Pro Flexor for Scope 5 - PETITION

[braincell]

I like Flexor too.

My requests would be:

PCIe on a Scope card ($400)
Slots for more DRM chips users can plug in without buying a new card
Offer credits instead of bundles (duplicates infuriate me)
DRM which users control and is free to transfer
Rewire on all modules
More respect to any developers

These are demands they could meet which don't require a lot of imagination and would be a great benefit to me.

[braincell]

If they can make Flexor as good on any computer without Scope, it will be great. Adern should move on. Red is a genius on an order higher than anyone at SC. This I am sure of.

[dawman]

As The Former Great Ronald Reagan Would Say.....................There Ya' Go Again !!

Brotha' Man Braincell,........One can attract more Worker Bees w/ Honey, instead of Vinegar.

[braincell]

Oh well Flexor rocks!

[garyb]

[astroman]

... Red is a genius on an order higher than anyone at SC. This I am sure of.

Red's talents are unquestioned, but without Holger providing the GUI for the Scope environment... how and where would he have entered his bright ideas ? in a text editor using C++ and machine code ???
to be honest... even if Red could code fluently in any such language, you would still be waiting for the release of Flexor 1.0 beta, as no human being would be able to code that amount of functionality while studying music and make his living as a music producer.

I recently wrote that everyone of us ows something to Red and the Adern team for taking this system so far
but we also owe to the developers at SonicCore for providing the ground to build upon
Holger (GUI), Juergen (hardware) and Klaus (DSP) have been a vital part of this 'project'

and it's in fact only since they have taken over that there is active talking and negotiating with 3rd parties
you're probably right regarding the old Creamware management which was (according to rumors) a bit more 'closed' in that context.
the SC website clearly reflects this change of mood - if there are differences... well, it's business...
afaik there was never anything else but a 50/50 share of the shop revenues of 3rd party plugin sales

there were cases that top suppliers withdraw from their Scope engagement due to lack of protection of high class algorithms.
It has already been discussed a year ago and someone guessed the true reason by pure reason - if you can lock a door with a key, you also can unlock it - and you know there are keys in realworld, that serve for a complete building...
afaik SC found a way to deal with this situation in an appropriate way for both sides

honestly Brain - you're probably bashing the wrong guys

cheers, Tom

[braincell]

Tom, Thanks for your post.

This is really weird but check out the sign behind the dude in the red shirt!

[Shayne White]

I like Flexor too.

My requests would be:

PCIe on a Scope card ($400)
Slots for more DRM chips users can plug in without buying a new card
Offer credits instead of bundles (duplicates infuriate me)
DRM which users control and is free to transfer
Rewire on all modules
More respect to any developers

These are demands they could meet which don't require a lot of imagination and would be a great benefit to me.

Well, I for one am excited they're starting out with Xite-1 because I want tons of power, tons of I/Os and tons of flexibility. Little $400 cards don't interest me. A small, budget-oriented card would be nice for the future -- basically upgrading the current Scope Home to PCI-E with new DSPs for small home studios. But Sonic|Core is a new company and they can't release everything at once (especially when we're impatiently clamoring for them to release just this first product), so Xite-1 is good for now. Maybe they can do "Xite Lite" in the future.

ReWire support would be DUMB just as XTC was dumb and PowerCore is dumb and UAD-1 is dumb. I would NEVER use such a thing -- I can't stand latency and want to eliminate it everywhere as much as possible. So introducing extra latency through ReWire is useless and a waste of SC's valuable time, better spent on making new and better plugins (and those $400 home cards you were talking about).

Shayne

[bill3107]

ok, I have found the "mute" button .... sorry if I got you wrong Braincell but I mainly reacted to that sentence :

They have always been a very arrogant company and now we see nothing has changed with SC

I may have overreacted but I thought your message was both unfair and agressive.... Soniccore has created many new products in but a few month (from ASBs to Xite) and there are many good plugins. You (and I !) cannot judge people but of course we can judge products. Saying Soniccore staff is arrogant and only accept friends for developpement is totally wrong. Just check the list of current developpers and you will see many are not german and some are former developpers (creamware era). Yes, some developpers' strategy may not be compatible with that of Soniccore. Is it arrogance ? I have worked for several audio companies (Magix, nomad Factory and TC / Helicon) and I know ... consumers are most of time far from the truth, far from reality. Because, remember strategy is confidential.

