It definitely lookes like SC is trying to go in a slightly different direction than before. (seems more mix / studio orientated, less instruments) But that's just my speculation.

At the end of they day, I don't think mixing native and DSP is a bad idea, or going native isn't such a bad idea either. Anything easy, and fits in well with the workflow is going to attract more users. I started using Pulsar back when my CPU couldn't handle more than a handfull of native synths with minimal voices each. Now, I run most of my synths on native, and just mix on scope. I just think the distinction isn't such a big deal anymore. Of course, I personally would never mix in dsp.... but I've done it before, and it wasn't too bad.

[MD69]

All of this is a storm in a cup of tea!

Don't extrapolate on decisions you don't know. It's an economic matter which can easily be resolved by clever minds.

I don't think sc underestimate flexor, just they have other more important matters to solve (as the delay for xcite tend to prove) before to be busy with this.

It can easily understood that creamware going out of busisness have hurted adern sales and recent events (TASCAM stopping Giga certainly for incomes too low) have also prooven that developpers have to think to the pratform on which they works.

Let them reach an agreement, that's all which matter.

[Shroomz~>]

All of this is a storm in a cup of tea!

+1

[braincell]

More important things? Bullshit! They never even tried Flexor. That is partly why I called them arrogant. They think that they are gods offering us their genius contraptions and we should be grateful for whatever we get with no input from us because they know so much better than we do what we need. Red played down the fact that he wrote better modules than they did. The modular was a good idea then they dropped it. Like they dropped the STS. They do one small thing and move on no progression. Adern plans to improve the modular, SC does not care. They are too busy working on xite or whatever they think is the hot sexy item of the time. I read about platform 5 and I didn't see anything new about it basically. This is crap. Develop the platform or sell it to someone who will.

The petition is a waste of time because there is no dialog with customers. There never has been and there never will be. The petition will not even be read. I gave more money to this company than I did to Roland and Yamaha combined but I feel I am a nobody to them.

[Shroomz~>]

Give us all a break braincell. Please!

[IGNORE ON]

[siriusbliss]

I feel I am a nobody to them.

don't expect any developer to develop for users who whine and complain as much as you do, and ramble on as much as you do, and belittle them as much as you do, while constantly trying to make a point that noone cares about anymore.

S/C isn't developing for YOU, since you apparently don't care. So, sell your Scope stuff and move on to the other industry forums, where you can whine along with everyone else (they're out there).

You've been muted...

Greg

[wayne]

The sky is still falling!

Time to review the medication...

[braincell]

Great use the mute! This is what I want. Some of the people in here know how to carry on an intelligent conversation without attacking fellow members and some not. I happen to be waiting to see if they go bankrupt again and sold so we can get some further vision and development of the platform. I could care less about overly expensive external hardware but that is just my opinion. Like nearly everyone else here, I bought my cards for the Scope Platform. That is where the focus ought to be. Adern is learning exactly what kind of company this is. My complaining is not meant as a message to the company, obviously it won't work but as a plea to any future developers who take over after this mess. The Xite isn't going to save them. That is just delusional. Like Kensuguro, I'm using Scope less these days. The Minimax is impressive. The Cubase mixer is more transparent but the Scope mixer has good warmth and more punch for some sounds. It's also more bothersome to use.

[pling]

this is getting so boring braincell

[FrancisHarmany]

I bought my cards for the Scope Platform. That is where the focus ought to be. Adern is learning exactly what kind of company this is. My complaining is not meant as a message to the company, obviously it won't work but as a plea to any future developers who take over after this mess.

I think its arrogant to believe you know where the focus should be. You make
many assumptions about the future. Perhaps you need to re-shuffle your
tarot cards to do another reading.

Also I think the way you "plea" to future developers is a joke. Its not what
you are doing, please take responsibility for your behaviour. The funny thing is
you mention in the same sentence that which you are really doing:
""" My complaining is not meant as """

p.s. where is that mute button anyway ?