Furthermore, as I pointed out, I think we all need comprehensive opinion (I mean we must explain !). It is easy to say : "damn standard UAD plugins are crap and TC Powercore x8 is not enough for mixing a whole project... This is just an axample but this kind of comment cannot help. Even worse : they can give a wrong information. If you find xite is crap, just explain (although I have planned to get one i am really interested in your opinion though ; I have just not found a better mobile and comprehensive solution by now....).

I just wanted to let you know I am in favor of Flexor on Scope of course. Furthermore my message was may be a bit agressive ... Do not take it personnally please (when reading this morning, I deeply regret the way I wrote it). I will edit my message today and hope you will accept my apologize. Sorry again.Thanks,

[braincell]

Thanks!

While Xite seems like a great piece of equipment, I am only sorry that I won't be able to get one.

I have been using Creamware products since about when they began. The salesman who I trusted got me into it. That salesman now is a composer for a Christian software company. The large music gear store was taken over by the son of the owner who I don't like. I shop online now because it's easier and there is a wider selection. That wasn't as much of an option back then. Like most people, I buy more software than hardware now. One thing stuck in my head though from way back when Creamware began. The salesman, who was a very intelligent and nice guy told me he wasn't selling very many Creamware cards because they are were expensive. That was always a problem for them so now when they launched the Xite, it just seemed like more of the same mentality. They want to make something amazing but that is not enough these days (in my opinion). Musicians need to pay for gasoline and heating and ac and health care like everyone else. Maybe it's easier in Germany.

Flexor will be on my Laptop? That is great. If Adern doesn't need SC, I can only see that as a benefit to Adern.

[Immanuel]

The salesman, who was a very intelligent and nice guy told me he wasn't selling very many Creamware cards because they are were expensive. That was always a problem for them so now when they launched the Xite, it just seemed like more of the same mentality.

And Skoda sells more cars than Rolls Royce does.
And Thoman sells more buhringer microphones than Brauner microphones.

Nothing strange in that

[braincell]

Everyone knows what a Rolls is but when you mention Sonic Core, they never heard of it. It is impossible to be prestigious without fame. By definition prestige and the ability to show off requires envy.

[bill3107]

yes I quite agree with you : Xite like all DSP boards (pro tools, uad, powercore) has always been quite expensive.

without any cash (I have already sold music gear to feed my children!) I would go for second hand baords and then buy the plugins I need. But when it comes to Soniccore 14 dsp board you will find out that they are hard to find and they are still sold at 700 euros. I now think that paying 2600/2800 euros for the equiv of 10x14dsp + preamp + mobility + plugin transfer is not so expensive eventually. Of course, you need cash for that + utility. I would stick to my quad PC system otherwise.

Just try to mix a whole project with a powercre x8 .... quite difficult actually. that means you will have to add extra money for a second one = 2500/3000 euros .... latency, no preamp, no converters, almost no synth...

The same happens to UAD : you will need 2 or 3 UAD if you want to rely on this system for mixing (again, there are very good plugins too)... no preamp again, no converters either...

I think this Xite-1 ( ) is a launching product. I do need more power right now that's why i need this Xite-1. Without enough cash it is easy to get the right plugins and transfer them later if Xite-2 is more affordable.

When it comes to strategy, I think Soniccore is focusing its endevours and money and time on the hardware and on the plugins that will run on it right now. It is time to launch it as there is no real competitor. Can you imagine magazines reviews dealing with this new product ? Mobility has become very important in 2008 and power too (as all the extra power is eaten by the vsti for example). Creamware was in lack of fame. Soniccore has meant new product in a short time.... that can help a lot ! Remember that only few soniccore customers attend this forum. I know at least 6/7 persons in my town using creamware/soniccore stuff that do not even know Z ... Beleiev it or not, only Soniccore staff knows who are the customers, what are the purchase habits and where are the main target to aim at

Soniccore has improved both marketing and communication. Of course Holger D. is not F. Hund but I do prefer a technician involved in developpement rather than a politician. But that's just my point of view ...

I am happy to share with you and many on Z points of view that help us and newbies to chose the right product to make music.... that's what gathers all of us around the world ...

Jo

[braincell]

Why can't Sonic Core make the modules run without Scope or Excite?

I think they want to force people to buy something. You can get a Quadcore with a lot of RAM now. After Quadcore, there will be 8 core with more RAM and so on. At some point, you do not need DSP chips. There are tons of affordable and many quality audio and midi interfaces. That is not what we need. All we need is the software. Again (my opinion).

Power doesn't matter because once you burn an audio track, you unload your modules and all your power is free again. There is a feature "Freeze VSTi", it turns VSTi tracks into audio then you can undo it.

Electronic music is a recording art. We don't play live, that is for guitar bands. The Xite is a live product for people who don't play live.

[Shroomz~>]

Braincell, you mean you don't subscribe to upgrading your 8-10 year old Pulsar card/s, but subscribe to upgrading to quad & 8 core PC hardware? Way to go! Right, building a new PC isn't THAT expensive really, but it IS if you do it every 2 years like the manufacturers would have you believe you need to do.

[braincell]

I build a new computer ever 5-10 years and I am due. I can do one or the other. I could build a new computer, or buy an Xite. I can not afford both. When I build a new computer, it will benefit all my applications not just Scope, so in my case, the Xite would not be a wise choice.

[Shroomz~>]

Well it's your choice, wise or not, but I can tell you for sure that in 3 years your new PC hardware will be outdated & left in the murky shadows of the next PC spec bling, while XITE-1 will be tough for anyone to rival for ANOTHER 10 years. At least, that's my viewpoint on this subject.

[bill3107]

Yes, in your case may be not indeed. But many people would love to buy an Xite for sure.

DSP vs CPU ? If you have nothing against freezing and bouncing then you may be right in some situations. But do you use samples/streaming, vsti and are your working on big projects ? A cpu of one sole computer (even a quad, cos a plugin cannot work on several cores, which is possible with dsps) cannot handle all the tasks .... ANd as softawre are increasingly powerfull, this problem will remain. I agree with shroomz : Xite will last and is an hardware investment. Let's see the price of second hand 14 dsp boards. These PCI boards are even better rated than old Pro tools systems !!!!

Furthermore Xite will be considered as more reliable than a computer for live ... All this makes me think Xite can become very attractive for professinnals. Eventually, this interface will use express card slots (for laptop) which is faster than firewire...And considering the power of laptops (less power than a deskstop), ading DSPs is a great idea if you need mobility... This product has something new : power, tools, comprehsnive mobile studio. This can help a lot when it comes to fame. Just a matter of priority.

what would be your choice for a mobile system ? Brand, model, price ? That could help some people here. RME interfaces are quite good and offer preamp but they do not have DSPs so the power problem remains.

[pollux]

I think they want to force people to buy something.

False.. They don't force anyone to buy anything. They sell hardware with the software that makes it work. If you don't like one or the other, then you can get any other solution on the market.

You can get a Quadcore with a lot of RAM now. After Quadcore, there will be 8 core with more RAM and so on. At some point, you do not need DSP chips.

DSP chips allow to do things that the QC doesn't. Reliable clocking for instance. I'll keep the sound / algo quality discussion for another time. CPUs and DSP chips are intended to do different things.. It's like saying that because your car has a bigger water pump than before you don't need the steering assistance pump anymore!

There are tons of affordable and many quality audio and midi interfaces. That is not what we need. All we need is the software

If you just need the software, then go native and use VSTis, and use the interfaces you like. VSTis are not suitable for MY needs, so please don't state what WE need from YOUR single point of view

Electronic music is a recording art. We don't play live, that is for guitar bands. The Xite is a live product for people who don't play live.

I've a guitar band and play live, and with a laptop, an XITE-1 and 1 or 2 A16u I can do everything I need on a stage from effects to mixing to recording to sending to PA... Don't even need the amps onstage anymore... Again, please don't use WEwhen you should use I.

[bill3107]

yes we agree ... heu I agree 100% ! ... just kidding ... Yes, Xite is to become a live weapon. I tend to think that's one of the main target of this product. I do not play live but when it comes to invest in music gear i tend to think about future needs (4/5 years). And mobility is a strength. Let's say someone looking for a good audio interface for his laptop will think about Xite for sure (at least will read reviews and will ask for some information) .... I am not saying averybody will buy it but many people will have to face the truth : there is no real competitor in 2008 ! So please Soniccore, take your time and release Xite when it is its time....