[alfonso]

Great use the mute! This is what I want. Some of the people in here know how to carry on an intelligent conversation without attacking fellow members and some not. I happen to be waiting to see if they go bankrupt again and sold so we can get some further vision and development of the platform. I could care less about overly expensive external hardware but that is just my opinion. Like nearly everyone else here, I bought my cards for the Scope Platform. That is where the focus ought to be. Adern is learning exactly what kind of company this is. My complaining is not meant as a message to the company, obviously it won't work but as a plea to any future developers who take over after this mess. The Xite isn't going to save them. That is just delusional. Like Kensuguro, I'm using Scope less these days. The Minimax is impressive. The Cubase mixer is more transparent but the Scope mixer has good warmth and more punch for some sounds. It's also more bothersome to use.

Braincell,

I think that opinions on Scope can be the most different and even the subjective impressions of the past or actual company can be the most different as personal experiences and tastes. Every personal opinion has to be free to be expressed by any Scope user in this forum, and you know how I always been favourable to the freedom of speech even in case of extreme opinions and against any form of web (and not web) fascism.
But as a current collaborator of Adern I would like to say that you, like anyone else not belonging to Adern somehow, can't know what we do or do not think of Sonic Core, nor what the current state of relations are. You might have your speculations and arrive to some conclusions based on your own experiences and preferences, but I'd suggest to wait a bit more that things are clear and defined before making definitive statements on other people's positions.

I will never say that you cant keep pointing at the features or policies that you don't like, this is everyone's right, but there must be a reason why sometimes you get unfriendly answers. I think that sometimes your considerations are a bit superficial, in the sense that you shoot the bullet before having understood or individuated the real target.

Xite-1 is nothing else than repacking the current (great i.m.o.) Scope way of working in a sleek and powerful hardware with much better dsp power, much better computer bus communication, portability and the possibility to go far beyond the actual 3 x Scope Pro limit, probably solving forever all the STDM failures, with better, more powerful and manageable dsp allocation.
They just make Scope, as it is, for those who like it as it is, much better, comfortable, efficient and practically costing as 2 actual Scope Pro cards, a setup quite frequent amongst us.

You said that what you want is the Scope Platform. You already have it. But you want to use Vista...New Vista drivers are coming. Do you need more power and portability? get Xite-1. You don't need it? Don't buy it! So easy! Nobody is going to limit you on the native side, running scope means having more power left in the CPU. And please don't tell me I defend S.C. because I'm only saying how things are and, as an Adern member, I have the same interest for all the productive realities and platforms, Adern is a technology beyond Scope.

To end, please avoid to talk for developers if you're not one, for live scope users if you're not (I am) and make the most ferocious critics you feel but as your own personal point of view and related to your own needs.
Thx.

[braincell]

The ASB and the Xite has stopped the development of the Scope platform. I agree that the platform can still be used but we would hope and expect it to grow and improve. Vista drivers is the only advantage to version 5 if you already bought all the software as I did.

Adern is developing for the platform and SC is not. To add insult to injury they are dropping Flexor. We should start an open source petition. SC should do just what they want to do which is make hardware. They don't seem interested in software anymore.

Obviously crude insults don't bother me. May I suggest the mute button. Developers need to listen to customers and not tell them to shut up no matter how they may feel personally about them. You hang up the phone on a customer and you will not get more sales. Word gets around my friend. Your purpose is not only to make software but to make software people want not just what you think they should need. So far you have failed miserably. . Developers simply can not survive without customers. We don't need to know how to write code to know what we want to buy and much we can afford to pay. You have a lot of nerve to say that customers should not have in input on development because they don't know how to code. We have desires and more importantly, imagination, something that is sorely lacking in software development.

[Immanuel]

Bullshit! They never even tried Flexor.

Bullshit! YOU never even read the easily available specs on Xite.

[Immanuel]

Some of the people in here know how to carry on an intelligent conversation

And though, you are good at frasing your words, unfortunately, you are not one of them. It does require using 5 minutes on getting a minimum of knowledge about, what one is talking about. And you just proved, that you have speend good knows how much time bashing a piece of hardware not even knowing what the connections on the back are for - even though the information was easily awailable.

What a waste of time - hardly an intelligent way of prioritising it anyway.

[braincell]

The petition will fail. The entire thread is wasting time by people who don't know what's going on. I'm sure Sonic Core doesn't appreciate their private business being aired in public. I'm also glad we are getting a hint of SC direction but the petition is pathetic. Just my opinion .

[Immanuel]

Adern is developing for the platform and SC is not.

Bullshit

To add insult to injury they are dropping Flexor.

At least two versions have been told. And you are in a position to know, the truth?
Bullshit

They don't seem interested in software anymore.

Bullshit

May I suggest the mute button. Developers need to listen to customers

Mute me, no don't mute me!
Can you make up your mind?

and not tell them to shut up no matter how they may feel personally about them.

Anyone can take a certain amount of bullshit before "muting" the other part. I can easily believe that a good deal of people have muted you - developers or not.

You hang up the phone on a customer and you will not get more sales.

But you may get to spend your time in, what you considder more fruitful ways.

Word gets around my friend.

Yet, the power of your words are dimminishing by the minute.

Your purpose is not only to make software but to make software people want not just what you think they should need.

Ultimately the purpose of people's lives are to do what they want to do, when possible. Developers are human beings - not robots created to serve you.

So far you have failed miserably.

You used to say, that Flexor is oh so cool. Can you make up your mind?

Developers simply can not survive without customers.

I am sure SC will do just fine without you as an individual Xite customer. Noone can cater fore everybody. In fact, for you specifically, please do not buy Xite.

We don't need to know how to write code to know what we want to buy and much we can afford to pay.

You keep on trying to claim all potential custommers have the same needs and funds as you.
Bullshit

We have desires and more importantly, imagination, something that is sorely lacking in software development.

Did Adern all in a sudden change to an unimaginative bunch of people?
Bullshit, where should all that imagination spend on Flexor etc. have gone?
Is SC unimaginative?
Bullshit. They are bringing out a revolutionary product.

[Immanuel]

The entire thread is wasting time by people who don't know what's going on.

Most of this thread is one person spreading uninformed and offending selfmade "truths" as truths. And then some people trying to defend the offended parties.

I'm sure Sonic Core doesn't appreciate their private business being aired in public.

And though you have several times claimed to be in a position to do so (with all your "truths"), this has not happened - only a wague pseudoversion of it.

[astroman]

just a couple of facts
the XITE is a card, but it can be connected by a cable because that version of serial bus is more reliable than it's predecessor (which btw is effectively a serial bus, too - at least that's how the PCI specs appeared to me)

the only difference is the enclosure, so all Braincell wants to spare is the $$ for the metal box
2 preamps are a couple of ICs for a few bucks - again this is not what eventually defines the major aspect of the unit's sales price.

the main aspect is developement costs, and you bet that Sonic|Core has a lot of those.
They really do work on the Scope platform and it has been pointed out more than a year ago how much work it is to adjust such a complex system to the new DSP chips by Analog Devices.
You've even been pointed to the respective White Papers on Analog's website - if you can't understand them (Braincell) - shut the f**ck up, please. You're spreading misinformation, not just rumours...

If SC wouldn't be working on Scope, why did they hire Klaus Piel, who's been the main DSP developer at Creamware ?

They also announced their definitive decision to support VISTA, doesn't this count as devlopement ?
If you refer to '...just a Vista driver...' do you have any idea about the amount of code involved ?
Probably not - so it's not your part to comment on timelines, obviously.

As Alfonso (great post, thanks) pointed out - any opinion is appreciated, in particular a critical one
but you're just taking your individual point as the one and only perspective
the strange thing is... your music reflects a much more sophisticated attitude and one really wouldn't expect this kind of tunnel view from it's composer...

cheers, Tom

[Mr Arkadin]

p.s. where is that mute button anyway ?

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[Gordon Gekko]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/03/magaz ... OWsXnT0q4g

that's if you have nothing to do today